Do you guys think the punishment fits the crime?

[silverpig]

Originally posted by: PhaZe
I agree eLui. Your post reminds me of the IEEE organization at my university. They attract new members by offering solutions and old course material to paid IEEE members. They always state this during their meetings for new members and they have several faculty members in there that never say anything about that.

My friend's site was just a directory. It had a folder with sub folders for each class. Nothing like a blog or an actual site with options or interface.

That doesn't sound like too big of a deal then.

 

[blinky8225]

It doesn't seem that big of a deal if there were just solutions to homework or something. It's normally only worth like 10% anyway. It's not like it could help you out for the test that actually counts.

 

[Brainonska511]

Originally posted by: PhaZe
I agree eLui. Your post reminds me of the IEEE organization at my university. They attract new members by offering solutions and old course material to paid IEEE members. They always state this during their meetings for new members and they have several faculty members in there that never say anything about that.

My friend's site was just a directory. It had a folder with sub folders for each class. Nothing like a blog or an actual site with options or interface.

If it was just a directory, I don't see the big deal. It wasn't like he created a website and advertised that he had all this available coursework that people could take a look at.

 

[Farang]

Sucks considering all fraternity/sorority members have access to the same.

 

[Hacp]

Originally posted by: HappyPuppy
I always believed professors and instructors should be smarter than their students. That includes leaving doors wide open for those with ulterior motives to peek into the inner sanctum. Clearly the prof should be sanctioned and fired, while the student should be given a medal for outing him for his ignorance. I won't go so far as to say the student should be granted an honorary degree, but he should at least be given free tuition, books and housing for the remainder of his college days.

If the professors have PhDs and the students are lowly undergrads, of course the professors are going to be smarter than their students!

 

[imported_Lothar]

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: IHateMyJob2004

Ya, they better suspend every single fraternity and sorority on campus. We had a teacher like this also for one class. he changed one question every year for his exams and the homework had different numbers. Oddly, I scored over 80% on all the tests.

Are you implying that because cheating is so widespread, colleges should just ignore it?

No.
Colleges should fire teachers that bring the same exam and lab questions every year.

There was a case even worse in my school 2 years ago.
The Dean of Pharmacy taught a week long lecture Anemia. Two brilliant Ethopian students searched Google and found some questions a day before the exam. They shared it with other members of their clan the day of the exam.
http://www.google.com/search?c...pera&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8 (the 1st link)

A week after the exam, the results were announced...68% of the class failed while there was a disproportinal number of students who passed with flying colors(85%+) with 4 people getting exactly 100%. Only 29 out of 93 students passed. I was one of the lucky few that got a 74%, but I'll be damned if I have to bring a "C" on my report card.

A student(me) noticed that there was a disproportional number of students who weren't in the middle and questioned the official results by talking to the course coordinatior.
Two days after the results were announced, a google link was sent anonymously by someone to the class yahoogroups account that contained the exact questions and multiple choice word for word that was on the exam.
The entire class protested(only the people who failed actually) and marched straight to the course coordinator's office.
The course coordinator tossed the entire exam, while the "few" students who got an 86%+ argued that they studied their arse off for the exam and deserved every grade they got. :roll:

That Dean still has his job today.

 

[rchiu]

Originally posted by: eLiu
I mean, my assignments and work (i.e. my solutions, which are in this case nearly always correct) for the past 4.5 years (4 yrs undergrad, 1/2 grad), which is about 40 classes, is all 100% publicly available in my university web space.

I put my work there b/c then I can access it from any computer (university lab, my own laptop, my desktop, a friend's machine, etc), and it's extremely convenient to not have to do lame shit like email myself files constantly. I even expanded the use of my univ web space to allow my friends to upload files for when they wanted help debugging code, for example.

I think it's a perfectly reasonable thing to do. If people cheat off of me, that's not my problem. It's not like I'm broadcasting "hey look you can copy my answers!!!!!" to everyone that I see. Moreover, if you copy something w/o really understanding it, you'll get boned on the test and/or the grader should notice. If you learn the material and do well on exams, then 2 things: 1) the tests are too easy or 2) you learned the material => class served its purpose.

Someone who wants to cheat will find a way to do it. It's not like your friend's website is really empowering people to be naughty.

I mean if the prof wants to punish that kid, practically my entire lab should be suspended. We all keep old work/notes in folders on our shelves and/or in our desks. It'd be a trivial matter for one of us to stay late and go through the 'smart kid's' materials. So what, I should be required to burn all of my physical notes/homework solutions?

Students are not here to police other students. We are not the anti-cheating enforcers. We should not have to inconvenience ourselves b/c it makes it harder for -someone else- to cheat.

Now if your friend put the materials online w/the intent of sharing w/others... that's a different story entirely.

-Eric

The difference is you made YOUR work available and the OP's friend made the PROFESSOR's material available.

