That's what I've seen as well, but every time I call them they state that it's not supported. It's like most things, the customers seem to know more about the product then the company does. Might as well just try it at this point though.
That's what I've seen as well, but every time I call them they state that it's not supported. It's like most things, the customers seem to know more about the product then the company does. Might as well just try it at this point though.
Yeah, the HR34 will supply an internet connection across the rest of the network if you plug a cable directly into it. That connection is not supported by DirecTV and the HR2x boxes don't have the same capability. They require the CCK. You can run a separate connection to each box and bypass the CCK and it will still work, but the CCK is usually easier and any box you don't connect won't be on the whole home network or have internet access.
I am assuming you dont have ethernet in every room you have a box then..
To me. The CCK is for people who are not tech savy. All the CCK does is use a form of ethernet over coax. More hardware, more plugs, more stuff to fail.
The installer that came to my house when i got my HR34 asked how i had whole home when i didnt have DECA boxes. After arguing for 20 minutes about how DECA works and the difference between DECA and ethernet i told him to just hook the HR34 up and see what happens. He told me they are trained to not support that type of connection. My guess, they dont want their techs having to deal with peoples routers and networks in there home.
Whole-Home DVR and the internet connection are actually ethernet signals that are diplexed on to the coax line feeding each receiver. It's a MoCA setup, actually. The CCKs are used to piggy back the signal from a 3rd party router onto the coax line and DECA adapters combine/split the signals on the boxes that don't have it built in.
The piggy backed signal comes into the room on the coax and connects to the DECA adapter on one end. The signal gets split in the DECA and the other end of the DECA has a coax connection that carries the Sat signal to the Sat-In port of the receiver and an ethernet connection that carries the Whole-Home/Internet signal to the receiver's ethernet port. H24, HR24, H25 and HR34 have the DECA adapters built in. The rest of the HD boxes will have the DECA about 4-6 inches behind the Sat-In 1 connector. None of this applies to the upcoming HR44.
Let's say you have 2 HDDVRs and 2 HD receivers and you have whole-home DVR but no internet connection, then the Receivers obtain their own IP addresses that are in the form 169.254.x.x. If you were to go into the System Info of each Device, you'd get IP addressing like this:
HDDVR 1 - 169.254.1.16
HDDVR 2 - 169.254.1.12
HD Rec 1 - 169.254.1.14
HD Rec 2 - 169.254.1.17
From that point, sharing of recordings is just like sharing files across a network. Batman was recorded at 169.254.1.12. 169.254.1.14 is requesting it and it gets shared across the network on the piggybacked signal.
Let's say you sign up for a new DSL connection and you decide to run an ethernet cable into the back of HDDVR 1. When you do that, the router takes over the assigning of the IP addresses and your IP addressing will look something like this:
HDDVR 1 - 192.168.1.13 (assigned by the router)
HDDVR 2 - 169.254.1.12
HD Rec 1 - 169.254.1.14
HD Rec 2 - 169.254.1.17
Now HDDVR 1 is now on a separate network and can't see or share with the other devices, but it will be the only device in the system that has access to the internet. You could run an ethernet cable to all 4 boxes at all 4 different locations and get:
HDDVR 1 - 192.168.1.13
HDDVR 2 - 192.168.1.12
HD Rec 1 - 192.168.1.14
HD Rec 2 - 192.168.1.17
They're all on the same network, all sharing recordings and all connected to the internet.
This can be a pain because 90% of the population doesn't have an active ethernet port in each room of their house where they watch TV so they can't run an ethernet cable to each box. Not to mention, setting up a coax and ethernet connection from different centralized locations can be cumbersome and just adds another messy cable to each box. That's where the CCK comes in. The CCK is just like a reverse DECA and there are 2 types, wired and wireless. You can put it anywhere on any coax line for the DirecTV system and it will piggyback an ethernet signal onto the coax line. If it's a wired CCK, you'll just run an ethernet cable to the CCK where it connects to the DirecTV coax line and the ethernet signal will be brought to all DirecTV boxes from that point. Wireless CCKs are really just bridges with a built-in MoCA adapter. Just place it anywhere in the DirecTV coax line and establish the wireless connection with your wireless router and the ethernet signal will be carried to all of the DirecTV boxes on the system. Makes it a lot simpler and cleaner.
