Do you run a UPS?

[pyjujiop]

Yes. I've used the same APC unit for about 10 years, changing the battery three times along the way. The unit itself still does the job as well as it did when I bought it.

 

[Remobz]

Directly opposite here. Most will have plenty of space on 1 hand to count the powerlosses in their entire life

Lucky you Sir The beauty of living in a developed Country indeed.

In my Country, we get power outages often every month. But, the real killer are strong power spikes that occur almost every week. Its so bad that companies here will NOT sell you a computer without buying a UPS first because of warranty purposes.

Like I said, only a FOOL would not use a UPS here.

 

[Red Squirrel]

This +1. I don't get the users who claim that all a UPS does is keep the PC up over a short brownout. Its most important function is line conditioning so that those power ripples do not hit your power supply on a continual basis.

Pure sine wave is also necessary on your UPS with the newer PSUs offering PFC.

That's mostly my primary reason as well. We don't get that many outages but during storms and what not it's possible to get a 1-2 second flicker. Those are the worse since they shut down the system hard and immediately supply power to it again. While it can be set in the bios to not turn back on I've seen instances where the flicker was so fast it just causes it to reboot. This can't be good on the system.

The outages we do get are usually planed. The main road near my area is under construction every summer and sometimes they need to turn off the power for a few hours. In my neighborhood there's a few outages per summer between construction and wind. (lot of trees here)

I've also read about these PFC power supplies. Guess it's definitely something to watch out for when buying a power supply especially if you plan to run your stuff on dirty power like a low end generator or inverter.

 

[dac7nco]

A Cyberpower Pure Sinewave 1500W powers my desktop and NAS, but not my speakers, printer or fridge. I fried several tons of data using an older UPS on my newer stuff, and it was a mistake which took months and dollars to correct.

Daimon

The UPS also made me put a 20A circuit... with Gold and Platinum PSUs, I may not have.

 

[alkemyst]

APC SmartUPS 1400 which IMHO is one of the best bang for bucks ever. I use a APC ES500 or 600 for my cable modem and e4200. The cable modem already has it's own battery in it as well.

Keep in mind everyone, UPS's require maintenance. Down here battery replacements yearly are not uncommon. If you wait to long the batteries swell and can be impossible to remove.

 

[alkemyst]

IRT line conditioning...down here during storm season my UPS logs show constant swaps to battery for seconds at a time.

 

[notposting]

I have 4 or 5 around the house. Behind the TV keeping a switch, HTPC, Verizon extender all up and running. Basement keeping a couple desktops going. Plus keeping switch, server, router, tuner, modem going. Upstairs keeping Media center extender and TV going.

Couple more I need to replace the batteries in.

 

[Remobz]

I have 4 or 5 around the house. Behind the TV keeping a switch, HTPC, Verizon extender all up and running. Basement keeping a couple desktops going. Plus keeping switch, server, router, tuner, modem going. Upstairs keeping Media center extender and TV going.

Couple more I need to replace the batteries in.

How often do you replace batteries?

How do you test to see if you need to replace them?

 

[Red Squirrel]

How often do you replace batteries?

How do you test to see if you need to replace them?

Once in a while it's a good idea to run a test cycle. Turn off the power bar or other switched device that it's plugged into and see how long it takes before it starts beeping fast. Batteries don't normally suddenly die they just degrade so with 3 year old batteries a UPS can still get you past at least the short power bumps. When your PC shuts down hard the minute there's a little power bump then it's a good time to change the batteries.

Also don't buy from APC, they overcharge ridiculously. See if you have an electrical shop in town that sells lead acid batteries and just bring in the old ones to get a match in size and AH. Chances are the battery they sell you will look exactly like the APC one but with a different label. Lead acid batteries are not really cost effective to buy online because of their weight, so best to try to find a local place.

 

[N4g4rok]

I'm looking in to get one, but I wasn't real sure what to choose for the wattage.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Personally I say 1000va or more. Keep in mind that 1000va is actually 600w not 1000w. A typical pc draws maybe 200w or so at most including monitors but you don't want to fully max it out anyway so it's good to oversize.

