Do you favor a draft under any circumstances?

[SammyJr]

I'm actually paraphrasing Heinlein there. The actual quote goes:

"I also think there are prices too high to pay to save the United States. Conscription is one of them. Conscription is slavery, and I don't think that any people or nation has a right to save itself at the price of slavery for anyone, no matter what name it is called. We have had the draft for twenty years now; I think this is shameful. If a country can't save itself through the volunteer service of its own free people, then I say : Let the damned thing go down the drain"!

I agree with this.

 

[piasabird]

I think a mandatory Draft with Mandatory training for all might be a good idea. This might keep people form being so quick to demand that the government attack another country if they could be called up to go to war. I think everyone should have to pull a stint in the military, even if it is only about a 6 month to a year of military training. Everyone needs to know what the military life is all about. If you know how to shoot a weapon, maybe you wouldnt shoot people by accident trying to defend yoursef in your own home.

Even if you are a conciencious objector there are other worthwhile skills you could learn. The military requires all kinds of jobs to be perfromed from logistics, to security (Police), to intelligence, supply services, clerks, doctors, nurses etc. Maybe you could learn a skill that might be useful and interact with other people. The military is not only about killing. It is like being part of a brotherhood, where everyone is equal.

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

Agreed. I will enlist anyway if enemy forces are on U.S. soil.

If the Us is ever invaded there won't be time for enlistment, training ect. It's going to be just like the "insurgents" in Iraq and Afganistan. You have a lot of former military people all across the Us plus lots of non vets that would stand up and fight for their homes.

 

[dmcowen674]

Do you favor a draft under any circumstances?

The Draft should be in place at all times

Everyone should have to do four years military service after High School including the sons and daughters of Politicians.

 

[MotF Bane]

The Draft should be in place at all times

Everyone should have to do four years military service after High School including the sons and daughters of Politicians.

Should crazy people also be drafted?

 

[Kirby]

Should crazy people also be drafted?

I don't think he could be trusted to clean the latrine.

 

[Acanthus]

I think a draft should be an option available in case of dire emergency. Also, any conscripts should only be used on home territory, they should never step foot into foreign territory.

This.

 

[Brovane]

A draft is a bad idea. Wars are no longer fought with poorly trained troops which are handed a rifle and a given a couple of months of training. They way things are setup now is that a Draft is 2-year commitment. It takes around 18-24 months to turn out a effective trained solider. Just about the time that they are getting fully trained there 2-year commitment is up. Also from a training side the entire military training is setup for the past 25-years to train a professional volunteer army. Doing a draft would turn this all on its head.

Also consider something as simple as the ASVAB test. The military has come to rely on this test to determine recruits aptiptude for military jobs. With a draft it would be to easy for people to delibarately score low on this test mucking up the process. Also the military has tightened up recruitment standards since the draft was stopped in the early 70s. All these tighter recruitment standards would fall away. Years ago a judge could give a young man the option of going to prison or joining the military. They don't do that anymore.

Not a good idea and the US military doesn't want anything to do with a draft.

 

[OBLAMA2009]

It's silly when people stress that the draft violates their personal freedom in all circumstances. If you don't defend your country your freedoms could simply be taken away altogether. Granted, the draft for Vietnam was a travesty.

the majority of these wars are not about defending the country. vietnam, panama, libya, afghanistan and iraq are not threats to freedom in the us and no human being should be forced to involuntarily risk injury or death there. you people are so brainwashed. no other country on the planet goes around the world illegally invading sovereign countries, overthrowing the internationally recognized governments there, executing the leaders, and occupying/exploiting them for a decade. imagine if russia or china were doing the same things this country was doing. the world would be outraged. no wonder the us wont submit to a world court. the us has done a million times the damage to humanity that bin laden or the taliban has. not supporting unlawful american aggression isnt the same thing as not supporting freedom!

in any case all this warfare doesnt have the intended effect anyway. if fact it has the opposite. when the us invades countries to attack a couple of people (bin laden, mullah omar, noriega, ghadaffi etc..) they end up harming a lot of innocent people and making a whole country full of enemies.

i wont even go off on the damage caused to our own country by the ridiculous cost of these wars... but imagine how much better off the whole world would be if we brought all those people home and put them to work building things instead of blowing them up

 

[dmcowen674]

Should crazy people also be drafted?

Republicans don't have to fake being crazy to try and weasel out of it, they are naturally crazy.

 

[IGBT]

the vast majority would benefit from the discipline. And some of those would benefit from time in the brig. Personal freedom is not guaranteed.

 

[piasabird]

Next time you hear a person say the government should do something about Defur or some other country, tell them they should enlist and do it themselves. Beware what you ask for. Here is something from the Bible:

Do you want a King or freedom?

