Do you believe in the Devil?

[Elita1]

who said that the greatest trick the devil ever played is to convince mankind he didn't exist?
I've heard it mentioned once or twice.
Anyway, Y'all quit talkin' 'bout my daddy like that

 

[azazyel]

What did Jacob wrestle with? Versus please. I don't claim to be an expert on the bible (even though it may have seemed that way) and I really appreciate any opinions contrary to my own. What's faith if you can't challenge it.

 

[azazyel]

The Usual Suspects. Great Flick.

 

[Elita1]

Depending on what version you read, some texts say Jacob wrestled with an angel, and some say he wrestled with God.

 

[Elita1]

Azazyel:
St. Joseph's edition of the New American Bible calls it "Jacob's struggle with the Angel"
Genesis 32:23-33

 

[goshdarnindie]

azazyel, I'm impressed. We are getting somewhere.

From what I understand from your posts is you look at the Bible as merely a suggested way to live and not the word of God. If I'm wrong, then don't get offended by what follows. Therefore, by what seems to be your own admission, you are not a Christian. You can have whatever qualm you want with organized faiths under the Christian banner. But the all encompassing precepts are the same, and the most important one isn't to Love your neighbor as yourself, its to put God before all things (first commandment). Accept that he is your Lord and Savior, that he sent His Son to die for our sins and that only through him can we achieve everlasting life in Heaven.

Everything else, like the text you mentioned, comes with the territory. If a person believes in God as his Lord and Savior (i.e. Christian) then he will strive to do good things while on Earth.

I wouldn't blame that message on a patriachal society or tools for oppression. To be a Christian you must believe in God as your Lord and Savior to be saved. Otherwise, you spend an eternity with.... hmmm....

Oh, and God and the Devil aren't equals, I understand where your comeing from now on that issue, but satan exists alright, unfortunatly.

 

[Mikal]

Satan got kicked out of Heaven because he never turned his TPS reports in on time! It's time the truth came out!

 

[goshdarnindie]

God: Did you get that memo on the TPS reports
Satan: Yea, but I figured it could burn in hell with me and my minions
God: Right. Ok, cause we're putting a cover sheet on every TPS report now
Satan: Did you even hear me? I am tired of all this heaven stuff. I just want to do nothing
God: Uhmm, yea. Well, you can do that downstairs. See, we need to move your office to make room for someone else. So, just pack up your stuff and yea, take a can of bug spray to.

 

[azazyel]

Actually, I believe Jesus was the new covenant between man and god. It wiped away those old laws (there were many besides the 10, anyway I can nail almost any Christian on breaking all ten daily.) Remember God is in each of us believer and nonbeliever alike.

Hell, is another thing I don't believe in. I don't see it possible that my god of love would ever condemn one of his children to an eternity without him. Especially for things that have happened in this place. Instead I believe that we ALL go to a purgatory. A place where we are confronted by ever sin we have ever committed and feel the pain that we have caused others. I do not believe there is a person born who is righteous enough to stand in the presence of god. For those who do believe that they are, well there is always Dante's opinion of what will happen to them.

 

[ProviaFan]

Yes, I do.

 

[B00ne]

No certainly dont - would have to belive in god for that...

 

[SCUBA]

if u dont believe in devil then u dont believe in god so if u got a religeon then u got to belive in him

 

[skylark]

<< I never get involved in intellectual debates in this forum because it usually seems pointless, as I am sure this will end up being.

azazyel, you are not a Christian. I am sorry, you have been lied to. Christianity is the composition of several doctrines with each Catholic and Protestant faiths composing their own theology with regards to those doctrines. But to be a Christian you have to
A.) believe in the Bible - and not whether or not the Earth was created in 7 days or whether it was big bang, but that God created man.
B.) The fall of Man, perpetrated by the Devil, was bad. It seperated mankind from its intimate relationship with God. This self aware business is basically the realization of evil. Thats it. Until then, there was no suffering. We were just as intellegent then as we are now, its just now we have to use our intellegence to overcome adversity instead of being in communion with God.
C.) Jesus died on the cross to pay for our sins and win us back from the Devil. The Devil was not trying to help Jesus out in the desert. Read closer buddy, he was tempting Jesus to proclaim Satan as ruler of the Earth over God. You must have missed that part on public access.

