CycloWizard
Lifer
Wow, your wisdom at such a young age is overwhelming. And to think, the world's greatest thinkers, despite all their knowledge, wisdom, and experience, never came to realize this obvious contradiction.
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Do you believe Jesus Christ is your lord and savior?
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bamacre
Lifer
Cyclo, our Lord and Savior wasn't a college grad 😉 But, He is still considered fairly intelligent. Some people learn more in the streets than they could in a class. Judge him by what he says, not by what degree he has or hasn't. I have a 4-yr degree in Accounting, and my best advice would be to not ask for it.
And, Info, why don't you just be proud of what you've done, and tell everyone a little more about yourself? I'm sure you have nothing worth fearing to say. Your fear shows weakness, and causes enemies to attack.
CycloWizard
Lifer
I never said that you had to have a college education to weigh in on anything. I only stated that it's clear that any education you have will impact your views. For example, I'll take your word when it comes to taxes and so on because I know just about exactly bupkiss. I can still state my opinions on the general principles of taxation, but I know nothing about the details. On the other hand, I have spent my adult life learning how to design chemical reactors and studying their principles, making me knowledgeable regarding practicality of implementation of certain environmental remedies as well as energy problems. Even if this doesn't make me the end-all, be-all in these areas, it's obvious that this increased knowledge will affect my outlook on these issues. That said, your opinions on general energy and environmental policies are still valid, though I will correct people if they believe something that is simply incorrect, just as I would hope you would if I screwed up my taxes. After all, there's nothing worse than an opinion formed on misinformation.
Kadarin
Lifer
I am not Christian, and nor do I follow any religion. I acknowledge the possibility that God may exist, but I also acknowledge the possibility that God may not exist. I choose to not believe in the teachings of any religion because in my eyes, they are all equally arbitrary and artificial.
No
WiseOldDude
Senior member
NO!
I have not had an imaginary friend since I was 7 or 8, and event then my friend never lived someplace a ridiculous as 'in the sky'
I have not had an imaginary friend since I was 7 or 8, and event then my friend never lived someplace a ridiculous as 'in the sky'
slurmsmackenzie
Golden Member
i was raised a jehovah's witness (after time at a so. babtist, episcopal, lutheran, and even a li catholic). i make no claims, though... not out of shame, but because i would hate for my actions to reflect badly on anyone else. at a certain point in my life, i decided that hedonistic inclinations took precidence over my well being. i'm trying to claw my way back, but "i stumble many times".
I am still somewhat new to ATOT, but by far I like it here than anywhere else. I must note first that I am still only 19. I was born into Mormonism.(Church of Jesus Christ of Ladder-Day Saints). I was forced to go to church every sunday. When I was younger, I mostly just hated going to a boring place and singing boring songs for 3 hours, then talking for the same boring people for another 2. As I grew, I started to question the church, among pretty much everything else in life. I always wanted to know why such things were the way they were.
Cut to August 2003. By this time I have discovered enough to know something is wrong in the church, just not sure what yet. I end up going to Southern Virginia University. It is a mormon college-not like BYU which is church subsidized-but just a small school (450 students) that happen to be 99% Mormon. While at the school I made it my goal to learn as much about the church as possible. I studied the Book of Mormon, the King James Version of the Bible and I went to church almost everyday. Soon it became unbearable. I could not believe how anybody could believe such a book as the Book of Mormon. Five questions came to my mind that could not be answered by anybody in the church, they all just simply stated their testimony to the Book of Mormon and passed it by.
To make a long story shorter, I now consider myself an apostate Mormon. I have not been excommunicated, I just know in my heart that they Mormon religion is not true. Personally, I believe Joseph Smith made up the Book of Mormon, based largely on Ethan Smith's View of the Hebrews.
What I do believe in:
It appears that we are living on this Earth now and time is passing by. But I do not know if this is all REALLY happening right now. This could all be a dream. This does not mean I don't take life seriously, just not to the extent that others do.
From what I have learned in this world, there has to be somebody who created everything. Everything has so much balence and perfection. But at the same time, one could say that this is the only way it could be. Because of this, I do not know.
One of the first things that made me question everything is: If somebody says a prayer to protect a loved one when say, they go on a trip. If the person makes it to their destination safely, they may say that they were protected by their "Lord" through the prayer. Now, if somebody else says the same prayer to the same "Lord," yet the person is in a bad car accident and dies, how is it not seen that the "Lord" has evil in him? If he can "save" one person yet forget about another, then he is not really "saving" anything. How could the good and compassionate God do such a thing?
Here is a metaphysical problem which has puzzled thinkers me. It is stated this way: If God is all powerful and all good then there would be no evil in the world. But there is evil in the world. Therefore God is not all powerful or all good. If the first two premises are true must the conclusion be true? Some answers to this have tried to deny the first premise by appealing to our free will as the source of evil. This however does not account for natural disasters and similar types of evil.