6 ¶ But the thing displeased Samuel, when they said, Give us a king to judge us. And Samuel prayed unto the Lord.
7 And the Lord said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the avoice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them.
8 According to all the works which they have done since the day that I brought them up out of Egypt even unto this day, wherewith they have forsaken me, and served other gods, so do they also unto thee.
9 Now therefore hearken unto their voice: howbeit yet protest solemnly unto them, and shew them the manner of the king that shall creign over them.
10 ¶ And Samuel told all the words of the Lord unto the people that asked of him a king.
11 And he said, This will be the manner of the king that shall reign over you: He will take your sons, and appoint them for himself, for his chariots, and to be his horsemen; and some shall run before his chariots.
12 And he will appoint him captains over thousands, and captains over fifties; and will set them to aear his ground, and to reap his harvest, and to make his instruments of war, and instruments of his chariots.
13 And he will take your daughters to be aconfectionaries, and to be cooks, and to be bakers.
14 And he will take your fields, and your vineyards, and your oliveyards, even the best of them, and give them to his servants.
15 And he will take the tenth of your seed, and of your vineyards, and give to his officers, and to his servants.
16 And he will take your menservants, and your maidservants, and your goodliest young men, and your asses, and put them to his work.
17 He will take the tenth of your sheep: and ye shall be his servants.
18 And ye shall cry out in that day because of your king which ye shall have chosen you; and the Lord will not hear you in that day.
19 ¶ Nevertheless the people refused to obey the voice of Samuel; and they said, Nay; but we will have a king over us;

 

[Zebo]

I'd join the other side if I had to draft into US military. First of all it's slavery. Second it says state owns your life = communism^10. Third we fight like pussies with too many rules, rules that don't work. I want to win or die trying so I would follow lessons of winners like Khan. Yes every Taliban funeral should be bombed. We should have leveled fallujah as an example. etc. Anything else is just a waste of men materials and money I have zero patience for. Better to stay home and fish watch big screen TV's than spin my wheels in some shithole at risk of being charged at anytime by my own.

“War is cruelty. There's no use trying to reform it. The crueler it is, the sooner it will be over.”

- William Tecumseh Sherman

 

[glenn1]

Yes, we need the cannon fodder.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1m6jz_southparkoperationhumanshield_fun

 

[QuantumPion]

no other country on the planet goes around the world illegally invading sovereign countries,

Are you retarded? Do you think every conflict in the last 100 years is America's fault somehow?

From wikipedia:

* 2008 invasion of Gaza by Israel
* 2008 invasion of Georgia by Russia
* 2008 invasion of South Ossetia by Georgia
* 2008 invasion of Anjouan by the African Union
* 2006 invasion of Somalia by Ethiopia
* 2006 invasion of Lebanon by Israel
* 2003 invasion of Iraq by United States-led coalition
* 2001 invasion of Afghanistan by United States-led coalition
* 1999 invasion of India by the Pakistan Army, the paramilitary Northern Light Infantry, and other irregulars
* 1998 invasion of Ethiopia by Eritrea
* 1994 invasion of Haiti by a multinational force (MNF) led by the United States
* 1993 invasion of Spratly Islands by Vietnam
* 1991 invasion of Kuwait and southern Iraq by a coalition force of 34 nations led by the United States
* 1990 invasion of Kuwait by Iraq
* 1989 invasion of Liberia launched from Côte d'Ivoire by the National Patriotic Front of Liberia
* 1989 invasion of Panama by the United States
* 1988 invasion of Spratly Islands by China
* 1983 invasion of Grenada by the United States and allied Caribbean nations
* 1982 invasion of Lebanon by Israel
* 1982 invasion of Falkland Islands initially by Argentine civilians, followed by official Argentina forces
* 1980 invasion of Iran by Iraq
* 1979 invasion of Afghanistan by the Soviet Union
* 1979–1988 invasions of Thailand by Vietnam
* 1979 invasion of Northern Vietnam by China
* 1979 invasion of Uganda by Tanzania and Ugandan exiles
* 1978 invasion of Cambodia by Vietnam, with Soviet support
* 1978 invasion of Tanzania by Uganda
* 1978 invasion of Lebanon by Israel
* 1977 invasion of Cambodia by Vietnam
* 1977 invasion of Ethiopia by Somalia and Western Somali Liberation Front irregulars
* 1976 invasion of Paracel Islands by Vietnam
* 1975 invasion of East Timor by Indonesia
* 1975 invasion of Spanish Sahara by Morocco
* 1975 invasion of Poulo Wai Island by Vietnam
* 1975 invasion of South Vietnam by North Vietnam
* 1974 invasion of Cyprus by Turkey
* 1974 invasion of Paracel Islands by South Vietnam
* 1973 Invasion of Israel by Egypt and Syria
* 1972 invasion of South Vietnam by North Vietnam
* 1971 invasion of East Pakistan by India
* 1971 invasion of Laos by South Vietnam
* 1970 invasion of Cambodia by the United States and South Vietnam
* 1968 invasion of Czechoslovakia by the Warsaw Pact led by the Soviet Union
* 1968 invasion of South Vietnam by North Vietnam
* 1967 invasions of Biafra by Nigeria
* 1967 invasions of Nigeria by Biafra
* 1967 invasion of Egypt, Syria, and Jordan by Israel
* 1965 invasion of Pakistan by India
* 1965 invasion of India by Pakistan Army and irregulars
* 1965 invasion of Dominican Republic by United States and OAS
* 1964 invasion of the Turkish Cypriot Enclave Kokkina by Cyprus and Greece
* 1962 invasions of South Vietnam by the United States
* 1961 invasion of Netherlands New Guinea by Indonesia
* 1961 invasion of Goa by India
* 1961 invasion of Cuba by Cuban allies of the United States, particularly its CIA
* 1958 invasion of Laos by North Vietnam
* 1956 invasion of Hungary by the Soviet Union
* 1956 invasion of Egypt by France, United Kingdom and Israel
* 1951 invasion of North Korea by United Nations and South Korea
* 1951 invasion of South Korea by the Chinese People's Volunteer Army and North Korea
* 1950 invasion of North Korea by United Nations and South Korea
* 1950 invasion of South Korea by North Korea with Soviet support
* 1950-1951 invasion of Tibet by China
* 1948 invasion of Israel by Lebanese, Syrian, Iraqi, Egyptian, Transjordanian and other forces
* 1947 invasion of Kashmir by Pakistan irregulars
* 1946 invasion of Northern Vietnam by France
* 1945 invasion of Southern Vietnam by France, with British and Indian support and captured Japanese fascist forces.
* 1945 invasion of Japan by the Allies
* 1945 invasion of Japanese-occupied Vietnam by the Allies, and disarmed the Japanese army
* 1945 invasion of Japanese-controlled Manchuria and Korea by the Soviet Union
* 1945 invasion of Japanese Burma by Allied forces
* 1945 invasion of Okinawa, Japan by the United States
* 1945 invasion of Poland, Austria and Eastern Germany by the Soviet Union
* 1945 invasion of Iwo Jima, Japan by Allied forces
* 1944 invasion of Western Germany by Allied forces
* 1944 invasion of Bulgaria, Yugoslavia by the Soviet Union
* 1944 invasion of Belgium, the southern Netherlands, Luxembourg, Greece, the Philippines, Albania by Allied forces
* 1944 invasion of Guam by the United States
* 1944 invasion of Southern France by the United States, Britain and Free France
* 1944 invasion of East Asia by Japan
* 1944 invasion of Normandy, France by the United States, Britain and Canada
* 1944 invasion of Hungary by Germany
* 1944 invasion of Marshall Islands by the United States
* 1943 invasion of Gilberts & Marshall Islands by Japan
