Disappointed with bmw 328xi

[sjwaste]

I didn't have much trouble discerning the OP's point, that the 328xi is a poor value if you're after a certain performance level or feel. For others its a perfectly fine car, but I'm in the OP's camp. I'd rather pocket the difference between another car that suits my tastes and the 328 or go for the 335, but that's just the kind of car I like. To me, the 328 seems like a lot to spend on a series of compromises, but your priorities may differ from mine, and that's absolutely fine.

I mean, I'm trying to decide on a used 07 335 vs a new corolla, so it's not like I'm making perfect sense all the time either 🙂

 

[rh71]

When I went to the Lexus test drive event, they had a 3-series to pit the IS350 against. It was so barebone that I was basically swearing off all BMWs at the time. Also when I test drove an X5 without sport package & NAV, it was completely underwhelming. 18s instead of 19s (exterior), seats are much different, handling obviously, idrive screen much smaller because of no NAV, no moonroof that gives the interior its space. Just a very empty-feeling interior. I stopped considering it for a month until others pointed me in the right direction.

Needless to say it really depends on how much you load them with.

 

[exdeath]

Originally posted by: BarneyFife

Originally posted by: Dman877
I love people who claim they can drive in 10 inches of snow "no problem". I don't care who you are or how good you are, you're not driving a rwd bmw in 10 inches of snow with "no problem." Most wussified suv's sold these days can't handle 10 inches of snow as they only have 8 inches of ground clearance and can't put enough pressure on the road to do anything useful.

A lot of people live on hills or they have a steep driveway. For those people, awd is necessary in places where they get 100+ inches a year. It doesn't matter how uber your snow tires are either. On an unplowed road, in a rwd vehicle on a 15 degree incline, you'll be going no where.

Exactly. Anyone that says they drive a rwd in 3" snow let alone 10" with ease is full of shit.

Why does it matter if its rwd or not, driving in ice or snow is never fun in any vehicle.

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: rh71
When I went to the Lexus test drive event, they had a 3-series to pit the IS350 against. It was so barebone that I was basically swearing off all BMWs at the time. Also when I test drove an X5 without sport package & NAV, it was completely underwhelming. 18s instead of 19s (exterior), seats are much different, handling obviously, idrive screen much smaller because of no NAV, no moonroof that gives the interior its space. Just a very empty-feeling interior. I stopped considering it for a month until others pointed me in the right direction.

Needless to say it really depends on how much you load them with.

IS350 is epic fail compared to a good 3 series, but there's a price difference to consider as well.

 

[exdeath]

Originally posted by: sjwaste
I didn't have much trouble discerning the OP's point, that the BMW/Mercedes/Lexus is a poor value because you are simply paying for the status

Fixed 😉

I have a 06 Toyota Avalon, and it's pissed off a lot of Lexus owners, due to the fact that it is/was a more powerful and more luxurious car than almost any Lexus model (almost 300 HP, could run over a person and not even know, and the interior feels like a mini van with only 1 row of seats) and at far less cost because it didn't have a gold plated (L) on the trunk. And the reason it pissed them off, was because they refused to just get the superior Toyota, and wished Lexus had something equal to or better...

I know we aren't talking about Lexus, but it's the same idea. Luxury cars are having to ride on past hype and name brand image these days to compete with regular cars that have caught up to them. BMWs used to be more expensive because they were (and still are in specific cases) better cars. Now the average BMW is still expensive because, well, its a BMW, and people buy it only for that reason.

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: exdeath

Originally posted by: sjwaste
I didn't have much trouble discerning the OP's point, that the BMW/Mercedes/Lexus is a poor value because you are simply paying for the status

Fixed 😉

^^^ In your opinion.

They all have their 'feels' and pros/cons. I've driven almost everything outside of the exotics, and can say with emphasis that what the E39 M5 offered was unique at the price I got mine (mid $20k mark with very low miles). I didn't choose the car for status, I chose it because I loved the way it drove, sounded, felt, etc. It's not a flashy car by any stretch. If I was going for status I could have picked up a Ferrari 308 or Turbo 4 Lotus Esprit for about the same cash. Both of which are WAAAY more status than a lowly BMW sedan.

Saying BMW/Merc/Lexus drivers are only paying for the status isn't fair to all of their drivers. Some maybe, possibly even most, but certainly not all.

