Do I have to tip the movers?

[amoeba]

Originally posted by: torpid

Originally posted by: amoeba

Originally posted by: torpid

Originally posted by: amoeba

Originally posted by: nakedfrog

Originally posted by: amoeba

Originally posted by: compman25
Are they paid less than minimum wage like waiters? No? Then no tip.

I hate it when people bring this up because its plainly not true. Waiters make at least minimum wage.

http://www.dol.gov/dol/topic/wages/wagestips.htm

That's being anal, everyone knows that when you say that you're referring to federal minimum wage.

Please read the above link. if the minimum wage of $2.13 + your tips is less than the federal minimum wage, your employer is required to make up the difference. So no waiter will make less than federal minimum wage. That is a fact that that is often missed in tipping threads.

It's only mildly relevant. If their income is derived largely from tips, without which they would at best make minimum wage, then you should tip them. Few people can actually survive on minimum wage.

The point that few people can actually survive on minimum wage is moot. Maybe you should start tipping the cashier at your supermarket or the bagboy or the Mcd's guy to make up for it. That is your business.

You don't tip the bag boy? What a tightass. I see that your brain fails to comprehend the part above about income derived largely from tips. I can offer no other explanation for the moot part. A waitress is assumed to make well over minimum wage and their job deserves such pay. It's in the tax laws and everything that their income is derived from tips. A better analogy would be to underpaying the guy at mcdonalds when you order a big mac every time.

The point is that a waitstaff's total income per pay period is NEVER less than federal minimum wage and that is a clarification that needs to be made in these tipping threads.

Actually this is bullshit. Just because they are legally required to make up the pay doesn't mean employers do. Please learn to differentiate from laws and what people actually do.

Why don't you stick to the topic at hand? The original post I was replying to said that he only tips those who would make less than minimum wage if they weren't tipped at all. I countered by saying that is impossible and that it is protected by federal law. If an employer is breaking these laws it would be no different than a factory owner running a sweatshop.

If you want to talk about whether you think waitstaff wages are too high or too low thats another issue separately.

And no, I don't tip the bagboy unless if he goes above and beyond what he is already paid to do. He is paid by the store to bag my groceries. If he takes it out to the car, etc, I tip him. Otherwise, no I probably do not.

 

[torpid]

Originally posted by: amoeba

Originally posted by: torpid

Originally posted by: amoeba

Originally posted by: torpid

Originally posted by: amoeba

Originally posted by: nakedfrog

Originally posted by: amoeba

Originally posted by: compman25
Are they paid less than minimum wage like waiters? No? Then no tip.

I hate it when people bring this up because its plainly not true. Waiters make at least minimum wage.

http://www.dol.gov/dol/topic/wages/wagestips.htm

That's being anal, everyone knows that when you say that you're referring to federal minimum wage.

Please read the above link. if the minimum wage of $2.13 + your tips is less than the federal minimum wage, your employer is required to make up the difference. So no waiter will make less than federal minimum wage. That is a fact that that is often missed in tipping threads.

It's only mildly relevant. If their income is derived largely from tips, without which they would at best make minimum wage, then you should tip them. Few people can actually survive on minimum wage.

The point that few people can actually survive on minimum wage is moot. Maybe you should start tipping the cashier at your supermarket or the bagboy or the Mcd's guy to make up for it. That is your business.

You don't tip the bag boy? What a tightass. I see that your brain fails to comprehend the part above about income derived largely from tips. I can offer no other explanation for the moot part. A waitress is assumed to make well over minimum wage and their job deserves such pay. It's in the tax laws and everything that their income is derived from tips. A better analogy would be to underpaying the guy at mcdonalds when you order a big mac every time.

The point is that a waitstaff's total income per pay period is NEVER less than federal minimum wage and that is a clarification that needs to be made in these tipping threads.

Actually this is bullshit. Just because they are legally required to make up the pay doesn't mean employers do. Please learn to differentiate from laws and what people actually do.

Why don't you stick to the topic at hand? The original post I was replying to said that he only tips those who would make less than minimum wage if they weren't tipped at all. I countered by saying that is impossible and that it is protected by federal law. If an employer is breaking these laws it would be no different than a factory owner running a sweatshop.

I am sticking to the topic at hand. You are arguing pointless semantics and using irrational semantic arguments in the process. Their employer pays them less than minimum wage on the assumption that tips make up for it. You choose to interpret it as meaning their take home income is less than minimum wage when he did not state it and then go off on a pointless diatribe which is not at all relevant to this topic. He said only that they are paid less than minimum wage, which is true. The original statement is perfectly reasonable...

And again, it is not impossible. It is very possible. Stop using words like "impossible". If it's possible, it's not impossible. It does happen, and thus your capitalized "NEVER" is also incorrect.

