do you think capitalism will fail? If so, what will replace it?

[PlatinumGold]

Originally posted by: WinstonSmith

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Schadenfroh
Pure Capitalism is a very bad thing

Gawd forbid we allow people to be free.

I think the point is not that capitalism is a bad thing but living in a society where there are NO restraints could lead to all sorts of things. No safety laws. Unlimited hours and child labor. I don't think those who suffered under those constraints would consider themselves free.

People wouldnt have freedom, except initially, when Darwinism would kick in those better able create a stratified society where upward mobility is supressed. In theory, pure capitalism is not bad, since everyone always has a chance to move up based on hard work. Neither is pure communism a bad thing theoretically, since resources are shared according to need.


Great theories, however it disregards human nature.

Work houses, and mills went away because there were limits set on what businesses could do. If those means were removed, greed would be unchecked, and you as well as most other would have no recourse.

You can make an argument for different regulations, however suggesting that Ken Lay and company are altruists willing to open their coffers if ALL regulation was removed, then I would disagree.

Oh btw, hows the nose?

anyone see A Beautiful mind??

Russel Crowes character made a pretty important contribution to economic thought when he introduced what has come to be known as the game theory model, that often times cooperation yields better results for more people than a competitive model. unfortunately it's also not human nature, again and again it has been proven that people do NO cooperate.

game theory aka prisoners dilemma.

capitalism at it's base has the assumption that people will chose to compete over cooperate. communism has as it's base assumption that people will choose to cooperate over compete.

if there was a way to deal with freeloaders and power abusers communism is the more ideal theory, unfortunately there isn't.

again, if anyone remembers the movie and the scene with the guys and girls can see how cooperation is soo much better than competition.

5 girls 4 guys, 1 very attractive girl and other girls average. if all 4 guys compete for the attention of the 1 very attractive girl, the other 4 girls will be pissed and leave, if the 4 guys each pick and focus on one girl, NOT the 1 very attractive one, then all 4 have a chance at getting laid, whereas if all 4 had competed only for the 1 very attractive girl, all 4 would probably have been shut down.

 

[isaacmacdonald]

Originally posted by: Schadenfroh
Pure Capitalism is a very bad thing

Not really. The corporate state is much more dangerous.

As to the original question, american capitalism itself may not fail, but given the imperial nature of the US, I do think some kind of substantial collapse is imminent. At this point in time I think we're slowly evolving into a more socialized system.

 

[PlatinumGold]

Originally posted by: isaacmacdonald

Originally posted by: Schadenfroh
Pure Capitalism is a very bad thing

Not really. The corporate state is much more dangerous.

As to the original question, american capitalism itself may not fail, but given the imperial nature of the US, I do think some kind of substantial collapse is imminent. At this point in time I think we're slowly evolving into a more socialized system.

again, i asked before but how is Corporate State a form of capitalism?? to me it looks more like fuedalism than capitalism.

 

[tcsenter]

5 girls 4 guys, 1 very attractive girl and other girls average. if all 4 guys compete for the attention of the 1 very attractive girl, the other 4 girls will be pissed and leave, if the 4 guys each pick and focus on one girl, NOT the 1 very attractive one, then all 4 have a chance at getting laid, whereas if all 4 had competed only for the 1 very attractive girl, all 4 would probably have been shut down.

Exactly. So if you don't mind ugly chicks, communism/socialism is where its at. The one attractive girl, however, is reserved for ranking members of the politburo.

I seem to recall a joke about a Socialist patroning a unionized brothel....

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: tcsenter

5 girls 4 guys, 1 very attractive girl and other girls average. if all 4 guys compete for the attention of the 1 very attractive girl, the other 4 girls will be pissed and leave, if the 4 guys each pick and focus on one girl, NOT the 1 very attractive one, then all 4 have a chance at getting laid, whereas if all 4 had competed only for the 1 very attractive girl, all 4 would probably have been shut down.

Exactly. So if you don't mind ugly chicks, communism/socialism is where its at. The one attractive girl, however, is reserved for ranking members of the politburo.

I seem to recall a joke about a Socialist patroning a unionized brothel....

In this context, unrestrained anything seems to have the same real world result. Perhaps that is because some people are more concerned with using any system for personal gain and power.

 

[isaacmacdonald]

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

Originally posted by: isaacmacdonald

Originally posted by: Schadenfroh
Pure Capitalism is a very bad thing

Not really. The corporate state is much more dangerous.

As to the original question, american capitalism itself may not fail, but given the imperial nature of the US, I do think some kind of substantial collapse is imminent. At this point in time I think we're slowly evolving into a more socialized system.

again, i asked before but how is Corporate State a form of capitalism?? to me it looks more like fuedalism than capitalism.

The fundamental tenants of the corporate state have little to do with capitalism. Nonetheless given that corporations are in fact people with everlasting life, they do compete with each other within a capitalistic framework.

 

[StageLeft]

Probably because the world always changes, but it's definitely the best thing that we have so far. Perhaps a skoorbatorship, in which you do what I say, will take over. That might be for the best.

Every system fails at a point of time. As soon as the system destroys its own foundations or a potent leader emerges, the chances of radical changes rise. Plus, when people are desperate, they often turn towards extremities. Probably something new will come, but I don't think it will be soon.

That's what I'm sayin. In the same vein I find it tragic that some people are so clueless as to think that the US will always be the top dog nation. No nation ever has been top dog forever and no nation ever will. It's very likely that even in this century the US won't be the only superpower. Things _always_ change.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: WinstonSmith

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Schadenfroh
Pure Capitalism is a very bad thing

Gawd forbid we allow people to be free.

