Do I have ANY chance of getting a (real) IT job?

[MarkRatcliff]

Hi everyone,

I would really appreciate any advice or commentary on my situation.

Basically, I am 25 years old working at Target and I feel like I just wasted two years of my life.

In December 2014, I graduated with an Associate of Applied Science (AAS) degree in Information Technology Security from a community college close to where I live with an ok GPA (3.42). (Yes, almost a year ago) Ever since then, I've been trying to get an IT job. I've had a total of two interviews since then. One of them was months ago, and the other one was last week for a help desk job at an oil company.

I feel like the one last week was just a complete death blow to me, mostly due to what happened today. I feel like I just got knifed in the stomach.

I interviewed last week, and I called back today to speak with the guy who interviewed me. He was brutal. I told him I was just calling to check to see if they had decided who to hire and he told me "certainly not you". I politely explained to him that I have been trying to get an IT job for over a year now and was fine if I didn't get the job, but would really appreciate any feedback on why that was so that I could improve in the future. He told me that "HR" required that he interview me, but that I had "no chance" from the moment I walked in the door because I "have no experience to speak of". I told him that I know that, but that I completed an AAS degree and am looking for my first IT job. He literally laughed and said "Your degree qualifies you to MAYBE work at Geek Squad. I would recommend you give them a try. That's all the advice I can give you. Have a nice day"

I just feel like I should give up at this point. Maybe I should? I think my degree prepared me for IT work. It was hard, and it took me two years. I did lots of hands on lab work to get it.

So I guess my questions are 1. Should I give up at this point? 2. How am I supposed to get jobs if they all require experience and I have none? I thought that was what my degree was for? and 3. Is my degree actually worthless?

I would appreciate any advice. I am going to post a list of the classes I had to take to get my degree if that will help on whether or not I should even be bringing it up anymore?

ITSC 1305 Introduction to PC Operating Systems
ITSC 1309 Integrated Software Applications I
ITNW 1325 Fundamentals of Networking Technologies
ITSY 1342 Information Technology Security
ENGL 1301 Composition I
ITSC 1307 UNIX Operating System I
ITSE 1329 Programming Logic and Design
ITSE 1331 Introduction to Visual Basic Programming
ITSW 1307 Introduction to Database
ITSY 2300 Operating System Security
MATH 1333 Contemporary Mathematics for Technical Programs
ITNW 1354 Implementing and Supporting Servers
ITSY 2301 Firewalls and Network Security
ITSY 2341 Security Management Practices
SPCH 1318 Interper. Comm.
ITSY 2342 Incident Response and Handling
ITSY 2343 Computer System Forensics
ITSY 2345 Network Defense and Countermeasures
ENGL 2311 Technical and Business Writing or ENGL1302 Composition II
CPMT 1425 Computer Systems Maintenance

Also, I have a CompTIA A+, Network+, Security+, and Microsoft MCDST/MCP/MTA certifications.

 

[Possessed Freak]

Sure, why not...

Your degree: It is a broad scope of topics that appear to be entry level classes. I don't see many follow up classes to get depth in learning. It looks like a jack of all trades list, and sadly, anyone who has specialization probably also has the introduction level down on these topics.

The certs... yeah, I am not a fan of certs. If you had some Cisco ones it is a plus.

Regarding the job search, why give up? Keep sending out the resume, your school should have somebody there that can help you with it (even though you graduated). It looks bad on them if you can not get a job after finishing their program.

ANYTHING related to your field as a job is a plus compared to unrelated filler jobs.

 

[AznAnarchy99]

What a douche that guy was.

 

[Possessed Freak]

What a douche that guy was.

Meh, feedback is feedback. The guy could have told him nothing.

 

[edro]

Wow, what an asshole.
Your degree isn't worthless, especially with your certs.

You just need to keep applying and social networking (asking friends/family).

I know many IT guys without degrees at all and who started with no corporate experience.

You might need to start out at the ground level (desktop support) and work you way up in the org.

A bachelors degree would help immensely.

 

[Andy T]

What do you mean by "IT"? Programming? Installing machines and doing desktop support?
I would suggest you also try out for internships.
If it's programming you are considering, I would say at least a 4 year degree is good. However, I still have students from decent schools with "formal" degrees have no clue about fundamental programming questions.
The reality is that getting the first job is more about getting a lucky break, and then snowballing from there into a career.

 

[Ns1]

So...have you applied for Geek Squad yet?

 

[MarkRatcliff]

So...have you applied for Geek Squad yet?

No, because I don't feel that it is a real IT job. From what I understand, Geek Squad (at least the way it is now) is basically just a high pressure sales job. Most of the "IT" work consists of putting in a pre-provided DVD that runs scripts to automate basic tasks (i.e. format and clean install Windows). The job doesn't even require a high school education, and, from what I hear from a friend who works there, only requires sales skills. I already work retail, so I don't know why I would spend 2 years in college only to go work retail at another store.

