Do you seriously think Obama's bowing is that big a deal?

[Atreus21]

I don't know if anyone here is complaining about this.

I think the criticism being leveled at Obama for bowing to the Japanese emperor or to whatever middle eastern president is just plain silly. There's no weakness inherent in showing kind respect where there is no explicit enmity, especially to one's elders, even if you are the president. Bush showed respect, Obama does the same.

I hope none of my fellow conservatives here seriously condemn this.

 

[yllus]

There's a roundup article at The Week about the "incident". It seems like there really is very little talk about it. It's strictly blog/forum rant fluff.

 

[Atreus21]

There's a roundup article at The Week about the "incident". It seems like there really is very little talk about it. It's strictly blog/forum rant fluff.

Then frankly, that's a relief. It's embarrassing to seize upon so trivial an act.

 

[fskimospy]

They most certainly do seriously condemn it. What I don't get is why they do it. When you go after someone for a bow you look petty, partisan, and a little crazed. There are so many things Obama is doing that you can go after from a conservative position (deficits, federal regulations, WOT strategy, whatever) that choosing such a small thing seems really silly.

It's probably counter productive in the long run too, because when someone see's a guy freak out about how Obama greeted someone, they are probably less likely to take more reasonable criticism seriously.

 

[Ausm]

Interesting post by Dick Armey's love child.

 

[Atreus21]

Interesting post by Dick Armey's love child.

wha?

 

[Genx87]

They most certainly do seriously condemn it. What I don't get is why they do it. When you go after someone for a bow you look petty, partisan, and a little crazed. There are so many things Obama is doing that you can go after from a conservative position (deficits, federal regulations, WOT strategy, whatever) that choosing such a small thing seems really silly.

It's probably counter productive in the long run too, because when someone see's a guy freak out about how Obama greeted someone, they are probably less likely to take more reasonable criticism seriously.

I can certainly see both sides of the argument. When you bow to a monarch you are below them. As POTUS you are certainly at the same level. Personally I think the POTUS is above a monarch.

Will I go bonkers over it? No, it really isnt the end of the world. But IMO he shouldnt be doing it either.

 

[Jaskalas]

We already knew of the President’s stupidity before he and his wife broke protocol on multiple occasions, so it isn’t much of a surprise. Calling it for what it is does not denote its importance. Yes it is a minor thing.

Still, you keep asking and we’ll keep talking about it. That is as important as it gets.

 

[Atreus21]

I can certainly see both sides of the argument. When you bow to a monarch you are below them. As POTUS you are certainly at the same level. Personally I think the POTUS is above a monarch.

Will I go bonkers over it? No, it really isnt the end of the world. But IMO he shouldnt be doing it either.

I seriously think you're reading too deeply into it. In reality, yes, the president is probably more powerful than any other chief of state on earth, but there's nothing lost and potentially much gained from not visibly exploiting your power.

It's kind of like being a gentleman to a woman. A gentleman's code presupposes at least a physical superiority to women, and the deliberate restraint of pressing this advantage.

Maybe that's untrue, I'm not sure. I just don't believe small courtesies carry much harm, and if they do, it's because the other guy is a jackass.

 

[ayabe]

Yes, I'm all about appearances that are disassociated from reality.

 

[Genx87]

I seriously think you're reading too deeply into it. In reality, yes, the president is probably more powerful than any other chief of state on earth, but there's nothing lost and potentially much gained from not visibly exploiting your power.

It's kind of like being a gentleman to a woman. A gentleman's code presupposes at least a physical superiority to women, and the deliberate restraint of pressing this advantage.

Maybe that's untrue, I'm not sure. I just don't believe small courtesies carry much harm, and if they do, it's because the other guy is a jackass.

There isnt any reading into it. When you bow to a monarch you are indicating you are their subject. That means you are below them. POTUS is not below a monarch.

Like I said earlier though. It isnt the end of the world. I personally wont lose sleep over it. Just think it is silly of him to be doing it and should knock it off.

 

[Fenixgoon]

i'm sure he did it out of a sign of respect. for the people who are flipping shit, we have far bigger problems. this is the type of partisan bullshit i hate that comes with politics. the "losing" side becomes a whiny little bitch and tries to point out anything their opponents do in order to discredit them.

if politicians actually cared about this country, instead of their own power, we'd be in a lot better shape.

 

[Atreus21]

Yes, I'm all about appearances that are disassociated from reality.

Appearances make reality. Obama, in reality, respects other people, even those who are weaker.

 

[Atreus21]

There isnt any reading into it. When you bow to a monarch you are indicating you are their subject. That means you are below them. POTUS is not below a monarch.

