Do overclocked CPU cores get worse over time?

[nullpointerus]

Originally posted by: CTho9305

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: jX

total absolute nonsense ... OCing is not "hit or miss" although the final results may vary

perhaps it is "hit or miss" -- for you

everyone who does it right has good luck . ... some better than others

I agree. It's like driving. as long as you're a good driver you'll never have an accident.

Oh, wait, I guess that's not how it is at all...

CTho's right. Not all chips can be pushed very far at all, some can go for ages. My A64 managed to take a full 20% push on the FSB speed with nary a hiccup, no need to mess with voltage, watercooling, etc. granted I-have a very decent cooler to start with, but I just pushed the FSB from 200 ro 240 and the chip was fine, not a single issue, and barely a degree warmer. However, some chips just can't be pushed far at all.

I grant you there's a right way and wrong way, but since you're taking the chip beyond it's specifications by the very nature of overclocking, there's ZERO guarantee you'll succeed. A good likelihood you'll succeed, but no guarantee. It _is_ hit and miss.

you guys aren't really overclockers
-most of you - by your replies - don't have a clue about it - just misconceptions

you are wrong ... you will almost ALWAYS get an OC if you do your research BEFORE you buy your CPU and you must know what MB to get as well as the RAM and appropriate cooling

the way *you* do it IS hit-or miss
--the way *i* do it is 100% guaranteed [along with all the experienced guys here]

stick around - keep an open mind ... we can help you OverClock successfully ... you are in the right place
--and welcome to ATF !

In my book "almost always" and "always" are the difference between "hit and miss" and "guaranteed".

When the phrase "hit or miss" was first introduced into the discussion, it referred to whether the overclock would be stable enough to not adversely affect everyday usage. Now, it means whether or not a high OC is achieved, irregardless of stability. IMO this shift in the meaning of the terms is confusing and unproductive because it will likely lead to a flamewar--or at least a long off-topic discussion.


EDIT: Fixed the darned quotes in this post, too.

 

[CTho9305]

Originally posted by: nullpointerus
When the phrase "hit or miss" was first introduced into the discussion, it referred to whether the overclock would be stable enough to not adversely affect everyday usage. Now, it means whether or not a high OC is achieved, irregardless of stability. IMO this shift in the meaning of the terms is confusing and unproductive because it will likely lead to a flamewar--or at least a long off-topic discussion.

It's meaningless to not set a lower limit on how much you have to OC - you'd never notice a 5% OC without running benchmarks.

1) it's hit or miss whether you can push a chip beyond some threshold of meaningfulness without raising the voltage / blowing big $$$ on cooling
2) it's hit or miss whether an OCed system that appears stable will remain stable and will really work perfectly (you've really gotta love all those "my OCed machine is rock solid under windows, but crashes in linux unless I stop overclocking... linux must be unstable" people).

EDIT: Fixed the darned quotes in this post, too.

You have to wonder why anyone would pay money for FuseTalk.

 

[nullpointerus]

1. Shifting the meaning of the terms mid-debate is still a bad idea.
2. Current low/mid-price C2D's are virtually guaranteed a decent OC.
3. Crazy OC's (well in excess of 10%) are quite common.
4. Overclockers pick good OC hardware and trade/sell what doesn't OC well until they get something that works--at much lower total cost.

So it's not hit or miss in either of the two definitions in use here.

 

[StopSign]

Every E6300/6400 will overclock to at least 2.6 GHz, which in my opinion is a "meaningful" increase in performance. Each and every one of these chips will reach that level at stock voltage and will be perfectly stable.

CTho9305, unless you can disprove the above, your argument is wrong. By disprove, I mean find me ONE E6300 or E6400 that failed to overclock to 2.6 GHz at stock voltage.

 

[imported_jX]

you guys aren't really overclockers
-most of you - by your replies - don't have a clue about it - just misconceptions

That's funny. I was building water cooling rigs for desktops in 1996. I overclocked my 286 in the late 80's. I've been working professionally for15 years now in this industry. That's not counting hobby time, just how long I've been paid for it.

I won't speak to CTho's experience, but suffice it to say he knows more about CPU theory than I do. And you. And 97% of the people here.

you are wrong ... you will almost ALWAYS get an OC if you do your research BEFORE you buy your CPU and you must know what MB to get as well as the RAM and appropriate cooling

I think you know damn well that's not what CTho nor I were speaking about. You made it sound like every CPU that comes off the line was OC-able, and CTho and I were correcting your misconception there. However, yes, if you specifically purchase special CPUs for the explicit intent of overclocking them, certainly you'll have a 100% hit ratio. But even that proves the point that CTho and I were making, in that not all CPUs are equal in OC-ability. We were talking about CPUs in general, not unlocked Athlon FXs or specific runs of Core 2s, etc.