I have done other research which has to do with a certain mushroom. Many of you have probably heard of the Fly Agaric, and there is a wealth of info. on it online so you can google it. Magic Mushrooms in Religion and Alchemy by Clark Heinrich is a superb book that I read which revealed a lot of evidence that this mushroom has played a big role in history. From Adam and Eve to Moses to Jesus, there are so many unanswered questions and thing that don't make sense. Yet there is one thing that fits into every hole, the Fly Agaric.
I believe that Jesus may have existed but I do not necessarily believe that he was the Son of God.
I could go on, but I think that is enough.
Cut to August 2003. By this time I have discovered enough to know something is wrong in the church, just not sure what yet. I end up going to Southern Virginia University. It is a mormon college-not like BYU which is church subsidized-but just a small school (450 students) that happen to be 99% Mormon. While at the school I made it my goal to learn as much about the church as possible. I studied the Book of Mormon, the King James Version of the Bible and I went to church almost everyday. Soon it became unbearable. I could not believe how anybody could believe such a book as the Book of Mormon. Five questions came to my mind that could not be answered by anybody in the church, they all just simply stated their testimony to the Book of Mormon and passed it by.
To make a long story shorter, I now consider myself an apostate Mormon. I have not been excommunicated, I just know in my heart that they Mormon religion is not true. Personally, I believe Joseph Smith made up the Book of Mormon, based largely on Ethan Smith's View of the Hebrews.
What I do believe in:
It appears that we are living on this Earth now and time is passing by. But I do not know if this is all REALLY happening right now. This could all be a dream. This does not mean I don't take life seriously, just not to the extent that others do.
From what I have learned in this world, there has to be somebody who created everything. Everything has so much balence and perfection. But at the same time, one could say that this is the only way it could be. Because of this, I do not know.
One of the first things that made me question everything is: If somebody says a prayer to protect a loved one when say, they go on a trip. If the person makes it to their destination safely, they may say that they were protected by their "Lord" through the prayer. Now, if somebody else says the same prayer to the same "Lord," yet the person is in a bad car accident and dies, how is it not seen that the "Lord" has evil in him? If he can "save" one person yet forget about another, then he is not really "saving" anything. How could the good and compassionate God do such a thing?
Here is a metaphysical problem which has puzzled thinkers me. It is stated this way: If God is all powerful and all good then there would be no evil in the world. But there is evil in the world. Therefore God is not all powerful or all good. If the first two premises are true must the conclusion be true? Some answers to this have tried to deny the first premise by appealing to our free will as the source of evil. This however does not account for natural disasters and similar types of evil.
I have done other research which has to do with a certain mushroom. Many of you have probably heard of the Fly Agaric, and there is a wealth of info. on it online so you can google it. Magic Mushrooms in Religion and Alchemy by Clark Heinrich is a superb book that I read which revealed a lot of evidence that this mushroom has played a big role in history. From Adam and Eve to Moses to Jesus, there are so many unanswered questions and thing that don't make sense. Yet there is one thing that fits into every hole, the Fly Agaric.
I believe that Jesus may have existed but I do not necessarily believe that he was the Son of God.
I could go on, but I think that is enough.
Eh... I was raised completely isolated from all things religious. What I mean by that is, my father is not religious, and he never discussed anything with me unless I asked first. None of my family members are religious, and they didn't discuss religion that much either, at least, not around me. The town we lived in and the people who were around us were generally not religious, and didn't discuss religion. By the time I had reached an age to become curious about it, I was able to approach it from a completely objective standpoint...
Which is why I understood the minute I had a better understanding of it (Christianity here) that it was utter nonsense. Seriously, I didn't see it as any different from any other "Once upon a time..." fairy tale. The next thing I learned after the fundamental basis of Christianity was that many, many people took it seriously. HAHA. Oh well...
Which is why I understood the minute I had a better understanding of it (Christianity here) that it was utter nonsense. Seriously, I didn't see it as any different from any other "Once upon a time..." fairy tale. The next thing I learned after the fundamental basis of Christianity was that many, many people took it seriously. HAHA. Oh well...
Not entirely sure if a non-religious person is supposed to respond.
But strictly speaking, I think the entirety of religion is BS. I believe that we are simply a happening in the course of time, and that there is no other meaning to our lives than what we make of it.
EDIT: I have been a fanatic of nature ever since I was young. Even now, if you stick me in a middle of a field, I can spend hours examining the different flora and fauna. I think it is beautiful and wonderful that life was able to evolve this way, and I enjoy seeing the terrible beauty when one creature kills another, or when something else raises it's young.
