do you think capitalism will fail? If so, what will replace it?

[Rainsford]

If you look at the progress of human history, economic and social freedom has been on the increase with almost every successive change of government and economic ideals. That is the direction we are heading in. And before anyone says it, this doesn't mean we are moving towards communism since it is certainly NOT about freedom, either social or economical.

The only place we have to go from republic/captialism that follows the trend of thousands of years would be to true democracy and true capitalism. Right now, our goverment and corporations are far from free. Money from companies funds the elected officials, and thus the governmental process.

However, that being said, I don't believe it will happen for a long time. Everyone can't make decisions together, it's just not possible. There will always have to be a group of people, elected or otherwise, that make governing type decisions. The only place we have to go is that the government will stop listening to companies and instead listen more to their constituents, and I believe that will happen eventually. The government is a lot less in bed with business than it used to be. Just look at history if you don't believe me. It's happening, and this being the information age, it's only going to happen faster. It used to be easy to hide the reasons for behavior by the government, but it's getting harder and harder to keep secrets any more.

 

[Ausm]

Originally posted by: fjorner
capitalism has worked for 200+ years. no sense that it will 'fail'

Communism failed in the Soviet Union in less then 100 years

Ausm

 

[Maverick]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

The only place we have to go from republic/captialism that follows the trend of thousands of years would be to true democracy and true capitalism. Right now, our goverment and corporations are far from free. Money from companies funds the elected officials, and thus the governmental process.

Good post...but how do you define true democracy and true capitalism? Do you define it as a world without money going to the government? This could work if the aquisition of wealth is unimportant because anyone can have anything and therefore material wealth becomes worthless. Sounds like star trek...idealistic...but probably not realistic.

 

[smashp]

Originally posted by: Shiva112

Originally posted by: Rainsford

The only place we have to go from republic/captialism that follows the trend of thousands of years would be to true democracy and true capitalism. Right now, our goverment and corporations are far from free. Money from companies funds the elected officials, and thus the governmental process.

Good post...but how do you define true democracy and true capitalism? Do you define it as a world without money going to the government? This could work if the aquisition of wealth is unimportant because anyone can have anything and therefore material wealth becomes worthless. Sounds like star trek...idealistic...but probably not realistic.

I think he meant True Democracy in the Sence that everything is voted on by citizens instead of decided by Representitives who are corupted .

True capitalism is a system that punishes coruption in the system. Right now it seams the system rewards Coruption most of the Time.

If we can take money and influence to politicians out of Corporations hands and return it to the People ( The Ones our Constitution Intended to have the power) we would be Much Better Off.


But I am Bias, I see Corporations as a Great evil To democracy if given Too much Power. They are Totalitarian in Nature with a Ceo As a little Puppet Dictator Kept in Check By " His Buddies" mutually apointed to the Board.

 

[tcsenter]

Capitalism won't fail because corporations are increasingly controlling our rights, it will fail because sustained affluence and decadence will increasingly warp the perspectives and mentality of each successive generation until they think its their constitutionally protected innate human right to do whatever they hell they want, whenever the hell they want, and anyone who tries to suggest otherwise is obviously a fascist (i.e. anti-fascism).

Witness the mentality demonstrated in the first post, among others:

Its my right because...umm...I don't have to explain myself to you! Who are you to question my rights! Its my right because I damned well said it was. Its my right because I want it! That should be good enough.

 

[Torghn]

Capitalism won't fail. Instead we'll continue our shift to socialism. Once we are more socialistic than capitalistic, our economy will collapse.

 

[Maverick]

Originally posted by: tcsenter
Capitalism won't fail because corporations are increasingly controlling our rights, it will fail because sustained affluence and decadence will increasingly warp the perspectives and mentality of each successive generation until they think its their constitutionally protected innate human right to do whatever they hell they want, whenever the hell they want, and anyone who tries to suggest otherwise is obviously a fascist (i.e. anti-fascism).

For the 10th goddamn time, I'm not advocating piracy!! I'm questioning the methods used to curb it. I swear some of you are so hard set in your "faith" in the law that you don't see corruption when its staring you right in the face.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Torghn
Capitalism won't fail. Instead we'll continue our shift to socialism. Once we are more socialistic than capitalistic, our economy will collapse.

I agree. We are already seeing that now, with socialist agendas like Social Security and socialized medicine greatly threatening the long-term viability of our economy.
The problem with socialism, and why it will never succeed as a viable economic system, is that it adherents simply do not understand that there is no such thing as a free lunch, not even for government. Funding MUST come from somewhere.

Capitalism is (IMO) the best economic system out there. The greatest failing in capitalism has always been the ignorance of the average consumer. If the consumer would only recognize their power in the system and assert themselves accordingly, we would not have all the problems that we do. Ah, well... nothing's perfect and caveat emptor (if only).

In response to the OP, I feel I should add that the issue is not that corporations control our rights more than the government. Quite the opposite, government has grown out of control to the point where it is merging its identity with that of the corporations. Both have a conflict of interest into themselves you might say, the power of the almighty tax dollar.

 

[fumbduck]

yay for communism! gogogogo

 

[upsciLLion]

Nobody has suggested the second coming of Christ as the next form of government?

ups

 

[fjorner]

Originally posted by: cr4zymofo

Originally posted by: fjorner
capitalism has worked for 200+ years. no sense that it will 'fail'

Throghout the human history, no civilizations or empires last forever. History will repeat itself. As for what will replace it, I don't know.