The HDDVRs and HD receivers can accept an active ethernet signal but can't establish one to the rest of the receivers on the system. The HR34 has a reverse DECA that can. You CAN plug an ethernet cable into the HR34 and skip the CCK altogether. The HR34's reverse DECA will put the ethernet signal on the coax line and send it to the other boxes. For some reason, though, DirecTV says this is an unauthorized connection and the installers are require to hook it up using a CCK anyway or they get penalized. The technical support agents aren't taught this either and they would only know if they heard from somewhere else or found out by playing with the hardware on their own systems.
The HR44 has a built-in wireless CCK-W and reverse DECA so the CCKs are completely redundant. You will not be allowed to have an HR44 and a wireless CCK. You would be allowed a wired CCK and the installer would have to get a waiver and disable the internal wireless CCK in the HR44.
The C31 clients and the upcoming C41 clients just mirror what's happening in the HR34 or HR44 none of this is really applicable. If the HR34/HR44 is internet connected, the clients will be, too.
Sorry if this is long, just wanted to be thorough.
The piggy backed signal comes into the room on the coax and connects to the DECA adapter on one end. The signal gets split in the DECA and the other end of the DECA has a coax connection that carries the Sat signal to the Sat-In port of the receiver and an ethernet connection that carries the Whole-Home/Internet signal to the receiver's ethernet port. H24, HR24, H25 and HR34 have the DECA adapters built in. The rest of the HD boxes will have the DECA about 4-6 inches behind the Sat-In 1 connector. None of this applies to the upcoming HR44.
Let's say you have 2 HDDVRs and 2 HD receivers and you have whole-home DVR but no internet connection, then the Receivers obtain their own IP addresses that are in the form 169.254.x.x. If you were to go into the System Info of each Device, you'd get IP addressing like this:
HDDVR 1 - 169.254.1.16
HDDVR 2 - 169.254.1.12
HD Rec 1 - 169.254.1.14
HD Rec 2 - 169.254.1.17
From that point, sharing of recordings is just like sharing files across a network. Batman was recorded at 169.254.1.12. 169.254.1.14 is requesting it and it gets shared across the network on the piggybacked signal.
Let's say you sign up for a new DSL connection and you decide to run an ethernet cable into the back of HDDVR 1. When you do that, the router takes over the assigning of the IP addresses and your IP addressing will look something like this:
HDDVR 1 - 192.168.1.13 (assigned by the router)
HDDVR 2 - 169.254.1.12
HD Rec 1 - 169.254.1.14
HD Rec 2 - 169.254.1.17
Now HDDVR 1 is now on a separate network and can't see or share with the other devices, but it will be the only device in the system that has access to the internet. You could run an ethernet cable to all 4 boxes at all 4 different locations and get:
HDDVR 1 - 192.168.1.13
HDDVR 2 - 192.168.1.12
HD Rec 1 - 192.168.1.14
HD Rec 2 - 192.168.1.17
They're all on the same network, all sharing recordings and all connected to the internet.
This can be a pain because 90% of the population doesn't have an active ethernet port in each room of their house where they watch TV so they can't run an ethernet cable to each box. Not to mention, setting up a coax and ethernet connection from different centralized locations can be cumbersome and just adds another messy cable to each box. That's where the CCK comes in. The CCK is just like a reverse DECA and there are 2 types, wired and wireless. You can put it anywhere on any coax line for the DirecTV system and it will piggyback an ethernet signal onto the coax line. If it's a wired CCK, you'll just run an ethernet cable to the CCK where it connects to the DirecTV coax line and the ethernet signal will be brought to all DirecTV boxes from that point. Wireless CCKs are really just bridges with a built-in MoCA adapter. Just place it anywhere in the DirecTV coax line and establish the wireless connection with your wireless router and the ethernet signal will be carried to all of the DirecTV boxes on the system. Makes it a lot simpler and cleaner.
The HDDVRs and HD receivers can accept an active ethernet signal but can't establish one to the rest of the receivers on the system. The HR34 has a reverse DECA that can. You CAN plug an ethernet cable into the HR34 and skip the CCK altogether. The HR34's reverse DECA will put the ethernet signal on the coax line and send it to the other boxes. For some reason, though, DirecTV says this is an unauthorized connection and the installers are require to hook it up using a CCK anyway or they get penalized. The technical support agents aren't taught this either and they would only know if they heard from somewhere else or found out by playing with the hardware on their own systems.
The HR44 has a built-in wireless CCK-W and reverse DECA so the CCKs are completely redundant. You will not be allowed to have an HR44 and a wireless CCK. You would be allowed a wired CCK and the installer would have to get a waiver and disable the internal wireless CCK in the HR44.
The C31 clients and the upcoming C41 clients just mirror what's happening in the HR34 or HR44 none of this is really applicable. If the HR34/HR44 is internet connected, the clients will be, too.
