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DirectX 12

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It will be really interesting to see how they tackle multithreading in this version. Will they go with the previous DX11model where the majority of the responsibility falls on the drivers, but with enhancements for greater efficiency and ease of implementation?

Or will it be more like mantle where the main responsibility falls on the API?

The Mantle route seems more effective at a glance with more explicit parallelization, but there might be some kind of issue with this approach due to legacy support.
 
Does it come with a new OS ?! 🙂
Another useless release.
Developers got smarter in the mean time.
Mantle has just switched the focus of the game developers.

Warning issued for thread crapping.
-- stahlhart
 
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I really hope today's GPUs will be able to benefit from its software improvements

It won't take off for the next ten years if it's exclusive to Windows 9 though.
 
Deceneu said:
Does it come with a new OS ?! 🙂
Another useless release.
Developers got smarter in the mean time.
Mantle has just switched the focus of the game developers.
Click to expand...

Unlikely.

If AMD and Nvidia are behind this (I see AMD and Nvidia logos on that site), Mantle is dead in the water.
 
Carfax83 said:
It will be really interesting to see how they tackle multithreading in this version. Will they go with the previous DX11model where the majority of the responsibility falls on the drivers, but with enhancements for greater efficiency and ease of implementation?

Or will it be more like mantle where the main responsibility falls on the API?

The Mantle route seems more effective at a glance with more explicit parallelization, but there might be some kind of issue with this approach due to legacy support.
Click to expand...

I've brought this up a hundred times in the mantle thread, but I'll say it one more time. Why does legacy support/backwards compatibility matter? No graphics api in history has provided backwards compatibility. It falls on the GPU itself to support previous api's, and not the api to provide support for previous GPUs.

Backwards compatibility is not a problem with mantle, not will it be with dx12.
 
There is a big difference between Dx and mantle as far a legacy support is concerned. DX 12 wont play older games, true, but previous versions allow one to play any game basically made within what, the last 10 or 15 years. There is *no* previous version of mantle, so it will always be a value add to DX, because DX will always be required to play legacy games, games that run on nVidia or Intel hardware, and all future games not specifically designed for mantle. I guess some people consider only being able to play a very small minority of games "not a problem" but I certainly see it as one.
 
frozentundra123456 said:
There is a big difference between Dx and mantle as far a legacy support is concerned. DX 12 wont play older games, true, but previous versions allow one to play any game basically made within what, the last 10 or 15 years. There is *no* previous version of mantle, so it will always be a value add to DX, because DX will always be required to play legacy games, games that run on nVidia or Intel hardware, and all future games not specifically designed for mantle. I guess some people consider only being able to play a very small minority of games "not a problem" but I certainly see it as one.
Click to expand...

What I think he means is that DX12 or Mantle are irrelevant for games using any older DirectX version. DX8 or DX9 games aren't running in DX11, they're still just DX8 and DX9, and the vendors support those APIs.
There's nothing preventing AMD, Nvidia or Intel supporting all previous DirectX versions just because new games use a new API.
 
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VulgarDisplay said:
I've brought this up a hundred times in the mantle thread, but I'll say it one more time. Why does legacy support/backwards compatibility matter? No graphics api in history has provided backwards compatibility. It falls on the GPU itself to support previous api's, and not the api to provide support for previous GPUs.

Backwards compatibility is not a problem with mantle, not will it be with dx12.
Click to expand...

DX11 provides limited backward compatibility with DX10 and DX9.. As for why legacy support matters, do you want to have to create another Windows installation with an older version of Windows to play older games?

I sure as hell don't.
 
Carfax83 said:
DX11 provides limited backward compatibility with DX10 and DX9.. As for why legacy support matters, do you want to have to create another Windows installation with an older version of Windows to play older games?

I sure as hell don't.
Click to expand...

I must be hallucinating when I have to install direct 9 to run older games. The GPU supports dx9, dx11 does not.
 
I came across this the other day and not sure if this info has been posted or not. 🙂

Last week a new information appeared suggesting that both OpenGL and DirectX will receive a major upgrades. Special sessions will be held at GDC2014.