 

[Batmeat]

Yes, APC 1200-RS .....

Those of you who don't claiming that you only lose a little bit of data apparently have never had a power shut off that corrupted your hard, fried your mobo, or ruined some other component in your computer. Once that happens you'll buy a UPS.

 

[thefordmccord]

I live in the sticks, so I have a power blip a couple times a week. I have an APC 1000 on each machine and some small APC units on each DirecTV box. It used to suck when the power would flicker and it would take 10 minutes for the satellite box to come back online. I replace the batteries in mine every two years.

 

[PCTC2]

Yes I do. I have 4.

I have an APC BR1500LCD 865W/1500VA for my two servers (Dual E5520 server and E3-1220 server) that is great. It has kicked in a few times due to power outages/bad power in my apartment. Last year a huge power outage hit San Diego for a day. I was lucky my server went down cleanly.

I also have 2 CyberPower LCD UPSes (a 600W/1000VA and a 810W/1350VA) that run my other servers (network gateway/firewall and my Mac Mini Server and my ZFS storage server). They're alright and they work well. I know they work because of the power outages. The one powering my firewall kept it up for 90 minutes.

My last one is a CyberPower basic 425W that powers my ATT U-verse box and a SFF box. The problem is my ATT U-verse box connects to the rest of the boxes and servers over power-line (because it is in the kitchen. The computers are not.). If the power goes out, so does the link, so to check on the boxes, I have a small PC hooked up wirelessly to the rest (the Access Points are also on one of the UPSes) to make sure they go down cleanly.

 

[Blain]

* Whole house (breaker box) protection = Delta LA-302 surge arrestor & CA-302R surge capacitor
* Main PC = CyberPower 1350AVR
* HTPC & LCD TV = CyberPower 1500AVR

not at home, I haven't experienced a power outtage or anything in the last decade so I don't really see the need for one.

10 years with no power blackouts, brownouts or surges?
What device are you using to monitor your incoming power in order to make such a statement?

 

[Broheim]

10 years with no power blackouts, brownouts or surges?
What device are you using to monitor your incoming power in order to make such a statement?

I can't say with 100% certainty that brownouts and surges haven't occured, but I can say that it has never affected me in any way and I have never seen any evidence of said things occuring.

I do remember the last black out, which must have been back in either '02 or '03, I was working on a school project at the time it occured (I was plugging in my laptop the second it happened, we joked that my laptop was so powerful that it sucked up all the juice eventhough it was obviously a coincidence).

I live in a small wealthy country with a highly developed infrastructure, so it's really not that surprising.

 

[DigitalWolf]

I can't say with 100% certainty that brownouts and surges haven't occured, but I can say that it has never affected me in any way and I have never seen any evidence of said things occuring.

I do remember the last black out, which must have been back in either '02 or '03, I was working on a school project at the time it occured (I was plugging in my laptop the second it happened, we joked that my laptop was so powerful that it sucked up all the juice eventhough it was obviously a coincidence).

I live in a small wealthy country with a highly developed infrastructure, so it's really not that surprising.

Well to be honest if you are using a laptop or you replace electronics often (upgrade desktop etc) you likely wouldn't notice anyway. Mostly you would end up with a shortened lifespan on some electronics.. this is why if you upgrade often you won't notice. Unless you have serious drops in line voltage (which really shouldn't happen) then you could lose something in one event.


A laptop really only needs a surge protection.


I should say this is just my opinion on the topic.

 

[Eug]

I have a whole house surge suppressor. My neighbour's house got a serious surge - lightning strike - and it knocked out a lot of electronics in his house. The whole house suppressor wouldn't likely be able to handle a lightning strike but it might help in situations where there is a huge surge from a nearby hit and not a direct strike.

I also have UPSes for all of my important equipment, like desktop computers, PVRs, NAS, DSL modem, router, etc. They act as second barriers for surges, line conditioners, and of course battery backups. I'm scared to death of doing firmware backups on equipment for example, if it's not on a UPS.