Sorry if this is long, just wanted to be thorough.
Fair enough...
I have ethernet in every room in my house, and in that same wall plate, i have coax.
Everything runs to a central location in a closet in my basement.
My router, my patch panel and the splitter for SWM are all in one spot.
I would rather run all the whole home stuff over coax, over a gige switch. Call me old school, but i still dont think the wireless stuff works as steady as wires for streaming.
I have ethernet in every room in my house, and in that same wall plate, i have coax.
Everything runs to a central location in a closet in my basement.
My router, my patch panel and the splitter for SWM are all in one spot.
I would rather run all the whole home stuff over coax, over a gige switch. Call me old school, but i still dont think the wireless stuff works as steady as wires for streaming.
yeah would be nice, I have like 60% of my house wired, its from the 60's and parts of it are NOT easy to get to
Gunslinger08
Lifer
- Nov 18, 2001
- 13,234
- 2
- 81
My whole home DVR stopped working yesterday for some reason. I think it's probably because I just wall mounted the TV where my SWM power inserter is and it probably got jostled and lost power or signal. Unplugged everything, plugged in the PI, then plugged in the receivers one by one. Everything's working now. Very weird.
Dude! Incredible response. That's the kind of info I'm looking for. I'm old school and prefer wired when possible, I have Gigabit switches and ethernet to every room of my house. I was wondering why the 'Genie' aka HR34, had an Ethernet port on the back, but then the installer gave me that Cinema Connection Kit (CCK) thing, but I insisted he connect the CCK to my network via Ethernet and he did. I found my DHCP server gave the HR34 an IP and I changed the DHCP server around to give it a static IP, I like to know where my equipment is. But I was tracking a 'rogue' IP down today and eventually traced it to the client. I wasn't aware the Client, aka C31, got an IP also. Yeah both the HR34 (Genie) and C31 (Client) got it's IP via the single connection to the CCK. Based on your reading, I can just remove the CCK altogether, plug the ethernet into the HR34 and both will get an IP just the same. Based on previous posts, this actually may remove some lag and delay issues with on-demand as well? I'm all for one less piece of equipment over-complicating things. The CCK has its own separate power source and is just another device to fail, if it's un-necessary, and even possibly causing issues, then I'll yank it out tomorrow.
Any idea what the ethernet-over-coax speed is? 10/100/1000? Guess it won't matter, there's no way to connect ethernet straight into the client, it'll have to come in via Coax, but the HR34 will do it.
Yeah, you could bypass the CCK entirely but DirecTV doesn't want you to know that. I don't know that it will speed anything up but it is one less thing to go wrong.
The C31s will all get their own IP address. DVR recordings are shared via Ethernet. In fact, since clients don't have their own tuners and rely on the Genie for everything, I don't think the coax signal from the dish is even utilized by them. I believe they are 100% Ethernet and could be run completely wireless. In fact, rumors speculate that next gen will be wireless. I think DirecTV is just waiting for 802.11ac standards to be finalized. No way you'd try to do it with N.
I don't know which MoCA standard they are using, using but I'm sure it's running somewhere close to 100Mb/s.
Gunslinger08
Lifer
- Nov 18, 2001
- 13,234
- 2
- 81
Yeah, I completely removed the CCK about a week after my install and plugged ethernet directly into my HR34. The CCK, at least in the past, was reported to cause skipping in downloaded shows. Removing it fixed the problem for me.
if the MoCA is at 100.....in theory 5ghz N would be fine for it wouldnt it?
Not that I want my direcTV stuff trying to stomp all over my personal WIFI
AC is supposed to penetrate worse than N
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In theory, "Yes". In practice, "No".
Wireless still has so much overhead and so many obstacles, that you'll never achieve advertised transmission rates.
I used to have my dual band router set to have the 2.4ghz band handle my internet and PC activities. I kept the 5ghz band for media streaming. I was able to playback my ripped DVD and BR content but would occasionally get a blip. FF/Rew? Not a chance. The latency was too high and/or the bandwidth just not enough. I finally gave up and ran a hardwire through a tbase 100 switch I had lying around and it worked fine.
N penetrates just fine, BTW. It's 5ghz vs. 2.4ghz that creates the penetrations issues. shorter wavelengths get blocked more easily. I don't know much about the 802.11ac standards yet, but if they run on the 2.4ghz band, I don't see much of an issue coming up.