So if your original post was incorrect about being a Christian, fine by me. But don't fool yourself. You may believe in God, but your not a Christian. As I stated before, all Christians perscribe to a set of stated doctrines. Go on-line and find a faith that holds beliefs similar to your won. >>



OH cripes, here we go again. Do you guys ever give up? lemme guess, the devil himself is a fallen angel, hey? you guys live in a fairy tale world called the Bible.

Believe and not oppose. Sounds like a tyrant to me. I rather talk to the Devil, than to God. I am not joking.

 

[azazyel]

BE A GOOD PERSON.

 

[b0mbrman]

If you believe in God, you have to believe in the devil. How can there be an ultimate good when there's no ultimate evil?

 

[yasha]

But didn't God create what turned into the Devil?
If you believe in that theory then you can't deny that evil came from God. So who are you really worshiping?

 

[lowfatbaconboy]

i think the devil is exactly like god
made up to keep people in line
devil - made so people be good and don't endure excruciating pain or whatever
god- if your good you get a lolly pop

why do you think i think it was constantine instated xianity ....to set morals to control the people via religion

 

[Wallydraigle]

<< &quot;The snake that cannot shed its skin perishes. So too with the minds who are prevented from changing their views; they cease to be minds.&quot; >>

 

[RaDragon]

<<

<<

<< There's no 'pure' or absolute evil, thus there's no 'devil'.

Get over it, it's just a myth to scare little children with. >>

so Elledan.... you're saying that murderers, fanatics, and just plain cold-blooded-killers are 'quasi-evil'?! :disgust: >>

Not quasi-evil. There's no 'evil' at all.

There are only events, which can be disadvantageous, advantageous, or neutral to an individual, group of individuals or object. Whether it's neutral or dis- or advantageous depends on time, place and person/object.

If someone decides to kill a bunch of people, it's disadvantageous for those people and maybe certain parts of the society they were part of. If the murderer gets killed, it's disadvantageous for him/her, unless s/he had planned this already. People like McVeigh, for example, are convinced that they're fighting against something which must be destroyed for some kind of reason. In their eyes, their actions are justified. We only call their actions a 'disaster' and the person who's responsible for it 'evil' because it's disadvantageous to the society which was in some way damaged.

McVeigh believed that he was right and that everything he did to accomplish his goals was justified. He was no more right than anyone else. >>

Elledan, all you did was explain that, things that go wrong (or people who have done wrong or were done wrong) is relative, e.g., based on the eye-of-the-beholder. Also, if you are convinced that there is no evil, do you believe that there is no 'good' either?

I believe in the different forms of evil and the sole personification of it (e.g., the devil). I also believe that there are different forms of good. And that these forms (of good and evil) are inherent in each of us -- some a little more prevalent than others.

 

[LordMaul]

Yup.

But I think there are TWO...

One started with &quot;M&quot; and ends with &quot;oderator&quot;.

 

[soapdish]

No. Not one damn bit.


Hell is wishful thinking. It is the ultimate form of delusion and revenge. &quot;He did me wrong, and I can't do anything about it, but he will rot in hell for that.&quot;

Nope. I don't rule out an after-life, but Hell -- no.



Pat Benatar(Hell is for children)

 

[Anghang]

Yes.

 

[azazyel]

<< &quot;The snake that cannot shed its skin perishes. So too with the minds who are prevented from changing their views; they cease to be minds.&quot; >>

Great quote!

 

[azazyel]

Isaiah 45

5
I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:
6
That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.
7
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

 

[Elledan]

<< Isaiah 45

5
I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:
6
That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.
7
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. >>

Which fantasy book is this quote from?