But, to be honest, I feel the same way about Escalade/H2 drivers. They roll around in 3-ton tanks getting ~10-15mpg, and almost invariably drive the car empty around city streets, never touching the design capability of the vehicle.

 

[exdeath]

Originally posted by: Arkaign

Originally posted by: exdeath

Originally posted by: sjwaste
I didn't have much trouble discerning the OP's point, that the BMW/Mercedes/Lexus is a poor value because you are simply paying for the status

Fixed 😉

^^^ In your opinion.

They all have their 'feels' and pros/cons. I've driven almost everything outside of the exotics, and can say with emphasis that what the E39 M5 offered was unique at the price I got mine (mid $20k mark with very low miles). I didn't choose the car for status, I chose it because I loved the way it drove, sounded, felt, etc. It's not a flashy car by any stretch. If I was going for status I could have picked up a Ferrari 308 or Turbo 4 Lotus Esprit for about the same cash. Both of which are WAAAY more status than a lowly BMW sedan.

Saying BMW/Merc/Lexus drivers are only paying for the status isn't fair to all of their drivers. Some maybe, possibly even most, but certainly not all.

But, to be honest, I feel the same way about Escalade/H2 drivers. They roll around in 3-ton tanks getting ~10-15mpg, and almost invariably drive the car empty around city streets, never touching the design capability of the vehicle.

I edited my post with an example to clarify. There are exceptions, ie: M series, etc. And they are excellent value when you get them slightly used for 1/4 MSRP 3 months after release. Personally I have a soft spot for the E46 M3.

But for the most part, especially with the down market models, you are paying for name and image alone. I mean come on, the interior of a C class Mercedes feels like a $6000 '99 Kia but it's still more expensive and gets praise and admiration simply because it say "Mercedes". C = Cheap knockoff? It's made for welfare folks who want to be ballin in a Benz yo.

 

[Arkaign]

Yeah, I agree, for the most part I don't see the point of things like $30k 325i and the like. $30k will buy a far superior Acura TL, Maxima, G8, etc.

But there's a balance, and there are compelling reasons for people who can afford and want luxury vehicles to go that route. Free country and all, I don't hold grudges against behemoth SUV folks, though I have the damnedest time seeing around them in traffic.

 

[exdeath]

Originally posted by: Arkaign
Yeah, I agree, for the most part I don't see the point of things like $30k 325i and the like. $30k will buy a far superior Acura TL, Maxima, G8, etc.

But there's a balance, and there are compelling reasons for people who can afford and want luxury vehicles to go that route. Free country and all, I don't hold grudges against behemoth SUV folks, though I have the damnedest time seeing around them in traffic.

Yeah free country. I'm just stating my view. I enjoy being smarter and having better cars for the money even if someone thinks it inferior because its "just a Toyota" 🙂 (there wasn't a Lexus in '06 that outmatched or out featured the '06 Avalon)

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: exdeath

Originally posted by: Arkaign
Yeah, I agree, for the most part I don't see the point of things like $30k 325i and the like. $30k will buy a far superior Acura TL, Maxima, G8, etc.

But there's a balance, and there are compelling reasons for people who can afford and want luxury vehicles to go that route. Free country and all, I don't hold grudges against behemoth SUV folks, though I have the damnedest time seeing around them in traffic.

Yeah free country. I'm just stating my view. I enjoy being smarter and having better cars for the money even if someone thinks it inferior because its "just a Toyota" 🙂

Heh, well admittedly, we're a bit more educated about the car game than the average folks. After all, we're nerdy enough to chill in a 'garage' forum lol.

People who measure a car's worth purely on the badge are missing the point, I think. That kind of thinking has led to some horrible deals in the past. Cadillac Cimarron, Lexus ES250, IS250, 4-banger Mercedes Sedans, etc.

 

[Dman877]

Nothing wrong with 4cyl mercs. You should see what they have in Europe. The first time a 4cyl S-class drives by, you'll be laughing your ass off but there's a reason for it so don't knock it 😛

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: Dman877
Nothing wrong with 4cyl mercs. You should see what they have in Europe. The first time a 4cyl S-class drives by, you'll be laughing your ass off but there's a reason for it so don't knock it 😛

Unless they're getting 35mpg (US, not imperial), I just don't see the point.

Diesels at least have the torque to provide an adequate driving experience even with lower displacement/hp, but sub-200hp 4,000lb vehicle FTL. For the money of an S-class, I'm sure a Mondeo with a decent motor is available.