 

[Anarchist420]

No, I just use a surge protector and I save a lot, just in case the power goes off although it only does maybe 1x/yr except for storms (and then only sometimes). I live in an area with underground wiring, I have 14 gauge copper house wiring, and a good PSU, so I don't think it's really necessary.

I was thinking things with good a PSU would need them less, but I could be mistaken.

 

[2is]

Yeah I don't think a good PSU is going to do much in an outage situation.

 

[westom]

They act as second barriers for surges, line conditioners, and of course battery backups.

A typical UPS does not do and does not claim to do that. Some of the 'dirtiest' power a computer will see comes from a UPS in battery backup mode. Power is 'cleanest' when the UPS connects the computer directly to AC mains.

A UPS is temporary and 'dirtiest' power during a blackout. It even says its surge protection is near zero. Read its specification numbers. Just enough above zero so that advertising can claim 100% protection.

A UPS does not do hardware protection. Temporary and 'dirty' power means data can be saved. Or a firmware upgrade is not corrupted. Due to superior protection already inside electronics, then 'dirtiest' UPS power is ideal power for electronics. That same UPS can be harmful to small electric motors or power strip protectors.

 

[Eug]

A typical UPS does not do and does not claim to do that. Some of the 'dirtiest' power a computer will see comes from a UPS in battery backup mode. Power is 'cleanest' when the UPS connects the computer directly to AC mains.

A UPS is temporary and 'dirtiest' power during a blackout. It even says its surge protection is near zero. Read its specification numbers. Just enough above zero so that advertising can claim 100% protection.

A UPS does not do hardware protection. Temporary and 'dirty' power means data can be saved. Or a firmware upgrade is not corrupted. Due to superior protection already inside electronics, then 'dirtiest' UPS power is ideal power for electronics. That same UPS can be harmful to small electric motors or power strip protectors.

I don't expect the UPS to provide uber clean power while in battery backup mode. However, the UPS units I got for my more important equipment advertise automatic voltage regulation. I don't know how well it works, but that's the advertising for them anyway:

"Automatic Voltage Regulation - AVR technology stabilizes the AC voltage and maintains a safe voltage level without switching to battery-mode. This conserves battery life, and delivers cleaner AC power to connected equipment."

The lower end models don't include this feature.

 

[westom]

"Automatic Voltage Regulation - AVR technology stabilizes the AC voltage and maintains a safe voltage level without switching to battery-mode. This conserves battery life, and delivers cleaner AC power to connected equipment."

The claim is subjective. Suspect the worst. Subjective claims can even prove that Obama is a Martian.

Voltage can drop so low that incandescent bulbs dim to 50% intensity. Perfectly ideal power for electronics. Did they forget to mention that - with numbers? If voltage that low is acceptable, then why would anyone need better voltage regulation? Advertising.

Manipulating people with subjective claims is always fun. What takes the fun out of it? Regulations that demand truth. Legal is to claim most anything as long as numbers get forgotten.

Output of a 120 volt UPS that the manufacturer called a sine wave output. 200 volt square waves with a spike of up to 270 volts. Also ideal power due to how electronics are designed. Did they lie? Of course not. Square waves and spike are only sums of pure sine waves (as was taught in high school math). Another example of how subjective claims can say anything.

Others posted examples of how advertising claims magic. Cleanest power from a UPS is when it connects a computer directly to AC mains. Best AVR is already inside electronic appliances. UPS has one function. To provide temporary and 'dirty' power during a blackout. So that a firmware upgrade need not result in disaster.

BTW, if your 'whole house' protector is minimally sized and properly installed, then it should make even direct lightning strikes irrelevant. No protector (not even a 'whole house') is a barrier to any typically destructive surge.

 

[Eug]

Heh. I swear westom you're everywhere. I've seen your posts on the subject for years now, all over the net. Digitalhome, RedFlagDeals, AnandTech, etc.

 

[westom]

Heh. I swear westom you're everywhere.

I did not write the screenplay that said, "Show me the numbers." Somebody beat me to it.