Like I said earlier though. It isnt the end of the world. I personally wont lose sleep over it. Just think it is silly of him to be doing it and should knock it off.

What should he have done for the monarch? Shook his hand? Any sign of greeting whatsoever? A monarch might take any sign of respect as a sign of deference.

 

[Genx87]

What should he have done for the monarch? Shook his hand? Any sign of greeting whatsoever? A monarch might take any sign of respect as a sign of deference.

How have previous presidents greeted a monarch? A handshake is good enough. If they have a problem with it tough shit. POTUS doesnt need to bow to show a sign of respect to people who inherit their position via birth.

 

[Atreus21]

How have previous presidents greeted a monarch? A handshake is good enough. If they have a problem with it tough shit. POTUS doesnt need to bow to show a sign of respect to people who inherit their position via birth.

I still think it can not possibly do any harm, while potentially it can ease relationships.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Maybe the poll should read:
1) Outraged over the bow
2) Outraged over those that are outraged by the bow
3) Non-issue
I vote non-issue.

 

[ayabe]

I think I understand the winger outrage on this, finally - I get it now!!

"Now we know why Mr. Obama stunned everyone with an earlier similar bow to King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia, only the bow to the Japanese emperor was far more flamboyant, a sign of a really deep sense of inferiority. He was only practicing his bow in Riyadh. Sometimes rituals are learned with difficulty. It took Bill Clinton months to learn how to return a military salute worthy of a commander in chief; like any draft dodger, he kept poking a thumb in his eye until he finally got it. Mr. Obama, on the other hand, seems right at home now giving a wow of a bow. This is not the way an American president impresses evildoers that he's strong, tough and decisive, that America is not to be trifled with. "
************************
"But Mr. Obama, unlike his predecessors, likely knows no better, and many of those around him, true children of the grungy '60s, are contemptuous of custom. Cutting America down to size is what attracts them to "hope" for "change." It's no fault of the president that he has no natural instinct or blood impulse for what the America of "the 57 states" is about. He was sired by a Kenyan father, born to a mother attracted to men of the Third World and reared by grandparents in Hawaii, a paradise far from the American mainstream. "

Pretty much the most chickenshit thing I've seen in a while - this is the perfect embodiment of right-wing insecurity and faux machismo - with a spritz of racism at the end.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news...-bows-the-nation-cringes/?feat=home_headlines

 

[Genx87]

I still think it can not possibly do any harm, while potentially it can ease relationships.

Well I agree. But I still dont think he should be doing it. If you can understand what I am saying.

 

[Atreus21]

Well I agree. But I still dont think he should be doing it. If you can understand what I am saying.

I would understand more readily if he was doing it to assholes like Ahmedinejead or Castro or Chavez. But Japan, at least, is a close ally.

 

[Jaskalas]

Maybe the poll should read:
1) Outraged over the bow
2) Outraged over those that are outraged by the bow
3) Non-issue
I vote non-issue.

Drawn by those lines I'd have to vote Non-issue as I am not outraged. Yet under the current poll, I think it is a sign of weakness to not comprehend proper protocol.

 

[Athena]

How have previous presidents greeted a monarch?

They bowed. There are archive photos of almost every previous president bowing to foreign heads of state. Why is this an issue now?

 

[Jaskalas]

They bowed. There are archive photos of almost every previous president bowing to foreign heads of state. Why is this an issue now?

I have not read that argument before. If it is true, as you have not yet proven, then it would certainly change things.

Still, the New York Times would disagree as evidence to the contrary.

New York Times
"IF I see another king, I think I shall bite him," Teddy Roosevelt once growled. Offered that opportunity with the Japanese equivalent last week, Bill Clinton turned out to have had quite something else in mind.

It wasn't a bow, exactly. But Mr. Clinton came close. He inclined his head and shoulders forward, he pressed his hands together. It lasted no longer than a snapshot, but the image on the South Lawn was indelible: an obsequent President, and the Emperor of Japan.

"Presidents don't bow, and Emperors don't toast," one official said. "So this was a little bit like the cultures meeting each other halfway."

 

[cliftonite]

I have not read that argument before. If it is true, as you have not yet proven, then it would certainly change things.

Still, the New York Times would disagree as evidence to the contrary.

Eisenhower bowing:
http://lefarkins.blogspot.com/2009/11/dwight-d-eisenhower-bowing-hour.html
Bush bowing:
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/pictures/ZZ72682359.jpg
Nixon bowing:
http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/5c8f4325f5d81345_landing

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

It's showing of respect and honoring a custom that is older than time. No big deal.