 

[IEC]

Smart professors change exams 🙂

 

[Wreckem]

Originally posted by: PhaZe
A friend of mine in engineering has a hearing with the college to determine if he violated the academic honesty policy.

A professor found his site where he stored old course material. There were old labs and a solutions manual for the course that the professor teaches. The material is from 2007. (I guess the labs don't change)

The professor reported it to the department and stated that he may have violated code:

Any other conduct which a reasonable person in the same or similar circumstances would recognize as dishonest or improper in an academic setting.

The department recommended suspension for one semester and there will be a hearing where two faculty members and three students will decide whether he is guilty or not. They also decide on the punishment.

It sucks because I've talked to the guy a few times and he seems like a humble guy who probably used bad judgment.

I was trying to think of some counter arguments to maybe help his situation. I don't think he advertised or encouraged people to look at his stuff, perhaps Google picked it up.

Thoughts?

cliffs
-- this isn't long , just read, it's important.

Using a professors tests or other material without consent is
1. a copyright violation
2. against almost every universities academic honesty policy. Typically this is vaguely brought up in syllubuses and ends up saying the student is responsible for knowing what is in the academic honesty policies.

Shit, 95% of my professors do NOT give tests back. Those that have always wrote the test the day before it was given.

 

[gorcorps]

I'm in an engineering college (Colorado School of Mines) and we have an absolutely zero tolerance policy on shit like this. It's also very obviously stated all over the place and they make damn sure you know about it so you can't claim ignorance. If he only gets suspended for a semester I'd call that a win, because over here they've been booting people out permanently for the same shit.

 

[Born2bwire]

He hasn't been punished yet. We don't really know the whole story here to pass a full judgement on your friend, and neither does the University since they are taking the time to have a hearing. I would imagine that they have questions similar to our own.

It's really a case by case basis in my opinion but putting the solutions manual up is a big red flag against him.

 

[eLiu]

Originally posted by: rchiu

Originally posted by: eLiu
I mean, my assignments and work (i.e. my solutions, which are in this case nearly always
snip
erent story entirely.

-Eric

The difference is you made YOUR work available and the OP's friend made the PROFESSOR's material available.

So in a lot of cases my work isn't much different than the official solutions.

Additionally, I have several course binders that I've organized for myself containing assignments, notes, my homework, official solutions, tests + solutions, etc from classes that I care about so I can revisit the material later on (which happens pretty often b/c I forget shit fast). Many of these materials sit on a shelf by my desk in lab, which is pretty much a public place.

Same goes for many other people who work in my lab. Again these folders contain official solutions and personal work. Should we all be forced to remove/destroy these folders? I mean, students' work or official solutions, both are just as easy to cheat from.

I still don't think making materials available for cheaters is the same as engaging in cheating. [stupid example] By walking alone at night in sketchy areas, I might be making myself a relatively easy target for mugging... but I don't think that makes me reprehensible if I get mugged.[/stupid example] More importantly, these folks are in college. Nominally you go to college b/c you want to. We're not in elementary school anymore... it isn't the school's job to be watching our every move, waiting to pounce on those ethical gray areas.

In a sense, having cheaters around is more "realistic." You're going to run into douchebags who will do whatever it takes to get ahead in "the REAL world"... might as well get used to it.

 

[schmedy]

Have him contact Fire they may have advice for him.

 

[alkemyst]

I think anyone that provides copies of old tests as well as anyone that uses them should be barred from any university.

In my Computer Science course about a dozen Indian students from overseas were all caught cheating. The professor slightly changed the answers...they all answered within 90% correct of the old test.

He pushed to have them 'sent home' but the university only forced them to take a 'W' for the class 😕

Those fuckers were cheating in almost all the classes I had them in...outside of that almost everyone else was too.

I talked to my CPU professor how the current 'program' was floating around and people were just slightly changing it (model a CPU and it's registers in C++).

I asked if I can write it in VB to show I am doing my own work. He allowed it.

I hate cheating. Just like the typical idiot that spends 2 seconds googling and then thinks they are an expert.

 

[sdifox]

Originally posted by: alkemyst
I think anyone that provides copies of old tests as well as anyone that uses them should be barred from any university.

In my Computer Science course about a dozen Indian students from overseas were all caught cheating. The professor slightly changed the answers...they all answered within 90% correct of the old test.

He pushed to have them 'sent home' but the university only forced them to take a 'W' for the class 😕

Those fuckers were cheating in almost all the classes I had them in...outside of that almost everyone else was too.

I talked to my CPU professor how the current 'program' was floating around and people were just slightly changing it (model a CPU and it's registers in C++).

I asked if I can write it in VB to show I am doing my own work. He allowed it.

I hate cheating. Just like the typical idiot that spends 2 seconds googling and then thinks they are an expert.

Back in the days when I was in school, we had access to past exams and assignments, even the answers. Questions are never the same though. I feared open book exams the most.

 

[TwiceOver]

Having the solutions manual is probably what will get him in trouble. Collecting past work shouldn't be that big of a deal.

