Do I have ANY chance of getting a (real) IT job?

[unokitty]

Hi everyone,

I would really appreciate any advice or commentary on my situation.

Basically, I am 25 years old working at Target and I feel like I just wasted two years of my life.

In December 2014, I graduated with an Associate of Applied Science (AAS) degree in Information Technology Security from a community college close to where I live ...

Suggest that you go back to your Community College and talk with your former instructors.

Find out what security jobs that they have had.

Find out if they will refer you to a company that is hiring.

Find out if they will take you to a local chapter of a professional organization meeting and introduce you around. Organization such as ISSA, ISCA, InfraGard, or similar...

Find out where other graduates from your program are working...

Best of luck,
Uno

 

[Oyeve]

Degrees meant nothing back in 1985 when I got into IT. Primarily because there really was no IT. I started as a mailroom clerk in a private investment company. One of the partners bought a bunch of PCs from the brand new company called "Dell". I was already messing with computers since the late 70s as a kid. Atari 400, and such. Took to the new dell systems with gusto. Within a year I was the "IT" dept. Left that job to work in a real IT environment at Morgan Stanley's IT dept. I am now an IT Director and make decent $$$ without ever taking any formal classes other than random MS certs. I didnt even finish college. I pretty much have lied to every major employer I have had, including the current one. In short, lie your way through getting into IT.

BTW, this approach doesnt work anymore as everyones life since 1995 is easily traced. Fortunately, in the mid 80s, we are untraceable!

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Meh, feedback is feedback. The guy could have told him nothing.

No, the guy was an asshole. EVERYONE has to start somewhere and the guy could've given the OP the same message but with far more tact and encouragement instead of being an egotistical douche. That douche could be laid off tomorrow and be jobless for months - how would he feel if he didn't get a job and someone was rude to him about why he didn't get it?

 

[ViviTheMage]

We actually had a semi difficult time finding someone for our Tier II spot where I work now, and we weren't asking too much of them either. I am glad I skipped typical help desk and went right into that though after getting my associates. I worked for a few years, took a bunch of stuff on and am now Network Admin, and sometimes Systems Admin if they need help with something that isn't cookie cutter.

I was also going to school part time, got my Bachelors done, company reimbursed for a % as well which was nice. So the degree is not worthless, but be forewarned, a bachelors is the new high school diploma in IT. IF you have no experience.

I find it REALLY difficult to get technical people who actually know how to troubleshoot. Yes Google helps, but it seems like everyone lacks the ability to dig beyond a pasted error.

 

[JamesV]

Try to find a technical placement service.

I never even finished my associates, found a technical placement service here, called them and was working in QA in under two weeks, which later turned into a programming job (even without a degree).

These are entry level jobs of course, but I told the placement guy how I had been building PC's since the 286 days and how I always loved working with computers, and he told me to tell that to the interviewer.

This is the place I used, but it was 20 years ago http://www.vectortechnicalinc.com/

 

[ViviTheMage]

Try to find a technical placement service.

I never even finished my associates, found a technical placement service here, called them and was working in QA in under two weeks, which later turned into a programming job (even without a degree).

These are entry level jobs of course, but I told the placement guy how I had been building PC's since the 286 days and how I always loved working with computers, and he told me to tell that to the interviewer.

This is the place I used, but it was 20 years ago http://www.vectortechnicalinc.com/

20 years ago? Things have changed man! Just because you like working/building PC's doesn't land you a gig anymore. It certainly helps though. If OP is good enough, he could use that experience to land a job. Need to buff those interview skills out.

 

[Strk]

Meh, feedback is feedback. The guy could have told him nothing.

He really didn't give him feedback though. He was just a dick.

I'd say what iamwiz82 wrote would be actual feedback:

As a hiring manager in IT, I will tell you that experience means worlds more than degrees or certificates. I would highly suggest you go after a first level help desk position to get some real world experience.

It may not be what he wants to hear, but this is still actual feedback instead of the nonsense the other guy said.

 

[ViviTheMage]

Yeah, you're going to have to do some legwork.

Look at craiglist, docotors offices, hospitals, banks, government, local data centers, mom and pop shops, and even places you may not think. I like to interview, so I apply to jobs around the US with companies I would personally love to work for, and see if I land something.

 

[MarkRatcliff]

Thank you guys for the advice!