I love to watch the little things other people don't see, from the small eggs in patches underneath the leaves of a tree, to the ants that scurry away with the pupae when exposed to sunlight. Bigger creatures are more difficult to observe, but I did get the pleasure of nursing a bird for all of two hours when it slammed into a window. I think it's my fundamental love for nature and the acknowledgement that there is no balance created FOR nature, but that nature and life creates balance in it of itself in order to sustain itself. I think this is one of the basic reasons why I don't believe in a god. Nevermind the theological arguments and such.
But strictly speaking, I think the entirety of religion is BS. I believe that we are simply a happening in the course of time, and that there is no other meaning to our lives than what we make of it.
EDIT: I have been a fanatic of nature ever since I was young. Even now, if you stick me in a middle of a field, I can spend hours examining the different flora and fauna. I think it is beautiful and wonderful that life was able to evolve this way, and I enjoy seeing the terrible beauty when one creature kills another, or when something else raises it's young.
I love to watch the little things other people don't see, from the small eggs in patches underneath the leaves of a tree, to the ants that scurry away with the pupae when exposed to sunlight. Bigger creatures are more difficult to observe, but I did get the pleasure of nursing a bird for all of two hours when it slammed into a window. I think it's my fundamental love for nature and the acknowledgement that there is no balance created FOR nature, but that nature and life creates balance in it of itself in order to sustain itself. I think this is one of the basic reasons why I don't believe in a god. Nevermind the theological arguments and such.
You know what I think is BS? The crap the atheists spew here night and day. Take your beliefs and be happy with them, noone gives a damn about it. Enough with trashing of religion. People are comforted by religion and are happy to know that someone higher up there is looking above them. They have some sort of companion. Religion is not about selfishness, which one could argue atheiststs are. Religion is about your relationship with god and your faith in him.
btw, I'm not sure the OP wants me to post in his thread. So I better be careful here or there be big trouble. :light:
Those who are ignorant of religion and what it is all about choose to make fun of it and call people who believe in it backwardly. This is simply your ignorant view on religion. Religion is not backwards, in fact, the reason religion has survived thousands of years if because people have adapted to change and so has the different religions of the world. Do you think the hundreds of millions of hindus who worship daily are wasting their lives? That they are wasting their lives because a arrogant, western white man says so? They could care less what the white atheists think about them. Are the millions of muslims who make a pilgrimage to mecca each year also primitive and gullible?
Most ignoramases seem to have the belief that if there is god, why is there evil. Because the quick answer is that god created a imperfect world full of imperfect men. There is a reason every man and every woman on earth is flawed in one way or another. God wanted man to be his partner in all of this. There is free will and people choose to exercise it. God is just however. Therefore to simply say that there is no god because the tsunami happened or something else is just being a close minded twit.
Hey raildogg, here's some advice:
take a fvckin chill pill.
Infohawk asked about our beliefs, and I saw non-religious people respond as well. So here I am. I believe that YOUR religion, yes, your religion, is a complete and utter lie. I didn't say it was bad, I didn't say it sucked, I didn't say that we should get rid of religion.
I said your religion was bullsh*t, and that I thought it was a lie. What's wrong with that? I'm not here to oppress you, and I don't tell you not to believe. The man asked a damn question and I responded. I know your God and your religion may mean more than life itself to you, but unfortunately I couldn't give two sh*ts about it other than your right to believe.
You are obviously on the edge my friend. Go and take some Valium and then come back and read my post.
No need for me to be on medication. Or lets hope so 🙂😱.
You are right, you can't oppress me. And no, you cannot tell me what not to believe. But I have a right to call out the so-called atheists who repeateadly bash religion on this forum. I wasn't specifically targeting you, if thats what you mean.
No friend, I'm not on the edge, but maybe I should be. In fact, I am not that religious and it pains me that I'm not. My mother is very religious and wants me to be as well, I am trying but sometimes I just can't do it. Maybe I'm a bad person.
I also want people here to think twice before they post BS about there is no existence of god. You know where god is? Inside each and everyone of us. Innocent children are the faces of god.
My religion is not bullsh*t. Any religion is not bullsh*t, maybe if you learned about them and met the people of that religion you would change your mind. Religion is soothing, comforting and a way for many people to seek help. I know that concept is perceived in a negative light by certain people, but for those who actually experience it they will tell you otherwise.
No, there is no actual proof of god, but that doesn't mean there is no god. Beliving in god requires faith and your committment. You need to let go of your selfish tendencies and believe.
Alright then. Let me clarify what I meant by bullsh*t. I meant, that in my point of view, religion is on the same level as voodoo, as hocus pocus, and has all the reliability and believability of snake oil medicine.
I can believe in Superman and be comforted at night, raildogg. I do not deny the good effects of religion on people, neither do I deny the bad effects of religion on people. But to tell me those effects are brought about by God is what I deny. Your belief to me does not validate God's existence, it is HONESTLY (TO ME) total misguided thought and upbringing.
