Do you guys think the punishment fits the crime?

[Brainonska511]

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: Lothar

Originally posted by: mugs
This thread is so full of fail. Academic honesty is not about what you can get away with, or what the professor SHOULD do to prevent people from cheating. Blaming the professor for not changing the questions is not going to help.

It sounds likely that the OP's friend intended this document repository to be used by himself only (at least based on the OP's description). That is what he should tell the people who will be deciding his punishment.

Good luck explaining the solutions book though. They will probably consider that to be enough proof that he cheated.

What's so special about a solution's manual?

My Calculus, Physics, and Organic Chemistry textbooks came with them.
The answers to all exercises, questions, and homework were all there.

Judging by the OP's posts, the solutions book wasn't something his friend was supposed to have. If it's something that came with the student version of the textbook, he should be fine (as long as his document repository appears to be intended for personal use only - otherwise the completed homework assignments will be a problem).

Nothing wrong with getting a solutions manual. I've had professors and TAs that encourage looking through the solutions manual as you do the homework. The solutions manuals, depending on the text and subject, are not always complete or take a lot of shortcuts.

 

[blinky8225]

Originally posted by: Lothar

Originally posted by: mugs
This thread is so full of fail. Academic honesty is not about what you can get away with, or what the professor SHOULD do to prevent people from cheating. Blaming the professor for not changing the questions is not going to help.

It sounds likely that the OP's friend intended this document repository to be used by himself only (at least based on the OP's description). That is what he should tell the people who will be deciding his punishment.

Good luck explaining the solutions book though. They will probably consider that to be enough proof that he cheated.

What's so special about a solution's manual?

My Calculus, Physics, and Organic Chemistry textbooks came with them.
The answers to all exercises, questions, and homework were all there.

I agree. It seems more like a copyright violation than anything else.

 

[Gooberlx2]

Originally posted by: Brainonska511

Originally posted by: PhaZe
I agree eLui. Your post reminds me of the IEEE organization at my university. They attract new members by offering solutions and old course material to paid IEEE members. They always state this during their meetings for new members and they have several faculty members in there that never say anything about that.

My friend's site was just a directory. It had a folder with sub folders for each class. Nothing like a blog or an actual site with options or interface.

If it was just a directory, I don't see the big deal. It wasn't like he created a website and advertised that he had all this available coursework that people could take a look at.

Agreed. The friend should prepare a statement, explanation and demonstration of how Google and robots work, such that material not meant to be advertised or public can become searchable. He should also accept partial fault for not having some sort of access protection.

There does seem to some confusion about how this work was obtained. I had the assumption this was work from a course he took previously. Is it a course he's currently in? Is it material he obtained because the prof left his own webpage open? Was it material given to him via email, syllabus, etc.. via the prof or TA? Is it his own study material?

 

[imported_Imp]

Stupid for leaving a trail.

Some of my professors in engineering completely recycled the past year's material, and personally posted solutions to past year tests plus solutions on the course website. The engineering library at my school supposedly stored copies of past exams/tests too.

However, everyone knew that labs and tests were available from past year students. We had a common room and lab for students of all years, so if you asked, you could get it.

 

[PhaZe]

Originally posted by: Gooberlx2

Originally posted by: Brainonska511

Originally posted by: PhaZe
I agree eLui. Your post reminds me of the IEEE organization at my university. They attract new members by offering solutions and old course material to paid IEEE members. They always state this during their meetings for new members and they have several faculty members in there that never say anything about that.

My friend's site was just a directory. It had a folder with sub folders for each class. Nothing like a blog or an actual site with options or interface.

If it was just a directory, I don't see the big deal. It wasn't like he created a website and advertised that he had all this available coursework that people could take a look at.

Agreed. The friend should prepare a statement, explanation and demonstration of how Google and robots work, such that material not meant to be advertised or public can become searchable. He should also accept partial fault for not having some sort of access protection.

There does seem to some confusion about how this work was obtained. I had the assumption this was work from a course he took previously. Is it a course he's currently in? Is it material he obtained because the prof left his own webpage open? Was it material given to him via email, syllabus, etc.. via the prof or TA? Is it his own study material?

The lab documents were written by him from a class that was taken almost two years ago. It's basically the documentation portion of the lab because for that class, you still had to build a circuit on a bread board and show it to the TA to make sure it works.

I haven't spoken to him in a few weeks but a mutual friend said the guy has three classes left to graduate and if he gets suspended for the fall, he would have to wait until next fall because the classes he needs are not offered in the spring. ouch!


edit: the funny thing is that there are two other known sites from students who have graduated with the same labs.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: Brainonska511
Nothing wrong with getting a solutions manual. I've had professors and TAs that encourage looking through the solutions manual as you do the homework. The solutions manuals, depending on the text and subject, are not always complete or take a lot of shortcuts.

If the professor tells you to get it, that's great. If they sell it at the college bookstore or have it in the library, he shouldn't have a problem. If not, the school will likely consider it to be cheating.

How hard is this for you people to understand? We don't know what the professor allows, but from what the OP is saying it sounds like the solution manual is going to get him in trouble. It doesn't matter whether your professor lets you use the solution manual or old course materials. Your professor is not the OP's friend's professor, and probably isn't a professor at his school.

Originally posted by: PhaZe
I haven't spoken to him in a few weeks but a mutual friend said the guy has three classes left to graduate and if he gets suspended for the fall, he would have to wait until next fall because the classes he needs are not offered in the spring. ouch!

He should mention that at his hearing. I doubt they would suspend him under those circumstances.

 

[eLiu]

Another interesting approach is for profs to give oral exams. This clearly isn't possible in big, low level classes. (But if you have to cheat to get through freshmen calc or chem or whatever, you're fucked anyway.) With oral exams, even if you know the questions beforehand, if you don't actually understand the material it'll show right through. Between like posture, tone of voice, etc your body language will likely give you away. And profs can ask additional probing questions, since often no two people have exactly the same oral exam experience.

I find that oral exams also benefit students who do know what they're doing. Sometimes you just blank out a little... on a test, that might mean game over. But with an oral exam, the prof can provide small hints/leading questions to get you started, and you can often still do just fine.

 

[PhaZe]

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: Brainonska511
Nothing wrong with getting a solutions manual. I've had professors and TAs that encourage looking through the solutions manual as you do the homework. The solutions manuals, depending on the text and subject, are not always complete or take a lot of shortcuts.

If the professor tells you to get it, that's great. If they sell it at the college bookstore or have it in the library, he shouldn't have a problem. If not, the school will likely consider it to be cheating.

How hard is this for you people to understand? We don't know what the professor allows, but from what the OP is saying it sounds like the solution manual is going to get him in trouble. It doesn't matter whether your professor lets you use the solution manual or old course materials. Your professor is not the OP's friend's professor, and probably isn't a professor at his school.

Originally posted by: PhaZe
I haven't spoken to him in a few weeks but a mutual friend said the guy has three classes left to graduate and if he gets suspended for the fall, he would have to wait until next fall because the classes he needs are not offered in the spring. ouch!

He should mention that at his hearing. I doubt they would suspend him under those circumstances.

Yeah I agree that the solutions manual is a no no. Interestingly, the SOFTWARE that comes with the book allows you to solve the homework problems though.

 

[seemingly random]

There's got to be some background here that we're not privy to. It just doesn't smell right. Somebody's got a hard on for this guy or he's being used as a scapegoat or an example for some issue.