I would be happy with any actual IT job. Help desk, setting up SOHO networks, anything... just not more retail sales.

 

[angminas]

If you give up because of what assholes say, the assholes win, and you become their slave.

 

[lxskllr]

Keep trying. The low end seems pretty saturated, so it may take awhile. Everybody wants professionals, at mop pusher wages.

 

[iamwiz82]

As a hiring manager in IT, I will tell you that experience means worlds more than degrees or certificates. I would highly suggest you go after a first level help desk position to get some real world experience.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

Do everyone a favor and tell us who the jerk works for. He's hardly the first unprofessional jackass to work for corporate America but, accepting that type of behavior does everyone a disservice. Instead of the shotgun approach to job hunting, target a particular type of job and continue to educate yourself in relevant fields. Did you make any use of the community college's job services?

 

[videogames101]

I would highly recommend applying for a Genius position at an Apple Store. The pay actually isn't bad and with good benefits too, a few of my friends had an easy time finding a corporate IT position after a year or two fixing apple shit. It's very hands on, would be good experience imo. One of those guys even got an offer into Apple Corporate (with no degree at all), follow the money!

Key to getting the job is knowing about every apple product, study up.

 

[mrjminer]

I've had a guy turn me down like that before. Probably because I called him to see what qualifications they were looking for since their posting was somewhat vague (0-3 years experience in something that was advanced). I also was unqualified for the job, so I deserved it. I learned then that without real experience at what a company is looking for, you will be able to move to a slightly higher position somewhere else.

If you have no experience, I would expect to start at as a level 1 helpdesk or something similar, but your certs you could probably move up to something else more quickly.

 

[arcenite]

Free/paid internships, summer/seasonal hire, volunteer, but most importantly -- don't give up. Ever.

Also -- there's a lot more to IT than fixing computers. Geeksquad type work is just one small aspect -- but it'll help you get into helpdesks -- which is your foot in the door. System Integration, Architecture, Proj....ect Man..age..ment.... *keels over*. Edit: However you should be able to get a helpdesk job with your degree alone.

Also, bachelor degree. Find a company that will help you pay for it. Certs? Maybe if you work for an IT company OR if you want to get into networking or security. I've done well for myself with the Bachelor Degree + Internship route. That's just one recipe, though.

Edit: Also, that time you spent interviewing is NOT wasted. Practicing your interview skills is extremely important. Apply for jobs with that idea alone and a. interviews will be much less stressful and b. you miss 100% of the shots you don't take.

Edit 300: You dodged a bullet, too. Could you imagine working for that guy?

Edit 400: ALMOST forgot. If you're willing to relocate, your opportunities increase wildly.

 

[BlitzPuppet]

I honestly was in your shoes around your age, albeit a couple years younger.

I went to a University and studied for an IT Degree, but couldn't drive through all the "junk" courses since I couldn't get over the fact that I was already done with all my Majoring classes, and left with utter BS busywork. I dropped out.

I was working at Target, like you, and absolutely hated it. I looked high and low for an IT job other than the side jobs I was doing, and landed a job at Geek Squad phone support. I sadly was one of the most knowledgeable people there (everyone else was quick to call any issue a virus) and I became the "Technical Consultant" on site. I was there for about 2 months before I got an offer to be a tier 1 tech at a Managed Service Provider.

While the pay wasn't good, the people were. It paid for my certs, gave me a crap ton of experience, promotions, and confidence. After a handful of years my resume was picked up by a company in town, and they made an offer.

Keep your head up and focus on getting relevant work experience. You'll eventually find your place and have the confidence to move onto greater things.

 

[ultimatebob]

Yeah, you're going to have to "pay your dues" and get a help desk type job for a few years.

You can't even get an entry level sys admin job without a four year degree and a year of workplace experience doing something technology (PC repair, IT, QA testing, help desk) related.

Until then, have fun resetting passwords and reminding them to reboot your computer.

 

[Sonikku]

Tips for getting entry level job:

1.Get 4 years experience in said job.
2.???????
3. Apply for said entry level job.

Volunteer the labor if you must. Utilities/rent guy might get pissed you're getting paid in "experience", but fuck em.

 

[Lyfer]

Beggars can't be choosers. You sound like my buddy who went through a 4-6 year period of being a full time son with his bachelors in IS. He didn't want to do help desk or anything not management related.

He finally went back to school to get a masters in accounting and now is doing well but with 4-6 years wasted.

Go to school and get a 4 year degree and volunteer. Success comes with hard work.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

Being goal oriented is important however, viewing life experience in anything but directly applicable experience as "wasted" is a huge mistake.

