<< There's no 'pure' or absolute evil, thus there's no 'devil'.
Get over it, it's just a myth to scare little children with. >>
so Elledan.... you're saying that murderers, fanatics, and just plain cold-blooded-killers are 'quasi-evil'?! :disgust:
who are you... dr. evil?!
<< I am a Christian and I don't believe in the Devil. I think the idea is kinda stupid to begin with. To think that an Arch Angel could ever be eternally evil is beyond me. Also, the bible really dosen't support the idea of a devil. >>
Not the halloween variety of devil, but certainly it lends support to "the idea" of Satan.
Yes, I believe that the devil exists..now, if you'll excuse me, i'm here to see that book, the 9th ga.....
Not really, although I don't really have a strong opinion one way or the other. My idea is that the devil is more a personification of humankind's bad traits--those being laziness, selfishness, and insecurity.
l2c
l2c
azazyel
Diamond Member
- Oct 6, 2000
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<< Not the halloween variety of devil, but certainly it lends support to "the idea" of Satan. >>
Actually, that depends on your idea of Satan. Satan actually means "the accuser" in Hebrew. Most people believe that Satans are actually angels that temp humans like in the book of Job. But that still lends no evidence to a supreme evil.
Damn straight. Oh wait, probably shouldn't say damn.
The Bible is pretty clear to Christians about the existance of a Devil, so I don't know what whacked, version azazyel is reading. I mean the guy showed up in the Garden of Eden and then tried to tempt Jesus, and God basically gave a commandment against him (the first, if you read between the lines)
The Bible is pretty clear to Christians about the existance of a Devil, so I don't know what whacked,
version azazyel is reading. I mean the guy showed up in the Garden of Eden and then tried to tempt Jesus, and God basically gave a commandment against him (the first, if you read between the lines)
HomeBrewerDude
Lifer
- Jan 18, 2001
- 14,465
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<<
<< There's no 'pure' or absolute evil, thus there's no 'devil'.
Get over it, it's just a myth to scare little children with. >>
so Elledan.... you're saying that murderers, fanatics, and just plain cold-blooded-killers are 'quasi-evil'?! :disgust: >>
Not quasi-evil. There's no 'evil' at all.
There are only events, which can be disadvantageous, advantageous, or neutral to an individual, group of individuals or object. Whether it's neutral or dis- or advantageous depends on time, place and person/object.
If someone decides to kill a bunch of people, it's disadvantageous for those people and maybe certain parts of the society they were part of. If the murderer gets killed, it's disadvantageous for him/her, unless s/he had planned this already. People like McVeigh, for example, are convinced that they're fighting against something which must be destroyed for some kind of reason. In their eyes, their actions are justified. We only call their actions a 'disaster' and the person who's responsible for it 'evil' because it's disadvantageous to the society which was in some way damaged.
McVeigh believed that he was right and that everything he did to accomplish his goals was justified. He was no more right than anyone else.
Hamburgerpimp
Diamond Member
- Aug 15, 2000
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azazyel
Diamond Member
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1) Garden of Eden; please if you belive that the world was really created in 7 days you need a strait jacket not a religion. I beleive the story is sybolic. If you compare the big bang theory and Genesis you will find some simularities. Especially with the order thing were created. In regards to the devil in the garden of eden, he actually plays a very important role in this STORY. When Adam and Eve ate the fruit from the tree of knowlege some remarkable happened. They saw that they were naked. In my opinion this is when we (humans) were truely set apart from nature. We evolved self awareness, a very good thing in my opinion.
2) The temptation of Christ; My only thought is wouldn't you? If you saw your father or mother sitting in the desert would you try to help them? Imagine being an Arch Angel and seeing your god in the flesh of man, suffering as only a man can. Then to learn that these people who he came down to save were going to KILL him! What would you do? Yes, an angel tempted Christ but I would have as well.
2) The temptation of Christ; My only thought is wouldn't you? If you saw your father or mother sitting in the desert would you try to help them? Imagine being an Arch Angel and seeing your god in the flesh of man, suffering as only a man can. Then to learn that these people who he came down to save were going to KILL him! What would you do? Yes, an angel tempted Christ but I would have as well.
azazyel
Diamond Member
- Oct 6, 2000
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Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn (b.1918)
"If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart."
"If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart."
