Do we need harsher punishment for violent criminals in the US?

[BoberFett]

We should have harsher punishments, eliminate the death penalty, and we should fewer crimes that call for prison time. End the drug war for one, that will clean out our prisons in no time. Actually make killers and rapists do hard time, keep them away from the public.

 

[Nemesis 1]

If this is sarcasm, good show pretty funny..

if this isn't and you don't see it's not the year 1640 LMFAO!!!

OK seems harsh . Give them california. We kill 2 birds with 1 stone . If ya get my meaning.

 

[ichy]

I fail to see why we need to start increasing penalties at this time, let alone taking on draconian punishments as the OP suggests. Crime has gone down in this country 16 of the last 18 years and is on trend to hit 1960 levels in 5 years time. Furthermore, In Europe violent crime is punished not half of what it is here, and in most European countries the rate of violent crime is lower than here. This is the 21st century. I don't want to return to the dark ages, or sharia law.

Singapore has even lower crime rates, and they have the harshest punishments in the developed world.

Europe may still have lower crime rates than the US, but they're going up thanks to the wonders of out of control immigration from Muslim countries.

 

[ichy]

Execute anyone convicted of three violent felonies. People like that are clearly incapable of ever functioning as law-abiding members of society.

BTW, whenever I have second thoughts about the DP I just watch a documentary or read an article about prisons such as Pelican Bay in California. We spend an insane amount of money trying to keep scumbag gangbangers from harming others, yet even in our harshest prisons they continue to order violence against others. It's crazy that we spend so much money on keeping worthless people alive when we could just kill them. I am so sick and tired of this ridiculous notion that everybody's life has value.

 

[ichy]

So your not happy with having the largest prison population per capita in the world? What % of the population being in jail would you be happy with? 50%? 75%? 90%? Should we even bother jailing them or should we just exterminate these useless mouth breathers?

If we ended our failed war on drugs we could probably triple the penalties for violent crimes while at the same time slashing prison populations.

 

[woolfe9999]

or jewish law. burning, stoning, decapitation, strangulation...... dark enough for ya? :\

http://www.jlaw.com/Briefs/capital2.html

Or Medieval Christian law, where people were tortured in various nasty ways. The difference is that Sharia law is still practiced today.

 

[woolfe9999]

Singapore has even lower crime rates, and they have the harshest punishments in the developed world.

Europe may still have lower crime rates than the US, but they're going up thanks to the wonders of out of control immigration from Muslim countries.

Singapore is also a small island, and they fund law enforcement quite handomsely. I doubt their low crime is entirely a function of the draconian penalties.

So far as Europe goes, if Muslim immigration is increasing crime that is kind of irrelevant to the discussion of penalties since obviously their light penalties aren't the problem.

 

[woolfe9999]

It's about right at the moment except we should take a different approach to drugs and stop the lord of the flies atmosphere in prison. If it's true the way people are raped and just generally mistreated in prison is barbaric. If anything, that's just going to make them worse when they get out.



I don't think that fact is as informative as you think it might be. Singapore has harsh punishments and is a very safe country. Europe has a lot more petty crime in my experience and in any case they have more social programs and less diversity so I'm not sure you can compare the two.

I've responded re: Singapore in my post above. I think it's interesting that you consider US/Euorpe to be apples to oranges but not US/Singapore. There are many things about Singapore which make it a special case apart from their draconian penalties.

In any event, my overarching point is that crime is on a downward trend going on 2 decades now and there is no reason to assume the trend will not continue at least into the near future. If it isn't broke, why try to fix it?

 

[Infohawk]

I've responded re: Singapore in my post above. I think it's interesting that you consider US/Euorpe to be apples to oranges but not US/Singapore. There are many things about Singapore which make it a special case apart from their draconian penalties.

In any event, my overarching point is that crime is on a downward trend going on 2 decades now and there is no reason to assume the trend will not continue at least into the near future. If it isn't broke, why try to fix it?

All I'm doing is questioning your conclusion that harsh punishments don't matter because Europe has lower crime rates and has lower punishments. Following YOUR logic than Singapore's experience should also be important. But really you're reasoning is also flawed because one could also suggest that crime in Europe would be even lower if they had harsher penalties. We can learn by comparing and contrasting all countries but it's not sufficient to say Europe has lower crime rates, therefore harsh penalties don't lower crime rates.

 

[woolfe9999]

All I'm doing is questioning your conclusion that harsh punishments don't matter because Europe has lower crime rates and has lower punishments. Following YOUR logic than Singapore's experience should also be important. But really you're reasoning is also flawed because one could also suggest that crime in Europe would be even lower if they had harsher penalties. We can learn by comparing and contrasting all countries but it's not sufficient to say Europe has lower crime rates, therefore harsh penalties don't lower crime rates.