Thanks for your offer of help, but it's not needed. I'm quite experienced, and have the magic smoke scars to prove it.

 

[CTho9305]

2. Current low/mid-price C2D's are virtually guaranteed a decent OC.
...
So it's not hit or miss in either of the two definitions in use here.

"Virtually", like "almost", takes you back to the hit-or-miss realm.

Originally posted by: StopSign
Every E6300/6400 will overclock to at least 2.6 GHz, which in my opinion is a "meaningful" increase in performance. Each and every one of these chips will reach that level at stock voltage and will be perfectly stable.

CTho9305, unless you can disprove the above, your argument is wrong. By disprove, I mean find me ONE E6300 or E6400 that failed to overclock to 2.6 GHz at stock voltage.

Buy 10,000 E6300s. OC all of them to 2.6GHz (stock voltage / air cooling) for a year. If, after that time, any one fails to properly run any program I can find / write, I get all the CPUs. If after two years, the failure rate is more than double Intel's normal failure rate, I get all the CPUs. If they all work, I buy you 10,000 new equivalent-price CPUs. Would you take a bet like that? I sure as hell wouldn't.

I don't have the funds to disprove your argument....do you have the funds to prove it? If not, demanding proof is silly.

 

[StopSign]

Would you take a bet like that?

Sure I would. You gotta be crazy to turn that deal down.

I don't need funds to prove my argument. I know how C2Ds work and how overclock-friendly they are. You, on the other hand, obviously do not as shown by the rejection of your proposed bet.

 

[apoppin]

In my book "almost always" and "always" are the difference between "hit and miss" and "guaranteed".

sorry ... lets just change it to *always* then ... sorry for the 'almost' that is for the weak sisters among us--
--not i

thanks for explaining what you meant, jx ... how could i "know"? - you are new here and i can only read what you post, i am not psychic
... i never mentioned "equal" overclockability ... you did

and i don't think you have a clue what i "know" ... again ... certainly not from reading your posts i would have never guessed at your "experience"

 

[nullpointerus]

Originally posted by: CTho9305

2. Current low/mid-price C2D's are virtually guaranteed a decent OC.
...
So it's not hit or miss in either of the two definitions in use here.

"Virtually", like "almost", takes you back to the hit-or-miss realm.

You have been warned several times that the "point" you are trying to make *now* has nothing to do with the *original* discussion, but I continued talking to you to correct some of the emotionally-charged nonsense you were posting. However, when you mispresent my conclusion by cutting out part of my post, you prove yourself no longer capable of productive two-way conversation on this topic.

:thumbsdown:

For those caught up in CTho and Jx's flurry of irrelevant posts, I believe apoppin's original point is that overclocking makes sense for some people--those who know how to do their research, test their overclocks, and deal with the lack of warranties and occasional duds.

/discussion

 

[imported_jX]

i am not psychic

Excuses excuses.

 

[apoppin]

and deal with the lack of warranties and occasional duds

those can be eliminated if you test your CPU thoroghly before you OC it ... and do not increase the voltage until you are absolutely sure of the maximum performance at stock voltage ... too many impatient "would be" OC'ers crank up the voltage the minute they get it, burn out their CPU, get turned down by RMA for OBVIOUS reasons then whine to the forum how OC'erclocking stinks and doesn't work

it doesn't ... and it DOES work ... guaranteed ... the "how much" is the only variable in the OC

Overclocking is science as much as art ... and many of you unimaginative - supposedly experienced - "system builders" are no artists

Excuses excuses.

no one can read your mind .. it is bad enough we have to put up with your nonsense about OC'ing besides having to also guess at what you meant to say

 

[imported_jX]

no one can read your mind .. it is bad enough we have to put up with your nonsense about OC'ing besides having to also guess at what you meant to say

Put it away, junior, I was making a joke about the mind reading. I like how you cut off the smiley. Way to change the meaning.

What I said about OCing was not nonsense. As you yourself said, "Overclocking is science as much as art" and as with any art, you must use the proper tools to create your masterpiece. And that's what I said. I apologize for the confusion, but that's all I'm saying. Not EVERY chip can be pushed out of spec. As you did say, you have to get the right part.

If you really believe that every single CPU can be overclocked, then I doubt anything anyone says will change that.

I'm not a "system builder" anymore. That was a good spot to be in ten years ago, but the big boys have driven the margins too thin for most small builders to profit from, unless you're a niche builder (enthusiast, high-end workstations, high-end servers, exotic setups, etc). I migrated to web technologies as that's still skill based, rather than slapping parts together in a cheap case and calling it a day.

Lastly, I'm more of an artist than you obviously think. As I said, I was building water cooling systems ten years ago (literally, not figuratively), long before there were parts on the shelf to put one together. I've hardhacked systems you've never heard of. Not everyone you disagree with is an idiot, and you'd be well served to remember that.