You religious people seem to think atheists are all made up of bitter skeptics and jaded people who hate their lives, or delight in being evil. Unfortunately, I am in total agreement that there probably is a fair number of atheists who are this way. And fortunately, I believe myself to not be one of them.
Just to put us off at the same level, I will say this: As much as you believe in God's existence, and put faith in His words. I too have the same amount of faith and belief that God does not exist. Hey, you just gotta let go and believe ^_~.
EDIT: grammar
And another thing raildogg,
Atheists do not express their views, because there is nothing to express. We don't go "thank no god", "I will not pray for you tonight" or anyhting like that. OTOH, religious people consistently slip in their religion in their speech, their manners and even on message boards. I think a lot of the "religion bashing" that goes on is people who are sick and tired of seeing someone else's religion, and I think Christianity in particular bears the brunt of most of it simply because it is the most ubiquitous.
EDIT: Clarify, I'm talking about IRL. And then we have anandtech message boards where everyone is going, "PRAY FOR ME, PRAY FOR ME IN THESE HARD TIMES". I guess to outlaw it would be stupid, but it's irritating nonetheless.
Atheists do not express their views, because there is nothing to express. We don't go "thank no god", "I will not pray for you tonight" or anyhting like that. OTOH, religious people consistently slip in their religion in their speech, their manners and even on message boards. I think a lot of the "religion bashing" that goes on is people who are sick and tired of seeing someone else's religion, and I think Christianity in particular bears the brunt of most of it simply because it is the most ubiquitous.
EDIT: Clarify, I'm talking about IRL. And then we have anandtech message boards where everyone is going, "PRAY FOR ME, PRAY FOR ME IN THESE HARD TIMES". I guess to outlaw it would be stupid, but it's irritating nonetheless.
Voodooism is a legitimate religion practiced by 60 million people. They are in Eastern Africa and Haiti. Did you know that Voodoo is practiced in Louisiana and other states? In fact there are many strange stories in the south about voodoo and the mystical people who practice it. Voodooism is about your total committment to the god and it requires you to sacrifice, for example, sacrifice animals and such. People do in fact drink the blood of the animals they kill. In fact, many people go into a frenzy during this period of pleasing the god that they get really hyper. This may have inspired the great Haitian revolt against the French, in which the best army in the world, the French army, was defeated people who believed in voodoo and were hyper at the time.
Superman is a cartoon, or a movie icon. Religion is thousands of years old and is followed by billions of people. I think there is quite a bit of difference between the two. Comfort isn't the only attribute of religion.
Just like I cannot prove to you god's existence, you certainly cannot prove to me that god doesn't exist. Oh wow, so believing in god makes one misguided? Then the millions of people who devote their lives solely to religion are extremely misguided then.
As long as people don't mock religion and the people who practice, I have no problems with atheists. There are many religious people who are truly bad human beings and the same could be said of atheists. But being religious or being a atheist does not make one that way, its just human nature.
This one kind of struck me as funny for some reason. So if a person says "god bless you, Taejin"🙂, will you serously get upset and throw a hissy fit?
I think people who say "god bless you" or "may god be with you" or whatever genuinely care for that person. At least most do. Also, not saying "god bless you" when someone sneezes is extremely rude. 😀
I understand some atheists do get uncomfortable when the word "god" is mentioned, but you have to realize that an overwhelming amount of people do believe in some sort of god or another.
C'mon. There are many other things you can pick and choose about religion, these things should not be given a priority.
I was kind of expecting for you to respond like that. Heh, well, as it is, my mom is church-attending (on her own schedule, she works at a christian hospital, Holy Cross Hospital), my dad believes a God exists, and my sister is religious leanings. Many/most of my friends are religious as well. I tend to be more intolerant of religious spoutings from people I don't know.
When people say "Bless you, child" or something of the sort, I take it for what they meant it to mean - good wishes. I may not like the method of delivery, but for what it's worth, I am pragmatic at least to this degree (hell, how would we live in this crazy world if not?!?).
And you're right, I do pick and choose, and religion is a battle I do not fight IRL. To give little things like these priority in real life is ridiculous, but if we're having an ideological discussion, then stuff like this does factor in. We also must remember that the Internet has a tendency to bring out the ugliest parts of ourselves, for better or for worse.
EDIT: And if I were to examine myself closely, I could not not mock religious people. Honestly, they look like some crazy person chasing after the rainbow, except we have millions of crazy people, and it's not so much funny as sad.. I think you need to understand that I view religious people in the same light I view a kid who believes in the Tooth fairy.
Also, I've always thought it strange that religious people can fundamentally be tolerant of one another (esp really differing religions). I mean, from each other's perspective, isn't the other insane/crazy/blasphemous/stupid/out of their mind? You can't have two religions coexisting ideologically, because there is only one truth, and someone's gotta be wrong (this is if we postulate that one religion is the truth).
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