* 1943 invasion of Italy by the United States, Britain and Canada
* 1943 invasion of Kolombangara in the Solomon Islands by Japan
* 1943 invasion of Italy (Sicily) by Britain, the United States and Canada
* 1942 invasion of Vichy French North Africa by the United States, Britain and Free French Forces
* 1942 invasion of Solomon Islands by the United States, Australia and New Zealand
* 1942 invasion of Alaska by Japan
* 1942 invasion of Vichy France by Germany
* 1942 invasion of Madagascar by Allied forces
* 1942 invasion of Indonesia by Japan
* 1942 invasion of New Guinea, Dutch New Guinea and Singapore by Japan
* 1942 invasion of Solomon Islands by Japan
* 1941 invasion of Netherlands East Indies, Guam and Borneo by Japan
* 1941 invasion of Wake Island, Hong Kong and Philippines by Japan
* 1941 invasion of Malaya and Thailand by Japan
* 1941 invasion of the Soviet Union by Germany and many other Axis forces (Romania, Finland, Italy, Hungary, Slovakia)
* 1941 invasion of Vichy Indochina by Thailand
* 1941 invasion of Iran by the Soviet Union and Britain
* 1941 invasion of Vichy French Syria and Lebanon by Australian and Free French forces
* 1941 invasion of Southern French Indochina by Japan
* 1941 invasion of Greenland and Iceland by the United States
* 1941 invasion of Yugoslavia by Germany, Italy, Bulgaria, Hungary and Romania
* 1941 invasion of Southern Vietnam by Japan
* 1941 invasion of Portuguese Timor by Australian and Dutch forces
* 1940 invasion of Albania by Greece
* 1940 invasion of Egypt, Greece by Italy, Germany and Bulgaria
* 1940 invasion of Sudan, Kenya, British Somaliland by Italy
* 1940 invasion of Vietnam by Japan, destroying the French colony
* 1940 invasion of Iceland by Britain
* 1940 invasion of Southern France by Italy
* 1940 invasion of Denmark, Norway, Belgium, France, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, the Channel Islands and Romania by Germany
* 1939 invasion of Finland by the Soviet Union
* 1939 invasion of French and Vietnamese-held Spratly Islands by Japan
* 1939 invasion of Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia by the Soviet Union
* 1939 invasion of French and Vietnamese-held Paracel Islands by Japan
* 1939 invasion of Poland by the Soviet Union
* 1939 invasion of Poland by Germany and Slovakia initiating World War II in Europe
* 1940 invasion of French Indochina (Vietnam) by Japan
* 1939 invasion of Japanese Manchuria by the Soviet Union and Mongolia[citation needed]
* 1939 invasion of Albania by Italy
* 1938 invasion of the Soviet Union by Japan
* 1938–1939 invasion of Czechoslovakia by Germany and Hungary
* 1937 invasion of China by Japan
* 1935–1936 invasion of Ethiopia by Italy from Italian Eritrea
* 1931 invasion of Chinese Manchuria by Japan
* 1923 invasion of Greek Corfu by Italy
* 1923–1924 invasion of Germany by France and Belgium
* 1920 invasion of Anatolia by Greece
* 1920 invasion of Poland by Russia
* 1919 invasion of Smyrna by Greece
* 1919 invasion of Ukraine and Belarus by Bolshevik Russia and Poland
* 1918 invasion of Bolshevik Russia by multiple expeditions from Entente countries
* 1916 invasion of Romania by Germany
* 1916 invasion of Vietnam by France
* 1915 invasion of Russia by Germany and Austria-Hungary
* 1915 invasion of Montenegro by Austria-Hungary
* 1915 invasion of Serbia by Austria-Hungary, Bulgaria and Germany
* 1915 invasion of Ottoman Empire by the United Kingdom and Russia
* 1915 invasion of Serbia by Austria-Hungary
* 1915 invasion of German South West Africa by South Africa
* 1914 invasion of Caroline Islands and Marshall Islands by Japan
* 1914 invasion of France by Germany
* 1914 invasion of German East Africa by the British Indian Army
* 1914 invasion of German Tsingtao in China by Japan and the United Kingdom
* 1914 invasion of German Caroline Islands, Mariana Islands and Marshall Islands by Japan
* 1914 invasion of German New Guinea by Australia
* 1914 invasion of German Samoa by New Zealand
* 1914 invasion of German Kamerun by the United Kingdom, France and Belgium
* 1914 invasion of Austro-Hungarian Galicia by Russia
* 1914 invasion of Germany by Russia
* 1914 invasion of Serbia by Austria-Hungary
* 1914 invasion of South Africa by Germany
* 1914 invasion of German Togoland by France and the United Kingdom
* 1914 invasion of Alsace by France
* 1914 invasion of Belgium by Germany
* 1914 invasion of Luxemburg by Germany
* 1915 invasion of Haiti by the United States
* 1912 invasion of Albania by Greece, Serbia, and Montenegro
* 1912 invasion of Macedonia by the Balkan League (Greece, Serbia, Montenegro, Bulgaria)
* 1912 invasion of Macedonia by Albania
* 1911 invasion of Libya by Italy
* 1910 invasion of Tibet by China
* 1904 invasion of Tibet by British-Indian army
* 1900 invasion of China by the Eight-Nation Alliance