 

[Red Squirrel]

It's harder to get into now days but there are some IT jobs every now and then that pop up. They don't pay much though. The good ones get outsourced. Also depends where you live, some places are better than others.

 

[Kaido]

Default Do I have ANY chance of getting a (real) IT job?

1. Technically, you are more qualified than I am, and I've been in IT for a decade!

2. Don't worry about your age or "missing out". You're 25 & you'll be working until you're 70. Think about that. You'll be working for the next 40+ years. There is no rush! It's OK to start at crap IT jobs & get experience. Working in retail certainly motivated me to do better with my professional life.

3. If Target is paying the bills, then go scout out any IT job that isn't Geek Squad (since you don't like them) that pays at least what Target pays. Find a local PC repair shop (you'll be a slave, but you'll build experience), or ask your school about paid internships, or submit your resume to some large local businesses for an entry-level IT gopher, basically anything to build up your hands-on skills. I'm the local IT guy for a branch of companies, plus I do IT on the side. Servers, phones, networks, desktops, support, machine tools, you name it. None of it is really overly hard, but there's a lot to take in when you're first jumping in. I didn't even know how to RDP into a server when I got into corporate work. Granted, I still have no idea what I'm doing, but I fake it pretty well

4. The dude you talked to is a royal jerk. But, he is valuable for a couple reasons. For starters, you're going to encounter jerks every day of your working life, so learning to develop a thick skin is important. Second, you don't have to work for jerks. I've had extremely good bosses for the last several years & it makes a world of difference for me, but I had to go through a string of jerks before I realized that I had options about where to work & the only obstacle was me feeling scared & not doing anything to change companies. Third, he's an idiot because motivated newbies are a goldmine: they are cheap & trainable, which is especially good if you already have experienced people on staff who can help you. So keep in mind - that guy doesn't rule the world, he's just one speedbump on the road to success. But again, he's important to keep you humble...there are jerks out there, there are good bosses out there, there are companies willing to train you and take you in for cheap so you can grow. Right now what you want to do is build experience, so again, if Target is paying the bills, find some place that will price-match them. With your background, you should be making fifteen or twenty bucks an hour in no time.

5. Your degree is not worthless. In terms of experience it is, but college degrees are the golden ticket to getting into interviews, because managers want to hire educated people so they don't look bad if they get criticized for their hiring abilities, so people with a degree typically get moved higher up the list right off the bat. Plus, it shows you can stick with stuff & finish projects. Even if you barely passed, you still stuck with it & got the job done, which is what most companies are looking for.

Basically, it's not hopeless. If you stick with it, you should be making bank compared to Target within just a few years, if not sooner. Get out of Target, get into an entry-level IT job, build up your experience, and five years from now when you're doing awesome, you'll wonder why you ever worried

 

[Mai72]

He said those things to you?

You should have tape recorded the conversation then sued the company to the ground. Sorry, but those remarks don't fly in this day and age.

 

[AdamK47]

I did call center / help desk for two years after college. It didn't pay much. It was a start that did eventually pay off in the end. Like others have said, experience is the key.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

Degree not worthless, but field is over-saturated with people who have 4-year degrees. In the short term, it's not a real liability though. If you ever want to be Grand High Server Admin for GlobalMegaCorp, be prepared to go get the piece of paper though.

But I would suggest taking a class or two at the CC again to expand your skills, show a commitment to self-improvement and skill acquisition, etc. Leanr Python or PHP. Your choice. Just learn one. Also, network the FUCK out of those classes. Learn everybody's name. Complete all your homework a week early and ask for instructor feedback. Call up your old classmates too, meet 'em for beers and talk about job hunting.

The guy at the oil company was a jerk, but fact is, he probably had a guy who was already going to get that job. And it was probably somebody he already knew or who was referred to the position. Next time, be that guy.

Apply for internships.

Now, to be a bit mean - the certs you have are Geek Squad level certs. Or more specifically, they're Desktop Support level certs. (So, as far as the typical Linux Sysadmin is concerned, the lowest form of IT life - but well fuck, you gotta start somewhere. I did that for six years.)

Fortunately, there are a lot of people employed in those types of jobs, and the pay's enough to keep you in beer and XBox games.

However, I wouldn't turn up my nose at Geek Squad. If nothing else, it's an opportunity for a technical person (you) to learn how to approach technical topics with non-technical people, and it's technically an IT job. See if Target is hiring internal tech support people, too, maybe.

I'd also check out local public schools. That's how I got started - there was a technical interview, and I had to demonstrate practical skills, but they were a lot less concerned with my credentials and a lot more concerned with my soft skills. Most of my coworkers at that job were perfectly pleasant, soft-spoken folks who were good around kids and didn't have degrees at all. (And we all had clean criminal records. The end.)