Yeah the problem is that this is a straw man. The way you are characterizing my position is more extreme then how it was originally stated. You essentially inferred a sweeping conclusion from the factual material I presented.

Crime rates are not mono-causal. A wide variety of different factors may impact crime, possibly 10 or more different factors, of which penalties is one. What the European example means is that high penalties do not guarentee low crime, and low penalties do not guarentee high crime. I think with certain people there is a pre-occuption with draconian penalties because it suits them emotionally, and such people tend to ignore other factors that affect crime rates. At best, penalties is one factor of many and I see no evidence that it is more important than any of the other factors.

And again my main point that is being ignored: crime is going DOWN in the US every year for going on 2 decades now. The only reason I can see people advocating that we suddenly start amputating penises and limbs is that they enjoy fantasizing about such things.

- wolf

 

[AyashiKaibutsu]

I'm sorry but people committing crimes either A: don't think about the consequences at all or B: assume they won't get caught. You need some degree of penalties or people who overwise wouldn't commit crimes might start, but insanely harsh punishments for anything but repeat offenders is not going to lower crime rates.

You also need some way to reverse punishments for when mistakes are made. Are we going to let people cane the judge after it was shown he was innocent later?

 

[bfdd]

We need to bring in our prison spending and make prisons hell again. Sure it's bad because of all the rape, but these fucks have access to TV and the internet, sports and athletics, education etc. Not to mention they get fed better than our children at public schools. It's pathetic and I blame all you pussies who give to much of a fuck about what people do in their lives for making prisons so pussy. waaah people do drugs lock them up with people who rape and murder, but don't treat them so bad because they aren't violent criminals. dipshits.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Its like a Ball game . I can understand how a play is missed . But when I penility is called were there was none . Gives me pause to think Why the offical can see something that didn't happen . Thats hard to explain without $$$ being involved

 

[AyashiKaibutsu]

We need to bring in our prison spending and make prisons hell again. Sure it's bad because of all the rape, but these fucks have access to TV and the internet, sports and athletics, education etc. Not to mention they get fed better than our children at public schools. It's pathetic and I blame all you pussies who give to much of a fuck about what people do in their lives for making prisons so pussy. waaah people do drugs lock them up with people who rape and murder, but don't treat them so bad because they aren't violent criminals. dipshits.

Creating cruel inhuman beings in prison and then releasing them back into society when they're done with their time doesn't make any sense.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

Our prisons and really, entire judicial system, revolves around private enterprise. It's not what is best for you or I or society, but what makes them the most money. Period.

 

[CitizenKain]

We need to bring in our prison spending and make prisons hell again. Sure it's bad because of all the rape, but these fucks have access to TV and the internet, sports and athletics, education etc. Not to mention they get fed better than our children at public schools. It's pathetic and I blame all you pussies who give to much of a fuck about what people do in their lives for making prisons so pussy. waaah people do drugs lock them up with people who rape and murder, but don't treat them so bad because they aren't violent criminals. dipshits.

Little manchild talking shit about how easy prison is, how funny. You seem really focused on rape too, which seems odd. Then again, you are probably the type who is for it.

 

[Chaosblade02]

Yeah I agree that if you commit 3 felonies on separate occasions, you should get a lethal injection. I don't see the point in keeping career criminals around, just execute them. Call the policy 3 strikes and you are OUT.

Crimes like rape and child predators should not only serve very harsh prison sentences, but also be castrated. 25 years to life sounds about right for a child molester. I am not a fan of the life without parole sentence. Instead of that, just give them a lethal injection so they don't get free room and board as 3 meals a day for the rest of their life. This would help clean out the prisons. Some of the most violent criminals in prison are lifers, because they simply got nothing to lose.

Extend the death penalty to more offenses. Someone who rapes multiple people, or molests more than one child should get death. 1st degree murder should be death penalty.

Lethal injection is about the most humane way you can euthanize someone. Which is what separates 1600s, from the 21st century.

Prison should be hard labor, chain gangs picking up trash on the road and go around and do public service to help pay for their meals. Some states the prisoners farm and grow their own food and can it and eat it, I am for programs like this to help alleviate the tax payer from expenses. No TV in prison. No basic luxuries at all. Prison is not a fucking country club, they go out and work 7 days a week in hard labor. Sun up till sun down. They should work you like a slave in the 1850s. The prisoners will be too busy doing hard labor to stir up shit and fight each other in the yard. Perhaps a prisoner will learn a good work ethic in prison by being forced to do hard labor for their entire sentence, this is what I call education and training. Maybe they could then go get a job on a construction crew, and the labor would seem easy to them because they are conditioned for it.