 

[StopSign]

Since you've been out of the loop for so long, you really shouldn't be arguing about the behavior of modern hardware. Have you actually seen a C2D getting overclocked "way beyond specs"? It really is that easy. It really is guaranteed. C2Ds are the best overclockers of all time.

 

[Laminator]

Says the guy with the E6300 at 2.94GHz @ 1.21v.

 

[imported_jX]

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Since you've been out of the loop for so long</end quote></div>

Where the hell did you get this? Who said I was out of the loop?

Again, Core 2 Duos and Quads are not the only CPUs on the market, by the way. Bottom line, ALL CPUs are not OC-able. That's all I ever tried to say. I'm not saying all Core 2s, but all as in all. Great, Core 2's are good OCers. There are a lot of other chips on the market now and before today.

Editing out a question I don't want answered. No, I don't own a top of the line Core 2 Duo or Quad. I'm quite happy with my current A64. Stock it's 2.2GHz, it's currently pushed to 2.75 with no overvoltage at all, and I haven't even tried pushing it further yet. However, I have indeed worked with C2D and C2Qs. Do I now meet with your approval? I'm not going to argue with people who would prefer to insult instead. Sure, if you carefully shop, you'll have great success. Smart shoppers do just that. But I stand by my statement that there's no guarantee you'll successfully OC any random chip you find without careful prescreening. That's been my only statement so far, and that's all I have to say.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: jX

no one can read your mind .. it is bad enough we have to put up with your nonsense about OC'ing besides having to also guess at what you meant to say

Put it away, junior, I was making a joke about the mind reading. I like how you cut off the smiley. Way to change the meaning.

What I said about OCing was not nonsense. As you yourself said, "Overclocking is science as much as art" and as with any art, you must use the proper tools to create your masterpiece. And that's what I said. I apologize for the confusion, but that's all I'm saying. Not EVERY chip can be pushed out of spec. As you did say, you have to get the right part.

If you really believe that every single CPU can be overclocked, then I doubt anything anyone says will change that.

I'm not a "system builder" anymore. That was a good spot to be in ten years ago, but the big boys have driven the margins too thin for most small builders to profit from, unless you're a niche builder (enthusiast, high-end workstations, high-end servers, exotic setups, etc). I migrated to web technologies as that's still skill based, rather than slapping parts together in a cheap case and calling it a day.

Lastly, I'm more of an artist than you obviously think. As I said, I was building water cooling systems ten years ago (literally, not figuratively), long before there were parts on the shelf to put one together. I've hardhacked systems you've never heard of. Not everyone you disagree with is an idiot, and you'd be well served to remember that.

junior yourself ...

i still disagree ... every single modern CPU available that is not defective or 'locked' can be successfully OC'd
-the *how far* is the ONLY variable ... +1Mhz or 1000+ is still an OC.

building water-cooled systems doesn't say anything other then you can follow directions ... it's the content of your posts that others judge you by

 

[imported_jX]

building water-cooled systems doesn't say anything other then you can follow directions

Quite correct. However, in 96, there were no instructions for the hobbyist to follow, since we were blazing new paths.

i still disagree ... every single modern CPU available that is not defective or 'locked'

Again you qualify my argument. This will be the last time I repeat this because I believe you are either purposefully obtuse, or just unable to grasp the concept of all.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: jX
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>building water-cooled systems doesn't say anything other then you can follow directions</end quote></div>

Quite correct. However, in 96, there were no instructions for the hobbyist to follow, since we were blazing new paths.

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>i still disagree ... every single modern CPU available that is not defective or 'locked'</end quote></div>

Again you qualify my argument. This will be the last time I repeat this because I believe you are either purposefully obtuse, or just unable to grasp the concept of all.

no ... you are qualifying mine ... all cpus can be overclocked - unless they are purposefully made not to

what is it that you cannot grasp about my simple statement?
--the "follow-up" is that some CPUs OC better then others ... and if you do your homework you will be 100% successful all of the time

 

[kzrssk]

Turn up your air conditioner. It's summer

 

[VERTIGGO]

If I may say something... there's no need to bicker about who has more experience OCing or how right or wrong everyone is, I think we all agree that most CPUs (C2D most of all) will overclock past intended spec whether it requires higher voltage or not, and that some of those will puke out sooner than others. Hit or miss meaning that you can't just buy an E6600 for example and be guaranteed the exact OC and level of stability as the next guy with an E6600. When it comes down to details, almost all CPUs will OC, but it's a gamble how far they will go.

 

[imported_jX]

I would not be surprised if he's overclocked more systems than I have, I've only done maybe a 10-12 over the years. I don't do it all the time, only for fun when I feel like it, etc. I just resent being told I'm out of the loop when he has no clue about me.

However, I encourage him to help this chap who can't seem to hit 2.6 reliably: http://forums.anandtech.com/me...id=28&threadid=2066487