I never get involved in intellectual debates in this forum because it usually seems pointless, as I am sure this will end up being.
azazyel, you are not a Christian. I am sorry, you have been lied to. Christianity is the composition of several doctrines with each Catholic and Protestant faiths composing their own theology with regards to those doctrines. But to be a Christian you have to
A.) believe in the Bible - and not whether or not the Earth was created in 7 days or whether it was big bang, but that God created man.
B.) The fall of Man, perpetrated by the Devil, was bad. It seperated mankind from its intimate relationship with God. This self aware business is basically the realization of evil. Thats it. Until then, there was no suffering. We were just as intellegent then as we are now, its just now we have to use our intellegence to overcome adversity instead of being in communion with God.
C.) Jesus died on the cross to pay for our sins and win us back from the Devil. The Devil was not trying to help Jesus out in the desert. Read closer buddy, he was tempting Jesus to proclaim Satan as ruler of the Earth over God. You must have missed that part on public access.
So if your original post was incorrect about being a Christian, fine by me. But don't fool yourself. You may believe in God, but your not a Christian. As I stated before, all Christians perscribe to a set of stated doctrines. Go on-line and find a faith that holds beliefs similar to your won.
azazyel, you are not a Christian. I am sorry, you have been lied to. Christianity is the composition of several doctrines with each Catholic and Protestant faiths composing their own theology with regards to those doctrines. But to be a Christian you have to
A.) believe in the Bible - and not whether or not the Earth was created in 7 days or whether it was big bang, but that God created man.
B.) The fall of Man, perpetrated by the Devil, was bad. It seperated mankind from its intimate relationship with God. This self aware business is basically the realization of evil. Thats it. Until then, there was no suffering. We were just as intellegent then as we are now, its just now we have to use our intellegence to overcome adversity instead of being in communion with God.
C.) Jesus died on the cross to pay for our sins and win us back from the Devil. The Devil was not trying to help Jesus out in the desert. Read closer buddy, he was tempting Jesus to proclaim Satan as ruler of the Earth over God. You must have missed that part on public access.
So if your original post was incorrect about being a Christian, fine by me. But don't fool yourself. You may believe in God, but your not a Christian. As I stated before, all Christians perscribe to a set of stated doctrines. Go on-line and find a faith that holds beliefs similar to your won.
I believe in God, so there must be an opposite of God, therefore, I believe in the Devil/Satan. Like I believe in Heaven and Hell..
-- mrcodedude
-- mrcodedude
I'm Christian, and do believe in a devil.
azazyel:
I don't understand your thinking... The bible doesn't support the idea of a devil? Who did Jacob wrestle with? When Jesus cast out "devils", what was he casting out? Who tempted Christ? A 'good' angel would not have tempted Christ. What does Isaiah mean when he saw the Son of the Morning fall from heaven? I'm just trying to understand your thinking ...
azazyel:
I don't understand your thinking... The bible doesn't support the idea of a devil? Who did Jacob wrestle with? When Jesus cast out "devils", what was he casting out? Who tempted Christ? A 'good' angel would not have tempted Christ. What does Isaiah mean when he saw the Son of the Morning fall from heaven? I'm just trying to understand your thinking ...
azazyel
Diamond Member
- Oct 6, 2000
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Those were some very good points and we may just end up disagreeing which is just fine. However, I am sorry if that is really your definition Christianity. When I think of my religion I don't think of the bible or the church. In fact I think that when people get to dependant on those things they tend to loose their faith. People tend to forget that god is all around them and not contained in building or a book.
You are right I have completely forsaken all of those "doctrines" set by the catholic church. How could I not? They who have chosen what is worthy for their sheep to learn from. Banning books that offer a different interpretation of events. But the fact remains that I believe in my god and my savior more than most Christians ever could. This may be wrong but there is only one part of the Bible that truly means anything to me anymore.
John 15:12
This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you
This is all that counts isn't it? This is the lesson that we should all strive to achieve. I don't believe in the devil because my god has no adversary. Also, I don't need to go looking for evil because if I do I will find it. Instead I try to search for the good. It's always more rewarding in the end.
You are right I have completely forsaken all of those "doctrines" set by the catholic church. How could I not? They who have chosen what is worthy for their sheep to learn from. Banning books that offer a different interpretation of events. But the fact remains that I believe in my god and my savior more than most Christians ever could. This may be wrong but there is only one part of the Bible that truly means anything to me anymore.
John 15:12
This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you
This is all that counts isn't it? This is the lesson that we should all strive to achieve. I don't believe in the devil because my god has no adversary. Also, I don't need to go looking for evil because if I do I will find it. Instead I try to search for the good. It's always more rewarding in the end.
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