 

[JJChicken]

Originally posted by: PhaZe

Originally posted by: IHateMyJob2004

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: IHateMyJob2004

Ya, they better suspend every single fraternity and sorority on campus. We had a teacher like this also for one class. he changed one question every year for his exams and the homework had different numbers. Oddly, I scored over 80% on all the tests.

Are you implying that because cheating is so widespread, colleges should just ignore it?

I think it's sad to think that teachers should not be at fault if they don't make up new tests with each semester.

I agree to some extent. They make enough $, they can at least put some effort to discourage dishonesty.

QFT

 

[0roo0roo]

lazy prof not earning their pay😛

 

[habib89]

some of my professors used to give out old tests and solutions as study material. i also had years of previous students' homework and tests to refer to while i was studying. and dude, if you're gonna allow open books open notes on a test, then those are open game, and if you have a test with the exact numbers and exact wording, then how is that the student's problem? I don't really see what's wrong with this. Maybe i could see a problem with the solution manual, but the professor should have never let that out of his hands. and once it was out of his hands, he should have changed the lab questions.

 

[mugs]

This thread is so full of fail. Academic honesty is not about what you can get away with, or what the professor SHOULD do to prevent people from cheating. Blaming the professor for not changing the questions is not going to help.

It sounds likely that the OP's friend intended this document repository to be used by himself only (at least based on the OP's description). That is what he should tell the people who will be deciding his punishment.

Good luck explaining the solutions book though. They will probably consider that to be enough proof that he cheated.

 

[imported_Lothar]

Originally posted by: mugs
This thread is so full of fail. Academic honesty is not about what you can get away with, or what the professor SHOULD do to prevent people from cheating. Blaming the professor for not changing the questions is not going to help.

It sounds likely that the OP's friend intended this document repository to be used by himself only (at least based on the OP's description). That is what he should tell the people who will be deciding his punishment.

Good luck explaining the solutions book though. They will probably consider that to be enough proof that he cheated.

What's so special about a solution's manual?

My Calculus, Physics, and Organic Chemistry textbooks came with them.
The answers to all exercises, questions, and homework were all there.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: Lothar

Originally posted by: mugs
This thread is so full of fail. Academic honesty is not about what you can get away with, or what the professor SHOULD do to prevent people from cheating. Blaming the professor for not changing the questions is not going to help.

It sounds likely that the OP's friend intended this document repository to be used by himself only (at least based on the OP's description). That is what he should tell the people who will be deciding his punishment.

Good luck explaining the solutions book though. They will probably consider that to be enough proof that he cheated.

What's so special about a solution's manual?

My Calculus, Physics, and Organic Chemistry textbooks came with them.
The answers to all exercises, questions, and homework were all there.

Judging by the OP's posts, the solutions book wasn't something his friend was supposed to have. If it's something that came with the student version of the textbook, he should be fine (as long as his document repository appears to be intended for personal use only - otherwise the completed homework assignments will be a problem).

 

[GagHalfrunt]

Originally posted by: PhaZe


I was trying to think of some counter arguments to maybe help his situation. I don't think he advertised or encouraged people to look at his stuff, perhaps Google picked it up.

If he didn't intend for people to use the material he would not have published the material. He's guilty, fry him.

 

[zinfamous]

well, when I was in school, most, if not all of my classes related to the bio major had previous course work, exams, etc freely available in the library.

The professors put them there and made it available for study purposes. Of course, this is by individual preference to the professor and how they have set up their course.

Where did he get the material? 1=was it in the library, and as such--freely available? 2=was there a stipulation that somehow prevented the use of previous semester course material? If 1=yes and 2=no, then that looks like your pal's only shot.

Otherwise, he may be screwed.

Personally, I think it can only be helpful and shouldn't be a problem if used as a study aid. Again, this only assumes the course allows this from the get go, and the prof isn't a lazy ass bastard that simply reprints old exams with the exact same questions and without altering the figures.

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: sdifox

Originally posted by: alkemyst
I think anyone that provides copies of old tests as well as anyone that uses them should be barred from any university.

In my Computer Science course about a dozen Indian students from overseas were all caught cheating. The professor slightly changed the answers...they all answered within 90% correct of the old test.

He pushed to have them 'sent home' but the university only forced them to take a 'W' for the class 😕

Those fuckers were cheating in almost all the classes I had them in...outside of that almost everyone else was too.

I talked to my CPU professor how the current 'program' was floating around and people were just slightly changing it (model a CPU and it's registers in C++).

I asked if I can write it in VB to show I am doing my own work. He allowed it.

I hate cheating. Just like the typical idiot that spends 2 seconds googling and then thinks they are an expert.

Back in the days when I was in school, we had access to past exams and assignments, even the answers. Questions are never the same though. I feared open book exams the most.

Yeah, open-book exams were the worst. Whenever we had one, it was take home and you had a week to complete it. Freaking rough, though.