 

[sjwaste]

I didn't realize the early '00 M5's were going for 20k or so, but I just looked on Autotrader and there they are. I wonder, though, what's maintenance going to cost on that, even if I only drive 7500 miles a year?

 

[rh71]

Originally posted by: sjwaste
I didn't realize the early '00 M5's were going for 20k or so, but I just looked on Autotrader and there they are. I wonder, though, what's maintenance going to cost on that, even if I only drive 7500 miles a year?

Regular oil changes cost $100+ after free maintenance runs out. I'll tell you that much. 8 year-old high-performance car... it will be an expensive 7500miles/yr. I only do about 5k-6k and I'm not looking forward to the 5th year and beyond, but at least I'll know the vehicle history, low mileage, and will have treated it right... so whatever.

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: sjwaste
I didn't realize the early '00 M5's were going for 20k or so, but I just looked on Autotrader and there they are. I wonder, though, what's maintenance going to cost on that, even if I only drive 7500 miles a year?

Expensive but fun. Frequent $$ Killers are :

Tires
Brakes (in particular)

I'd say $500-$700 in maintenance is what to expect every 7500k miles, with another $3-$5k to stand ready in case of something serious like a tranny rebuild or whatever.

 

[exdeath]

Originally posted by: Arkaign

Originally posted by: sjwaste
I didn't realize the early '00 M5's were going for 20k or so, but I just looked on Autotrader and there they are. I wonder, though, what's maintenance going to cost on that, even if I only drive 7500 miles a year?

Expensive but fun. Frequent $$ Killers are :

Tires
Brakes (in particular)

I'd say $500-$700 in maintenance is what to expect every 7500k miles, with another $3-$5k to stand ready in case of something serious like a tranny rebuild or whatever.

Ugh... who cares about gas prices when you gotta spend $400 for a pair of tires every 8k miles.

Boosted V8 is just too much fun.

 

[sjwaste]

This is in response to the above 3, I appreciate the info!

$100 for an oil change is steep. What's to stop me from climbing under the car and doing it myself? Did they manage to make it so that special tools are required for a routine oil change? A case of Mobil 1 and a filter ran me ~50, which isn't cheap, but doable.

Brakes and tires. Well, I can understand that. A set of tires tended to last me a year on the Supra as well. Brakes lasted longer, but that's because I put a lot of highway miles on it. I can do 4 corners in under 2 hrs myself, so brakes aren't a big deal. Tire costs will suck though, can't do that in the driveway 🙂

Are they pretty reliable cars, mechanically and electrically? I'm coming from an ODB-I car, so I'm not used to a million sensors to go bad, etc. Plus, the turbos on the Supra were fairly reliable.

 

[Ns1]

Quick search would say you can't use straight mobil1 synth 5w30, you need some special shit which ranges from 10-20$ quart depending on what dealership you go to

http://www.bimmerfest.com/foru...howthread.php?t=125495

8.x quarts

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: sjwaste
This is in response to the above 3, I appreciate the info!

$100 for an oil change is steep. What's to stop me from climbing under the car and doing it myself? Did they manage to make it so that special tools are required for a routine oil change? A case of Mobil 1 and a filter ran me ~50, which isn't cheap, but doable.

Brakes and tires. Well, I can understand that. A set of tires tended to last me a year on the Supra as well. Brakes lasted longer, but that's because I put a lot of highway miles on it. I can do 4 corners in under 2 hrs myself, so brakes aren't a big deal. Tire costs will suck though, can't do that in the driveway 🙂

Are they pretty reliable cars, mechanically and electrically? I'm coming from an ODB-I car, so I'm not used to a million sensors to go bad, etc. Plus, the turbos on the Supra were fairly reliable.

I used this as a guide, if you do it yourself.

http://www.bimmerfest.com/foru...howthread.php?t=215513

Otherwise the onboard computer has no idea and will nag you about it.

 

[melijak]

The early 335 had a fuel pomp issues (bad parts) so check if it was replaced. The 07+ have oil cooler, you can see it above the front left tire I think.