OpenGL: Approaching Zero Driver Overhead in OpenGL (Presented by NVIDIA)
Driver overhead has been a frustrating reality for game developers for the entire life of the PC game industry. On desktop systems, driver overhead can decrease frame rate, while on mobile devices driver overhead is more insidious–robbing both battery life and frame rate. In this unprecedented sponsored session, Graham Sellers (AMD), Tim Foley (Intel), Cass

Everitt (NVIDIA) and John McDonald (NVIDIA) will present high-level concepts available in today’s OpenGL implementations that radically reduce driver overhead–by up to 10x or more. The techniques presented will apply to all major vendors and are suitable for use across multiple platforms. Additionally, they will demonstrate practical demos of the techniques in action in an extensible, open source comparison framework.

NVIDIA rather than showing more interest in Mantle decided to focus on OpenGL. The main idea here is driver overhead reduction by 10 times. The only question is, why no one has thought about developing it sooner.

DirectX: Direct3D Futures (Presented by Microsoft)
Come learn how future changes to Direct3D will enable next generation games to run faster than ever before!
In this session we will discuss future improvements in Direct3D that will allow developers an unprecedented level of hardware control and reduced CPU rendering overhead across a broad ecosystem of hardware.
If you use cutting-edge 3D graphics in your games, middleware, or engines and want to efficiently build rich and immersive visuals, you don’t want to miss this talk.
Similarly to OpenGL, DirectX (12.0) would focus on CPU usage reduction.

DirectX: Evolving Microsoft’s Graphics Platform (Presented by Microsoft)
For nearly 20 years, DirectX has been the platform used by game developers to create the fastest, most visually impressive games on the planet.
However, you asked us to do more. You asked us to bring you even closer to the metal and to do so on an unparalleled assortment of hardware. You also asked us for better tools so that you can squeeze every last drop of performance out of your PC, tablet, phone and console.
Come learn our plans to deliver.
Click to expand...

http://videocardz.com/49777/list-upcoming-games-support-mantle-api
 
I actually wonder now if amd's mantle work will directly translate into dx12. Could mantle be their interface between their hardware and Microsoft's new dx?

Mantle uses dx hlsl already so it doesn't seem that farfetched.
 
I hope it's mostly compatible with DX11 hardware,
also... consoles are DX11 hardware, last time it was a problem, consoles (and XP, if dx12 is not compatible with W7 the same could happen) kept DX9 alive for a long, long time.
 
What intrigues me most is that Qualcomm's logo is lined up there along with Intel's, AMD's, and Nvidia's. :hmm:
 
Red Hawk said:
What intrigues me most is that Qualcomm's logo is lined up there along with Intel's, AMD's, and Nvidia's. :hmm:
Click to expand...
It makes sense since all Windows Phone supports is Qualcomm. Also, Windows Phone uses DirectX and not a DirectX like API like the Xbone.
 
VulgarDisplay said:
I must be hallucinating when I have to install direct 9 to run older games. The GPU supports dx9, dx11 does not.
Click to expand...

You must be hallucinating. After I do a fresh install of Windows, I always run the dx web update. It doesn't install dx9, it just updates to the latest files.
 
Carfax83 said:
You must be hallucinating. After I do a fresh install of Windows, I always run the dx web update. It doesn't install dx9, it just updates to the latest files.
Click to expand...

dxwebsetup is directx 9....the entire API. That's why when you go to dxdiag it shows DX10 in Vista or DX11 in win 7/8. DX10/11 are the same API. DX11 is a [edited]superset of Dx10. DX9 is entirely separate.
 
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Carfax83 said:
You must be hallucinating. After I do a fresh install of Windows, I always run the dx web update. It doesn't install dx9, it just updates to the latest files.
Click to expand...

A lot of games just bundle DX9 in the installer. DX10 was fully back compat, as is 11. Now, I have seen an issue with games requiring a SPECIFIC DLL to be present (I'm looking at you, stealth bastard!) but that's a game issue with poor design.
 
RampantAndroid said:
A lot of games just bundle DX9 in the installer. DX10 was fully back compat, as is 11. Now, I have seen an issue with games requiring a SPECIFIC DLL to be present (I'm looking at you, stealth bastard!) but that's a game issue with poor design.
Click to expand...

Nope, see my response above yours.
 
Yes DX12 is a long ways away. Games are DX10 , at most DX11 ,,,,,,,,,,,,, DX12 is not coming anytime soon. gl
 
This is great, truly. New DX versions mean exciting things down the road, and I mean dowwwwwn the road like 6 years but its still cool.
 
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