 

[OBLAMA2009]

most of those are border/territory disputes, not the type of naked aggression wars the u.s starts when it sends armies, navies and air forces to conquer foreign countries that dont border it, usually under the guise of killing one person. so you think its ok to wage war on an entire population to get revenge on one person??? (not that thats the real reason the u.s. does this)

 

[BoberFett]

Never. You cannot coerce someone else to fight your wars for you. If a country can't drum up enough troops to fight a war, they need to re-examine whether the war is worth it or not.

If Chinese ships landed on our beaches today there would be lines outside the recruiting offices.

 

[BoberFett]

Should crazy people also be drafted?

If crazy people could be drafted, Dave would be a General.

 

[JSt0rm]

I do favor draft beer when it is Belgium but I like my pale ales in the bottle.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Republicans don't have to fake being crazy to try and weasel out of it, they are naturally crazy.

Since you voted for Bush -- twice -- the description above describes you to the letter.

 

[Modelworks]

Some of you are missing some of the reasons why drafts are used. It isn't about forcing people to fight because they don't want to . One reason for the draft is to allow those who want to fight to do so. During WWII there were many people who could not quit their current careers to join the army even if they wanted to because someone like an engineer leaving their job for the army voluntarily could be seen as being disloyal to the employer, after the war they would have a hard time resuming work in that field because to employers they chose the army over their profession. Instead the draft has provisions included in it that prevent a person from being harmed in that way because they joined the army during war time. A sort of pause on your regular life while you are enlisted. I know a couple people that said they would not have been in the war had it not been for the draft for that reason. The draft allowed them to point the finger at the government as being the reason for them joining the army and not something that reflected on their personal views. One guy said 'I was a good engineer at GM and I wanted to help but I couldn't just quit GM and join the Army, I had obligations to my employer'


It was never mandatory that you fight in a war. You could then and still can now if it happens declare yourself as a conscientious objector . Many people did not want to do that though because of the stigma attached. With the way the country is so PC today I bet they would except "Guns make loud noises, they scare me" as a reason for exemption.
If it was done now it would be done lottery style.

 

[Modelworks]

no other country on the planet goes around the world rebuilding countries, implementing internationally recognized governments , executing the dictators, and supplying them for a decade with billions in aid.

Fixed !

 

[StageLeft]

Some of you are missing some of the reasons why drafts are used. It isn't about forcing people to fight because they don't want to . One reason for the draft is to allow those who want to fight to do so. During WWII there were many people who could not quit their current careers to join the army even if they wanted to because someone like an engineer leaving their job for the army voluntarily could be seen as being disloyal to the employer, after the war they would have a hard time resuming work in that field because to employers they chose the army over their profession. Instead the draft has provisions included in it that prevent a person from being harmed in that way because they joined the army during war time. A sort of pause on your regular life while you are enlisted. I know a couple people that said they would not have been in the war had it not been for the draft for that reason. The draft allowed them to point the finger at the government as being the reason for them joining the army and not something that reflected on their personal views. One guy said 'I was a good engineer at GM and I wanted to help but I couldn't just quit GM and join the Army, I had obligations to my employer'


It was never mandatory that you fight in a war. You could then and still can now if it happens declare yourself as a conscientious objector . Many people did not want to do that though because of the stigma attached. With the way the country is so PC today I bet they would except "Guns make loud noises, they scare me" as a reason for exemption.
If it was done now it would be done lottery style.

Ways around your first paragraph without FORCING them into the military. And as everyone knows it can be very hard to be a conscientious objector, so yes absolutely it's a fact Americans have died in wars they did not want to be in. Why else would some have run, for example, to Canada? Ever heard the term draft dodging?

The draft is basically the government saying it's going to take my kids and put them on the front line. I'm against it in almost all, if not all circumstances. Certainly for anything these days like Iraq or whatever there shouldn't be one.

 

[ShawnD1]

Horseshit.

The majority of soldiers were not combat rifleman anyway. If you honestly think only 15 out of every 100 combat riflemen were firing in combat then you are a tard.

lol. this.

Lots of military people never really see the business end of things. Medics, officers who only carry a pistol, the dude cleaning the toilets, the prostitute servicing the servicemen, those guys in those US military commercials that are remotely piloting a plane, etc. Also, movies seem to have a lot of guys that control things. Do guys in submarines even have guns? Having an m16 also seems pretty useless when you're on a star destroyer aircraft carrier.

 

[JoshGuru7]

National Service works very well for small countries because it allows a company like SK to draw from a much larger pool of trained soldiers in a crisis when everybody has gone through 2 years of training at age 17.

Larger countries can field a sizeable army simply by hiring one. Implementing National Service in the US would not make sense because we simply don't need (or want) 100 million infantry these days due to geography and technological advancements in the way we prosecute conflicts.

Lastly, National Service has a very high economic cost. Diverting all 17 year olds to the military for two years is a very expensive use of time for future highly productive members of society. While this can be partly offset by exclusion that creates further problems such as social justice.

As for the Draft, the points made by the OP are less than convincing. You wouldn't favor a draft *under any circumstance* because you don't think it has been necessary up until now? I don't see how that is possibly a justification unless you have some way of knowing that the future will be no worse than the present or past. I would hope that the future is better than the past, but if you can't envision a single scenario where a national draft would be an appropriate response then you have a very limited imagination.