 

[wasssup]

I carpool to work with someone who has a 2007 (or 2008, not sure but it's fairly new with 17k miles) 328xi. She spent over $40k, the car seems to have good pickup but I really don't think the car's anything special. I might be biased, but I think my 08 TSX (6-speed) at a touch over $30k was a way better deal.. 🙂

 

[sjwaste]

Originally posted by: wasssup
I carpool to work with someone who has a 2007 (or 2008, not sure but it's fairly new with 17k miles) 328xi. She spent over $40k, the car seems to have good pickup but I really don't think the car's anything special. I might be biased, but I think my 08 TSX (6-speed) at a touch over $30k was a way better deal.. 🙂

I'd agree, but I'm somewhat biased in that even though I don't love the looks of the TSX, I like the Acura no-options model. A la carte options/packages are a great idea in theory, but the reality is they create a lower base MSRP for advertising or price class purposes, and leave you with a significantly more expensive car otherwise. At least with the Acuras, I can know what I'm going to spend at a glance.

Yes, I'm jaded by the fact that I was all set on an 08 CTS until it optioned out to about 40k if I didn't want a vinyl interior and added the things you'd expect in a car with a 34k base. 🙂

I'm horrible with this decision, though. I can't decide if I want to spend 30k on something I really like (it's a stretch for an 07 335 or a new TSX) or just call it a day at 20k and get a loaded Corolla that will also be good on gas and maintenance.

 

[Cobalt]

Originally posted by: exdeath

Originally posted by: Arkaign

Originally posted by: sjwaste
I didn't realize the early '00 M5's were going for 20k or so, but I just looked on Autotrader and there they are. I wonder, though, what's maintenance going to cost on that, even if I only drive 7500 miles a year?

Expensive but fun. Frequent $$ Killers are :

Tires
Brakes (in particular)

I'd say $500-$700 in maintenance is what to expect every 7500k miles, with another $3-$5k to stand ready in case of something serious like a tranny rebuild or whatever.

Ugh... who cares about gas prices when you gotta spend $400 for a pair of tires every 8k miles.

Boosted V8 is just too much fun.

M5 is all NA fun, no boost necessary. :thumbsup:

 

[Toastedlightly]

Originally posted by: exdeath

Originally posted by: BarneyFife

Originally posted by: Dman877
I love people who claim they can drive in 10 inches of snow "no problem". I don't care who you are or how good you are, you're not driving a rwd bmw in 10 inches of snow with "no problem." Most wussified suv's sold these days can't handle 10 inches of snow as they only have 8 inches of ground clearance and can't put enough pressure on the road to do anything useful.

A lot of people live on hills or they have a steep driveway. For those people, awd is necessary in places where they get 100+ inches a year. It doesn't matter how uber your snow tires are either. On an unplowed road, in a rwd vehicle on a 15 degree incline, you'll be going no where.

Exactly. Anyone that says they drive a rwd in 3" snow let alone 10" with ease is full of shit.

Why does it matter if its rwd or not, driving in ice or snow is never fun in any vehicle.

Well, I must be full of shit then, cause I drove a RWD pickup truck through ~10 inches of snow 😛

Whoops, forgot to mention the 400lbs of sand in the bed and the posi-traction rear end.

 

[wasssup]

Originally posted by: sjwaste

Originally posted by: wasssup
I carpool to work with someone who has a 2007 (or 2008, not sure but it's fairly new with 17k miles) 328xi. She spent over $40k, the car seems to have good pickup but I really don't think the car's anything special. I might be biased, but I think my 08 TSX (6-speed) at a touch over $30k was a way better deal.. 🙂

I'd agree, but I'm somewhat biased in that even though I don't love the looks of the TSX, I like the Acura no-options model. A la carte options/packages are a great idea in theory, but the reality is they create a lower base MSRP for advertising or price class purposes, and leave you with a significantly more expensive car otherwise. At least with the Acuras, I can know what I'm going to spend at a glance.

Yes, I'm jaded by the fact that I was all set on an 08 CTS until it optioned out to about 40k if I didn't want a vinyl interior and added the things you'd expect in a car with a 34k base. 🙂

I'm horrible with this decision, though. I can't decide if I want to spend 30k on something I really like (it's a stretch for an 07 335 or a new TSX) or just call it a day at 20k and get a loaded Corolla that will also be good on gas and maintenance.

I was in the same boat as you for the longest time, even $30k to me is a ridiculous sum of money for a car. What pushed me to get the TSX was a Civic EX costs almost $20k OTD, an Accord EX costs almost $24k OTD, and the TSX was almost $29k OTD (I did the 2.9% financing just because I dislike paying cash for cars, with that it was $31.5k OTD or something).

I guess with me, I figured I was keeping the car for at least 10 years so I might as well spend a little more now and buy something I'll be happy with...if I didn't keep cars that long I might have done things differently.