And no, I don't tip the bagboy unless if he goes above and beyond what he is already paid to do. He is paid by the store to bag my groceries. If he takes it out to the car, etc, I tip him. Otherwise, no I probably do not.

So you do tip them then. I guess your statement above is erroneous then. Thanks for clarifying. It would seem that you simply do not have the ability to speak/write in anything but black and white. NEVER / impossible / don't tip the bagboy.

 

[lokiju]

I'd only tip based off of the level of service received.

If they did an amazing job and exceeded my expectations, then I'd tip them.

If they were late, had a bad attitude and did a bad job, then I'd not tip them.

 

[Vehemence]

For movers I just cruise outside Home Depot and then pay them with Big Macs. Much cheaper and everyone wins.

 

[JDub02]

Originally posted by: amoeba

Originally posted by: JDub02
My company paid to move me from Pittsburgh to VA Beach. The movers hauled all my stuff plus my truck and my motorcycle.

The move in day was in June and a hot VA summer day (~95 degrees and humid) and my apartment is on the 2nd floor around some tight stairs.

I gave the 2 movers $50 each.

Depending on how much stuff you have, anything less than $20 each is just a joke, IMO.

What if the moving company charged your company 10k and gives their movers 10% each?

They don't. I've been moved a few times and it shows up on my taxes. It was around $3-4k for the move.

Regardless, they guys did a great job in hot/humid weather. And it only cost me $100 for the move.

 

[amoeba]

Ok. I will clarify my position again.

Never did I tell people to not tip. Tip if you want to guarantee good service. Tip if you want to reward good service. I do it all the time.

Compman25 first posted that he only tips waiters because he believes them to make less than minimum wage without the tip. I replied saying this isn't true unless if their employer is breaking federal law, in which case the waiter should report his employer.

Then torpid comes in and says that waiter make at BEST minimum wage (which can not be true unless if employer was breaking federal law). He also states that minimum wage is not enough to live on.

Again, I am not debating whether minimum wage is enough to live on or not. If you don't believe minimum wage is enough to live on, then I suggest you tip all minimum wage workers. I honestly believe that that is a good reason to tip. But again, whether minimum wage is enough or not is not relevant to the clarification that I first provided.

 

[torpid]

Originally posted by: amoeba
Ok. I will clarify my position again.

Never did I tell people to not tip. Tip if you want to guarantee good service. Tip if you want to reward good service. I do it all the time.

Compman25 first posted that he only tips waiters because he believes them to make less than minimum wage without the tip. I replied saying this isn't true unless if their employer is breaking federal law, in which case the waiter should report his employer.

Then torpid comes in and says that waiter make at BEST minimum wage (which can not be true unless if employer was breaking federal law). He also states that minimum wage is not enough to live on.

Again, I am not debating whether minimum wage is enough to live on or not. If you don't believe minimum wage is enough to live on, then I suggest you tip all minimum wage workers. I honestly believe that that is a good reason to tip. But again, whether minimum wage is enough or not is not relevant to the clarification that I first provided.

The bolded text is false. He never said that, you didn't say what you claim to have said, and I didn't say what you claim I said. At least not as you stated above. You can read the quote chain if you like, although it doesn't seem to be helping.

Compman25 posted that you should tip if they are paid less than minimum wage. Waitresses are paid less than minimum wage. Their income is largely derived from tips and their employer pays them less than minimum wage. What he said was true. You then replied that what he wrote was "plainly not true" and later that "no waiter will make less than minimum wage". I then wrote "If their income is derived largely from tips, without which they would at best make minimum wage," which, contrary to what you wrote above, can be true without breaking federal law, because minimum wage is included in "at best minimum wage".

Your position is that a waitress won't be making less than minimum wage unless her employer is violating federal law. It has absolutely no bearing on the fact that people who are paid less than minimum wage by their employer should probably be tipped, because their primary income source is tips. And yes, they are paid less than minimum wage by their employer, and it's all legal and everything, because the customers pay them tips.

 

[amoeba]

I will say one more thing.

The reason there are so many tipping threads is because nothing is clear. Our current system is clearly flawed as customers have to make a multitude of value judgements.

1. they have to see what people around them are tipping so they don't look like cheapskates by undertipping nor do they want to look like ballers who overtip because hey, you do it once, its probably gonna be expected of you now.

2. They have to make a decision on whether the person doing work for them is being adequately compensated for their work.

I mean if you set a poll on this forum and listed the following jobs
waiter,barber, taxi, plumber, cableman, lawncare, bellboy, dry cleaners, bag boy, pizza man, guy who gives you the carryout, movers, guy who takes your luggage at the airport, etc...

and asked whether each should be tipped and how much, you will get a thousand different answers.

Is this complexity really what you want?