Check please: Capitalism is NOT a civilization or an empire.

Capitalism is an economic engine, a set of finance laws, and 'the invisible hand' called the market.

The MARKET will never just go away. People won't stop consuming.

 

[fjorner]

Originally posted by: cr4zymofo

Originally posted by: fjorner
capitalism has worked for 200+ years. no sense that it will 'fail'

Throghout the human history, no civilizations or empires last forever. History will repeat itself. As for what will replace it, I don't know.

Check please: Capitalism is NOT a civilization or an empire.

Capitalism is an economic engine, a set of finance laws, and 'the invisible hand' called the market.

The MARKET will never just go away. People won't stop consuming.

 

[Danman]

Originally posted by: upsciLLion
Nobody has suggested the second coming of Christ as the next form of government?

ups

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: fjorner

Originally posted by: cr4zymofo

Originally posted by: fjorner
capitalism has worked for 200+ years. no sense that it will 'fail'

Throghout the human history, no civilizations or empires last forever. History will repeat itself. As for what will replace it, I don't know.

Check please: Capitalism is NOT a civilization or an empire.

Capitalism is an economic engine, a set of finance laws, and 'the invisible hand' called the market.

The MARKET will never just go away. People won't stop consuming.

"Capitalism" as we know it requires Civilization. Most past economic systems had forms of Free Markets, but Capitalism is more than just Free Markets.

 

[PlatinumGold]

Originally posted by: Shiva112
All this corporate crap with the RIAA and MPAA got me thinking...corporations are starting to control our rights much more than the government has in recent years. I feel this is a direct result of capitalism. To put it mildly, when money talks, bullsh!t walks.

Obviously this kind of system can't work forever...every ideology has its time and eventually is replaced by something else...theocracy, feudalism, imperialism, communism...all had their times. I don't think that perfection is the ultimate goal...the ideology that civilization was most prepared for was the one that succeeded at the time. You can't expect medieval peasants to understand our capitalistic culture, just as we would quicky get fed up with their feudalism.

What do you guys think will replace capitalism?

how is a society controlled by Corporations anything other than a Feudal society?? that is NOT the goal of capitlism, it is not the ideal model that is capitalism. true capitalism says that as freedom of information increases, as barriers to trade decreases, income distribution will even out and the disparity between the rich and poor will decrease (it will never go away but it will decrease). when you get to the point of corporations ocntrolling society, you have reached the failure of the capitalistic model.

 

[Soybomb]

Originally posted by: Viper GTS
Controlling your rights?

Since when is it your right to steal music & movies?

I'm not reading the rest of that until you fix that opening.

Viper GTS

I think the opening is fine. As a very basic example why is it illegal for me to do what is necessary to watch a dvd under linux? If I paid for the dvd I feel like I should be able to watch it on a toaster if I want to and come up with a way to do so.

 

[OokiiNeko]

My right to print Mickey Mouse on a T-shirt and not have to pay a royalty for it was taken away not too long ago.

Sure Congress voted the change, but we all know who paid for it.

 

[Schadenfroh]

Pure Capitalism is a very bad thing

 

[PlatinumGold]

Originally posted by: Schadenfroh
Pure Capitalism is a very bad thing

and you know this HOW??

we've never seen pure capitalism in action, so what do you base this opinion on?

we've never seen pure socialism or communism in action either.

 

[tcsenter]

For the 10th goddamn time, I'm not advocating piracy!! I'm questioning the methods used to curb it. I swear some of you are so hard set in your "faith" in the law that you don't see corruption when its staring you right in the face.

I apologize if I mischaracterized your position.

But unfortunately, the one minor thing about those opposed ("all this corporate crap") to RIAA and MPAA is, they don't have a proverbial leg to stand on. So any time I see someone make a 'freedom-is-dead-here-come-the-concentration-camps' kind of prophecy based on RIAA or the MPAA, I have no other choice but to [quite reasonably] conclude the person suffers from a fairly significant character flaw.

 

[IEatChildren]

I vote for a new totalitarian fascism!

 

[Atlantean]

Communism

 

[imported_Mike]

Originally posted by: fjorner
capitalism has worked for 200+ years. no sense that it will 'fail'

hahahaha, thanks, I needed a good laugh.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: Schadenfroh
Pure Capitalism is a very bad thing

Gawd forbid we allow people to be free.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Schadenfroh
Pure Capitalism is a very bad thing

Gawd forbid we allow people to be free.

I think the point is not that capitalism is a bad thing but living in a society where there are NO restraints could lead to all sorts of things. No safety laws. Unlimited hours and child labor. I don't think those who suffered under those constraints would consider themselves free.

People wouldnt have freedom, except initially, when Darwinism would kick in those better able create a stratified society where upward mobility is supressed. In theory, pure capitalism is not bad, since everyone always has a chance to move up based on hard work. Neither is pure communism a bad thing theoretically, since resources are shared according to need.


Great theories, however it disregards human nature.

Work houses, and mills went away because there were limits set on what businesses could do. If those means were removed, greed would be unchecked, and you as well as most other would have no recourse.

You can make an argument for different regulations, however suggesting that Ken Lay and company are altruists willing to open their coffers if ALL regulation was removed, then I would disagree.

Oh btw, hows the nose?