Violent criminals or sex offenders shouldn't be eligible for parole, they should serve their time entirely. 25 years will actually be 25 years. If someone is 40 or over, I guess we could give them the option of serving 25 years, or to just take a lethal injection.

 

[CitizenKain]

Prison should be hard labor, chain gangs picking up trash on the road and go around and do public service to help pay for their meals. Some states the prisoners farm and grow their own food and can it and eat it, I am for programs like this to help alleviate the tax payer from expenses. No TV in prison. No basic luxuries at all. Prison is not a fucking country club, they go out and work 7 days a week in hard labor. Sun up till sun down. They should work you like a slave in the 1850s. The prisoners will be too busy doing hard labor to stir up shit and fight each other in the yard. Perhaps a prisoner will learn a good work ethic in prison by being forced to do hard labor for their entire sentence, this is what I call education and training. Maybe they could then go get a job on a construction crew, and the labor would seem easy to them because they are conditioned for it.

Violent criminals or sex offenders shouldn't be eligible for parole, they should serve their time entirely. 25 years will actually be 25 years. If someone is 40 or over, I guess we could give them the option of serving 25 years, or to just take a lethal injection.

Another stupid person who thinks prison is some sort of fun retreat. If you want to live in country like that, move to Iran and get the fuck out.

 

[Chaosblade02]

Another stupid person who thinks prison is some sort of fun retreat. If you want to live in country like that, move to Iran and get the fuck out.

Oh cry me a river if criminals have to do hard labor, instead of having cable TV in their prison cells. Hard labor is the best kind of rehabilitation. It makes them prove to themselves that they might actually be able to work for a living instead of being a pest to society.

 

[kranky]

I agree that there is not enough punishment for many crimes, which only emboldens criminals. There used to be, though.

If one of your family committed a crime and went to jail your entire family was embarrassed and shamed. It was a stigma. People would not want to associate with you. That peer pressure was a strong deterrent, maybe more than spending a couple of months in jail. Not wanting to bring shame to the entire family was a reason to not turn to crime.

Not any more. In some areas of the city, having a criminal record is actually something to be envied. You get street cred. It's exactly the same principal as before, only in reverse. Knowing that you will get a slap on the wrist for robbing a store, along with the added bonus of being elevated in status in your neighborhood, is just an encouragement to be a criminal.

I don't know if chopping off hands, public flogging, hard labor or having your forehead branded with a "C" is the answer, but it seems obvious that you cannot legislate away crime with more laws and harsher sentences. People have to be discouraged from being a criminal, and the current program simply does not work.

What I think would work is an environment like "Escape from New York". Put the violent criminals in a segregated area, provide food and water, then let them formulate their own society. I'm sure it would be a very nasty place to be, but I think it would be an effective deterrent. Even someone who thinks they are the baddest of the bad wouldn't think they could go into a place like that and simply run the show.

We better find a solution to this because it's obvious that criminals are becoming less fearful of arrest and prison.

 

[alkemyst]

It's not that our laws are that bad it's that there are too many bleeding hearts and not enough qualified people willing to stand for a jury trial.

IMHO we should never allow criminals on the streets because incarceration is too pricey, raise taxes and build more prisons if needed. Also IMHO there are too many fringe benefits in prison. We have to serve them top quality food, provide college, and non-critical medical treatment.

 

[CallMeJoe]

Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

 

[bfdd]

Little manchild talking shit about how easy prison is, how funny. You seem really focused on rape too, which seems odd. Then again, you are probably the type who is for it.

I know plenty of people who have gone to prison, most don't want to go back, not because it was so bad, but because they like their freedom. Learned a trade or something and came back to be part of society. Also, any prisoner who doesn't try to kill their rapist(or at least die trying) is a weak person and most likely probably shouldn't have gone to prison. If prison is only for our hardest of criminals, who gives a fuck how bad the conditions are? Fuck them. Found guilty of murder? you took from society, so society takes from you, fuck you rot in prison on your 2 pieces of bread and water a day.

you sound like some butthurt fool tbh.

 

[alkemyst]

I know plenty of people who have gone to prison, most don't want to go back, not because it was so bad, but because they like their freedom. Learned a trade or something and came back to be part of society. Also, any prisoner who doesn't try to kill their rapist(or at least die trying) is a weak person and most likely probably shouldn't have gone to prison. If prison is only for our hardest of criminals, who gives a fuck how bad the conditions are? Fuck them. Found guilty of murder? you took from society, so society takes from you, fuck you rot in prison on your 2 pieces of bread and water a day.

you sound like some butthurt fool tbh.

lol dude. You don't get 2 pieces of bread and just water in prison...most that get raped do try to fight it off. You know no one that 'went to prison' except maybe in Second Life.

 

[Throckmorton]

Forced integration with HIV+ prisoners who can and will assrape you isn't cruel and unusual enough for you OP?