(btw, please nobody make this poll)

 

[BKLounger]

i used to work for a moving company on the weekends when i was in college. We got paid ok nothing that would make you want to make a living out of it. I want to say we got tips only 40% of the time. We never expected a tip but it was nice when we got one plus we'd be a bit more lenient with weird moving requests (like if we got a tip we would gladly move the couple hundred pound filing cabinet up a couple flights instead of making you remove the drawers first). Plus even though you pay $450 to the moving company those guys are probably only making $8 an hour (if that). The owner pockets the rest of those bucks.

btw when we did see a tip it was typically $5 per guy (this was about 10 years ago)

 

[Gooberlx2]

Yes, I tip the movers. These people are handling most or all of your earthly possessions. It is customary to tip them something for good service and hard work.

In the last couple of instances that I used a major company to move me across the country twice in two years), I've tipped around $20 per person, plus offered refreshments during the load/unload process. But when you're spending $2500 on moving, $40-$60 + drinks really isn't a big deal.

In your case, I'd tip them enough so they could go out and buy a lunch for themselves.

 

[sjetexas]

I'd tip them if they A) do a good job and/or B) they're just manually laborers making an hourly wage...not some outfit where the owner is doing the work and directly benefiting from the upfront price

 

[amoeba]

[

Your position is that a waitress won't be making less than minimum wage unless her employer is violating federal law. It has absolutely no bearing on the fact that people who are paid less than minimum wage by their employer should probably be tipped, because their primary income source is tips. And yes, they are paid less than minimum wage by their employer, and it's all legal and everything, because the customers pay them tips.

Its all legal and everything because their total compensation is equal or higher than minimum wage. Their total compensation is at least minimum wage, not at best, at least. compman25 stated quote "Are they paid less than minimum wage like waiters? No? Then no tip." Did he say paid by their employers? no.

Without their tips, waiters make at least minimum wage, not at best, unless if employers are breaking federal law. Some employers do pay more than $6 an hour even if waiters are making the majority of their income from tips. Do I not tip these people because they are paid more than minimum wage? do I have to ask every waiter I come across whether they are paid $5.85 or paid $2.13? What if I'm waited on by the owner of the establishment?

Should CEOs who take no salary be also tipped because his employer does not pay him the federal minimum wage even though his total compensation is much higher?

Once again, I am not opposed to tipping to insure great service, whatever. I do think the current tipping system is unwieldy and confusing.

 

[JS80]

lol you guys make it seem like waiters are making poverty wages. Most waiters make good money. CA waiters average $25/hour. Pretty damn good for unskilled labor.

 

[torpid]

Originally posted by: amoeba
Its all legal and everything because their total compensation is equal or higher than minimum wage. Their total compensation is at least minimum wage, not at best, at least.

And without tips they would be making minimum wage (or less if their employer is violating the law). Thus the part where I said without tips...

compman25 stated quote "Are they paid less than minimum wage like waiters? No? Then no tip." Did he say paid by their employers? no.

It's the implied meaning and seemingly well understood by everyone but you.

Without their tips, waiters make at least minimum wage, not at best, unless if employers are breaking federal law.

Without their tips = excluding the income from tips. This is really not that hard. They make less than minimum wage if you exclude tips, not if they get no tips, which is a different scenario. Thus you should tip, according to compman. Are you really struggling this much with these concepts?

Some employers do pay more than $6 an hour even if waiters are making the majority of their income from tips. Do I not tip these people because they are paid more than minimum wage? do I have to ask every waiter I come across whether they are paid $5.85 or paid $2.13? What if I'm waited on by the owner of the establishment?

Should CEOs who take no salary be also tipped because his employer does not pay him the federal minimum wage even though his total compensation is much higher?

Once again, I am not opposed to tipping to insure great service, whatever. I do think the current tipping system is unwieldy and confusing.

Finally you address the actual topic instead of hacking away at windmills. I don't find the tipping system unwieldy and confusing. I tip people whom I think deserve it. It's pretty simple, really.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: amoeba
Ok. I will clarify my position again.

Never did I tell people to not tip. Tip if you want to guarantee good service. Tip if you want to reward good service. I do it all the time.

Compman25 first posted that he only tips waiters because he believes them to make less than minimum wage without the tip. I replied saying this isn't true unless if their employer is breaking federal law, in which case the waiter should report his employer.

Then torpid comes in and says that waiter make at BEST minimum wage (which can not be true unless if employer was breaking federal law). He also states that minimum wage is not enough to live on.

Again, I am not debating whether minimum wage is enough to live on or not. If you don't believe minimum wage is enough to live on, then I suggest you tip all minimum wage workers. I honestly believe that that is a good reason to tip. But again, whether minimum wage is enough or not is not relevant to the clarification that I first provided.

how does you tip after the fact grant you good service?

WTF would I tip minimum wage workers living at home?

I don't think you understand the debate.

There are service jobs and wage jobs. I tip my bellhop, but not the check in chick.