I think I am going to go ahead and give Geek Squad a try. I figure it can't hurt. I spoke to my friend who works at Geek Squad, and he said he will put in a good word for me if I apply. (Though, he has been involved in some recent shenanigans involving calling in and being late, so he says it may or may not help me) He actually recommended that I leave my AAS degree completely off my application and don't even mention it because the manager there thinks anyone with a degree is "overqualified" and that no one there has a degree of any kind. He recommended I just leave my certifications on and that should be good enough. I just find this hilarious. My AAS degree doesn't qualify me for an IT job, and now it is possibly actually hurting me.

I looked at the degree plans for the state university here. There is literally *only* one computer science degree and then a few engineering degrees. Everything else is English, sociology, political science, business, biology, chemistry, etc.

Looking at the computer science and engineering degree plans, I am already 100% sure I wouldn't make it through them. The math requirements are crazy. It's almost like you are getting a mathematics degree.

I figure I'm going to go ahead and try to get a bachelor's degree anyway as a part time project, just so I can check that box off on job applications. I'm probably going to go with political science, as I feel pretty confident I can complete that degree plan. Still, my end goal is to have a professional IT career of some kind. I don't know where, when, or how that will happen. I'm guessing a bachelor's degree in political science along with my AAS degree will show that I am diversified educationally when I apply for IT jobs in the future? (Is that even a chance of how HR will see it? lol I mean it can't hurt, right?)

I guess I would probably come in at interviews in the future and say "Well, I have a political science degree, so you know I can read and write well. You know I understand how government and organizations work. But I also have an IT education, so you probably don't get a lot of people with both backgrounds here" Meh, it could work, I guess?

Edit: I also see that they have minors in business. Maybe I will also try to get a business minor so I can say "Also, I have some business education". I mean, I guess it would look like I have education in various fields then?

 

[ultimatebob]

Geek Squad is bottom of the barrel when it comes to IT work. Isn't there an Apple Store or even an mom and pop computer store in your area? Where DO you live, anyway? Someone here in that area might have a job opening.

Oh, and the degree in Political Science is a lousy idea. If I ever got a resume like that, I'd assume that:

1) You're not really all that interested in technology, and/or
2) You're just taking this job as something to tide you over until you get elected for something.

If you got the degree in business, that helps. If you got it Computer Science, Mathematics or Engineering, even better. Engineers with programming experience are hot right now, since almost every device seems to have embedded computers in it.

 

[DigDog]

keep studying

 

[Riverhound777]

I suggest you start networking more. Try meetup.com. There might be some local IT meetups, or if not some regular meetups that sound fun. Meet people, get to know them, you might find someone who works for a company who is hiring. Knowing someone at a company is almost as good if not better than experience.

Another option is temp agency. When I was looking for a job I did some temp work with Citrix, and they would have hired me after if I hadn't gotten another temp job that turned full time with an investment firm. From there I met an IT consultant who did large project work for that firm and when they laid me off he hired me.

<-- IT Consultant with 12 years experience.

 

[msw1382]

Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one.

My opinion is, do not waste your money on a political science degree. Get your experience and as a "side project" start studying for certifications. I don't know your end goal but some good certs for starting out are ITIL Foundations and some HDI certs. I couldn't care less when I see A+ or Net+ on a resume, they mean absolutely nothing to me in the real world.

As RiverHound above stated, Networking is good as well. Get out there and meet people in your field. Hell, if you like reach out to me and we can discuss your goals in more detail. I enjoy helping where I can.

 

[child of wonder]

That guy was a total douche nozzle.

OP, I was in a similar situation years ago. I was pursuing an AAS degree in Systems and Network Admin and feared all I could do with it was help desk or Geek Squad. Most of my fellow students were convinced of the same thing and were making plans to pursue a 4 year degree as soon as they received their Associate's. Being a new father, I didn't have that luxury.

While I was going to school I happened to find a small local business that needed IT help. They had a single Linux server running their website and email and a slew of desktops and laptops. While I went to school I did about 10-20 hours of work for them per month and got a lot of experience fixing their issues.

When I graduated with my AAS degree, I applied for full time jobs and landed a Linux Systems Admin job right out of school since I had already been managing Linux for that small business for the last 16 months.

After that I decided to specialize in virtualization, eventually moved into the VAR space, and now I'm a sales engineer for a storage company.