I think the point is not that capitalism is a bad thing but living in a society where there are NO restraints could lead to all sorts of things. No safety laws. Unlimited hours and child labor. I don't think those who suffered under those constraints would consider themselves free.

People wouldnt have freedom, except initially, when Darwinism would kick in those better able create a stratified society where upward mobility is supressed. In theory, pure capitalism is not bad, since everyone always has a chance to move up based on hard work. Neither is pure communism a bad thing theoretically, since resources are shared according to need.


Great theories, however it disregards human nature.

Work houses, and mills went away because there were limits set on what businesses could do. If those means were removed, greed would be unchecked, and you as well as most other would have no recourse.

You can make an argument for different regulations, however suggesting that Ken Lay and company are altruists willing to open their coffers if ALL regulation was removed, then I would disagree.

Oh btw, hows the nose?

It is a common fallacy that it took laws to end worker abuse. It did not. Most advances in employee benefits have been voluntary due to competition in labor. There was no law set telling Henry Ford to pay a higher wage and work his employees fewer hours. He did so because it was beneficial to him. The same goes for health insurance, retirement funds and a whole host of other benefits. Competition in labor created these, not a nanny-state government.

Ken Lay broke already existing laws and regulations. It amuses me when people say we need more regulations to enforce the ones we already have.

The nose is still seeping. I was supposed to have the packing taken out this morning, but they are going to leave it in 'till Monday.

 

[Schadenfroh]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: WinstonSmith

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Schadenfroh
Pure Capitalism is a very bad thing

Gawd forbid we allow people to be free.

I think the point is not that capitalism is a bad thing but living in a society where there are NO restraints could lead to all sorts of things. No safety laws. Unlimited hours and child labor. I don't think those who suffered under those constraints would consider themselves free.

People wouldnt have freedom, except initially, when Darwinism would kick in those better able create a stratified society where upward mobility is supressed. In theory, pure capitalism is not bad, since everyone always has a chance to move up based on hard work. Neither is pure communism a bad thing theoretically, since resources are shared according to need.


Great theories, however it disregards human nature.

Work houses, and mills went away because there were limits set on what businesses could do. If those means were removed, greed would be unchecked, and you as well as most other would have no recourse.

You can make an argument for different regulations, however suggesting that Ken Lay and company are altruists willing to open their coffers if ALL regulation was removed, then I would disagree.

Oh btw, hows the nose?

It is a common fallacy that it took laws to end worker abuse. It did not. Most advances in employee benefits have been voluntary due to competition in labor. There was no law set telling Henry Ford to pay a higher wage and work his employees fewer hours. He did so because it was beneficial to him. The same goes for health insurance, retirement funds and a whole host of other benefits. Competition in labor created these, not a nanny-state government.

Ken Lay broke already existing laws and regulations. It amuses me when people say we need more regulations to enforce the ones we already have.

The nose is still seeping. I was supposed to have the packing taken out this morning, but they are going to leave it in 'till Monday.

corporations competing for employees is very good for the people in a capitalists system, but without laws and the ability to enfore those laws you will end up like the people people in "the jungle" when jobs were a lil bit harder to come by

Gawd forbid we allow people to be free

You would not be free, the corporations would rule you

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Schadenfroh

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: WinstonSmith

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Schadenfroh
Pure Capitalism is a very bad thing

Gawd forbid we allow people to be free.

I think the point is not that capitalism is a bad thing but living in a society where there are NO restraints could lead to all sorts of things. No safety laws. Unlimited hours and child labor. I don't think those who suffered under those constraints would consider themselves free.

People wouldnt have freedom, except initially, when Darwinism would kick in those better able create a stratified society where upward mobility is supressed. In theory, pure capitalism is not bad, since everyone always has a chance to move up based on hard work. Neither is pure communism a bad thing theoretically, since resources are shared according to need.


Great theories, however it disregards human nature.

Work houses, and mills went away because there were limits set on what businesses could do. If those means were removed, greed would be unchecked, and you as well as most other would have no recourse.

You can make an argument for different regulations, however suggesting that Ken Lay and company are altruists willing to open their coffers if ALL regulation was removed, then I would disagree.

Oh btw, hows the nose?

It is a common fallacy that it took laws to end worker abuse. It did not. Most advances in employee benefits have been voluntary due to competition in labor. There was no law set telling Henry Ford to pay a higher wage and work his employees fewer hours. He did so because it was beneficial to him. The same goes for health insurance, retirement funds and a whole host of other benefits. Competition in labor created these, not a nanny-state government.

Ken Lay broke already existing laws and regulations. It amuses me when people say we need more regulations to enforce the ones we already have.

The nose is still seeping. I was supposed to have the packing taken out this morning, but they are going to leave it in 'till Monday.

corporations competing for employees is very good for the people in a capitalists system, but without laws and the ability to enfore those laws you will end up like the people people in "the jungle" when jobs were a lil bit harder to come by

Gawd forbid we allow people to be free

You would not be free, the corporations would rule you

I'd like to point out that decades before H Ford came Workers had already organized to combat corporate abuses. "Competition for Labour" is a response to Unionization, not a concept naturally born out of Capitalism.

 

[SilentZero]

Capitalism won't fail here in the US. Im sure there will be additional laws passed in future years to ensure capitalisms success, because really...what are the alternatives.

 

[Maverick]

I feel like seeing if anyone else has more to say...lots of good discussion so far...bump

BTW more corporate BS in the news today...Best buy and other retailers are going after sites like Fat Wallet for showing the prices for Black Friday sale items. Apparently they think it falls under the DMCA.