Do whatever you can to find relevant experience, even if that means doing part time IT work for small businesses on a 1099 basis. Every little bit helps. Find something that interests you and focus on it -- virtualization, networking, storage, security, etc. Do everything you can to learn and grow in your specialization, get some certifications (CompTIA certs don't count), and you'll be fine. As important, meet and talk to other people in the IT industry in your area. Networking is HUGE in IT and the more you can grow your professional network, the better.

I got my AAS degree less than 10 years ago and today I'm more successful than I ever would have dreamed possible. You can do it. Don't listen to those who say you can't.

 

[Harrod]

I wouldn't write off pursing a 4 year degree due to being bad at math, I don't want to sound like a total retard, but I took Discrete math 3 times before I passed it with a C. I don't think I learned how to really study until my senior year in college.

I would be careful what degree you end up going for, if you do get one, get something that makes you more general, and gives you more knowledge in something like business. These degrees are cheap to obtain and will give you a better return of investment on what you spend in college. Everyone I know with a political science degree works as a teller at a bank now. There is also a kindof hot chick at the place that I work at that has one, but the only reason she has a job is because she is hot, she's probably one of the dumbest people I work with.

When I was in college, I was going for aviation, then 9/11 happened and I figured it would be awhile before that industry recovered. I chose to go with a business computer science degree. What I ended up with was a decent paying job, with 5k in student loans. Ironically I work with a guy who did go though the whole aviation degree, we both make about the same now, but he is saddled with an extra 50k in debt from all of his flight time.

I am curious, where do you live at? There are probably people on this board that could help you find something.

 

[Viper GTS]

When you say you're 'Trying to get an IT job' what level of jobs are you applying for? Have an example job posting?

Find something entry level - Maybe not Geek Squad but probably similar pay ranges. Given what you (should) know from your classes you should easily excel at this level of job. Don't be complacent, and put yourself in positions where you can learn. If you stop learning, move on.

If you're aiming too high in your position search you aren't going to have any luck. Your degree work is going to give you a big advantage in getting there, but it doesn't qualify you for a whole lot in itself.

The big thing you need to do is get out of Target. Even if it doesn't pay you any more, put your low end job time in something relevant to what you want to do. Go work a help desk position instead.

Viper GTS

 

[Ketchup]

Years ago a very good fried of my started out, after receiving an associate's degree, with temp jobs, one after another. A (good) local hiring company will probably have no problem getting you these. If you are at a place in your life where you can get these, then it wouldn't be a bad idea to go that route. You will get experience, and connections, which will lead to the full time job you are looking for.

 

[rsutoratosu]

Where are you located, i'm looking for someone like you but i'm in Westport CT.

You're on this forum, meaning you know enough and can be trained.

BTW I have a political science and econ degree.. Both were like 49 credits in my school, so it was nothing to get those degrees.

 

[Art&Science]

I'll be frank, IT is a trade not a profession. Yes, you can get a degree and get a job - but the most successful IT people I have known were self starters. The degree looks good on the resume - that's about it. I've been in IT and later computer engineering since 1996.

By that I mean, if you are applying for a job as an Exchange administrator and haven't done it before - you need to start doing it, on your own, at home. GET the software, setup AD, setup Exchange and start using it. Then, when you go for that Interview, "Yes, I have Exchange experience - I have setup and run an Exchange environment." Classroom isn't enough for IT, it just isn't.

This is just one example.

Forget applying for Help Desk - it's not worth it. Go straight for an admin job. Small companies are best to start. You need to look for SPECIFIC jobs for a SPECIFIC product, like Exchange, or Cisco firewalls, or Apache - and then LEARN that product. Learning can be LOW COST and MOSTLY FREE - not going to go into more than that - the Internet is a great resource. USE IT. Invest in some CHEAP PCs so you can have a little lab at home.

Good luck.

 

[Art&Science]

He said those things to you?

You should have tape recorded the conversation then sued the company to the ground. Sorry, but those remarks don't fly in this day and age.

Oh shut up and cry you pussy. Those remarks are the real world, plain and simple. OP is lucky to have someone speak to him with such candor - it lets him learn how the world works.

Record him and sue him, haha - go fuck yourself, LOL.

 

[Viper GTS]

Forget applying for Help Desk - it's not worth it. Go straight for an admin job. Small companies are best to start. You need to look for SPECIFIC jobs for a SPECIFIC product, like Exchange, or Cisco firewalls, or Apache - and then LEARN that product. Learning can be LOW COST and MOSTLY FREE - not going to go into more than that - the Internet is a great resource. USE IT. Invest in some CHEAP PCs so you can have a little lab at home.

Have to disagree there, going straight for an admin job is probably a waste of time. Why are they going to hire him when there are plenty of people with experience? Unless you just happen to find the right company that doesn't know enough to look for experience its unlikely to work out.

Also the days of a bunch of cheap PCs being a useful lab are kind of over. Build one decent machine and virtualize it all. Even for networking stuff I'd much rather have a single box with lots of RAM and a couple quad port NICs. Not saying you'd necessarily do this in production but the replicated hardware costs and unnecessary power/space use makes physical boxes difficult to justify for home lab use.

Viper GTS

 

[IEC]

My four year degree was just a part of the hiring checklist at the company I got a job with. It is what it is - some positions want a four year degree to prove you can stick with something that long and finish it. It also gives HR more cover for a bad hiring decision, IMO.

My four years of working Tier 1 and Tier 2 IT support and the troubleshooting I did while obtaining said degree were what got me the job - not the degree itself. Though the name of the university on said degree certainly didn't hurt.

There is some good advice and some bad advice in this thread. The unfortunate reality is that in IT you must grow a thick skin and learn to not let insults or rants get at you.

My piece of advice would be to always be polite, always be professional even when a person is a raging asshole to you. It tends to de-escalate situations and differentiates you from the average IT guy. And might open certain doors for you in the future...

 

[Nashemon]

Others have said it, but I wanted to reply because you are in the exact position I was in when I was your age. I had an associates from a community college in Computer Information Systems and worked at Home Depot and Target. But I soon found I wasn't getting many callbacks for IT jobs, or not landing the few jobs I did get interviewed for. Only work I had was some part time work that some networking with people got me.

So I decided (with a "friendly" push from my girlfriend at the time) to go get a bachelors in CIS (which by the way, almost no math involved, since it's not a math degree like CS practically is). I also applied to Best Buy at that time, and they hired me for Geek Squad (still there part-time, because it actually pays pretty decent for a part-time job after 6 years). The only downside is racking up nearly 40k in student loans, but I got a job with a locally owned, but national IT company, that placed me with a client of theirs doing tier 2 support. Not making a ton of money here, but learning lot of how a international corporation's computer systems and network infrastructure works. Hoping that translates to something in the future.

If I could do it all again, I would have gotten a job that paid for school so I wouldn't be in debt for the next 10 years. Best Buy will do that, but you have to be full time, which contradicts with the whole going to school part. Be prepared for no social life.

In the end, everyone's story how they got into IT is going to be different, except for a key similarity: They all had to start somewhere. Plenty of help in this topic and elsewhere for that. Don't give up. Keep applying. I get calls at least once a month from places I applied to in the past, but maybe just didn't have an opening for me at the time, but now they do.

 

[Ns1]

Have to disagree there, going straight for an admin job is probably a waste of time. Why are they going to hire him when there are plenty of people with experience? Unless you just happen to find the right company that doesn't know enough to look for experience its unlikely to work out.

When you can't beat them on experience, you have to beat them on price.

 

[Art&Science]

Have to disagree there, going straight for an admin job is probably a waste of time. Why are they going to hire him when there are plenty of people with experience? Unless you just happen to find the right company that doesn't know enough to look for experience its unlikely to work out.

Also the days of a bunch of cheap PCs being a useful lab are kind of over. Build one decent machine and virtualize it all. Even for networking stuff I'd much rather have a single box with lots of RAM and a couple quad port NICs. Not saying you'd necessarily do this in production but the replicated hardware costs and unnecessary power/space use makes physical boxes difficult to justify for home lab use.

Viper GTS

Having experience with products on physical hardware is important.

You can buy a Windows PC on Amazon for dirt dirt dirt cheap.

As far as power, that's a joke and half. It's not 1999 anymore and people aren't running PII space heaters. Most PCs these days run on less than 90w for the whole damn thing (not including enthusiast computers).

As for why they hire him? Because he knows the product plain and simple. And yeah, as was said elsewhere he's going to get low-balled and take it. No one gives a shit about help desk on a resume. I hired 36 people last year. Once he gets that "administrator" title on the resume he can move on in a year or so to a better paying gig.