Got a Slimline-3 SWM, HR34 and 3 HR25 clients when they were pretty new. Now they call the HR34 the Genie (good marketing move IMO). I have the DECA and everything works GREAT! Genie has 5 tuners. I can watch different live or recorded programs on all 4 TVs and share the Genie playlist on all 3 clients. The only improvement I could want is the ability to use trick play features on the clients without having to record what I'm watching to do so, but it's a small thing. Having internet distributed to all boxes via coax is dead simple. Can't imagine why anybody would want to make it more complicated with ethernet connections to each box, though my house is fully wired with cat6 in every room so I could easily do it that way but why mess with success?
My On Demand features work very well. Once in a while while streaming a show I get an erroneous message that there is a problem because the connection is too slow, but I just select "continue, fix it later" and it keeps playing just fine.
The only time the system bogged down was when they first pushed out the Genie update. The Genie must have been working constantly to cache all the recommended shows. The HR34 suddenly seemed sluggish. I found how to turn Genie recommendations off in the TV shows section of the search page and it started running fast again. I don't care about recommendations and with the huge library of On Demand content available, I can watch practically anything I care about, anytime. I use it a lot and rarely watch live TV. I find that I'm using the Genie's playlist less and less all the time.
I was a Direct TIVO fanatic for many years and gave them up reluctantly so I could get full HD content, but I easily adjusted to the HR34 and much to my surprise, I now actually prefer it to TIVO and the boxes only need 1 coax each, not 2. I use the extra coax to distribute my OTA antenna for FM radio now. I can also use it for OTA TV if satellite should go out, but I have never felt the need to do that. In the worst storms I get maybe 5-10 min of rain fade, max, and that is very rare. Cable outages were fairly frequent, usually involved that stupid cable van coming out, and could take days to resolve.
I have FIOS at work and I find their DVR interface lousy and the box freezes and has to be rebooted at least once a week. I just got Comcast for my mother-in-law's condo and was insulted by the gigantic 2004 cable boxes the installer delivered. They have DVI and component outputs, but no HDMI and my TVs can't complete the handshake with a DVI to HDMI adapter. Even my 2004 Panasonic plasma with a DVI in doesn't like that box. What a bunch of garbage, just to watch cable and I didn't even order DVR functions for her because she wouldn't know how to work it and doesn't care.
I am totally sold on Genie. It came to me as an HR34, but has improved since D pushed out the Genie package and it just keeps getting better. Simple hook up, simple operation, intuitive interface, medium sized, attractive, DVR box (way smaller than the DCT6200 cable boxes Comcast still foists on people), tiny HR25 client boxes ('bout the size of a 400 page paperback) which you can stick to the back of your TV, one coax per box, no ethernet (except for the 1 to the DECA)...simply amazing.
BTW, one of my clients lost it's HDMI output last week. Called D, had a new one in 2 days. Had to call to get through the activation, but that was good too. Had a rep on the phone in under a minute. She was really nice, knew her stuff and got me hooked up in a flash. She skipped the usual troubleshooting steps because she could tell from my description of the problem and my efforts to fix it that I had done a thorough job of troubleshooting. She had to restart the Genie from her end because the new client wasn't seeing the Genie playlist and it is 3 stories up in my house. The reboot fixed that issue and I was back in business in short order. The whole process took less time than it usually takes to get a human being on the phone at Comcast and most of them start with page one of their script, waste half an hour of your time and end up making you bring in the box to their horrible local office to swap it out after the nasty people there give you a bunch of crap (reminds me of the DMV). Also, I can stream my DVR content to my iPhone, iPad and computers, both home and away.
I hate cable and my life has been so much better since I got DTV 9 or 10 years ago. I LOVE DirectTV, and no, I'm not affiliated with them in any way. Just a very happy customer who has had years of fabulous service with better content and hardware, for less money than the competition since the day I switched.
My On Demand features work very well. Once in a while while streaming a show I get an erroneous message that there is a problem because the connection is too slow, but I just select "continue, fix it later" and it keeps playing just fine.
The only time the system bogged down was when they first pushed out the Genie update. The Genie must have been working constantly to cache all the recommended shows. The HR34 suddenly seemed sluggish. I found how to turn Genie recommendations off in the TV shows section of the search page and it started running fast again. I don't care about recommendations and with the huge library of On Demand content available, I can watch practically anything I care about, anytime. I use it a lot and rarely watch live TV. I find that I'm using the Genie's playlist less and less all the time.
I was a Direct TIVO fanatic for many years and gave them up reluctantly so I could get full HD content, but I easily adjusted to the HR34 and much to my surprise, I now actually prefer it to TIVO and the boxes only need 1 coax each, not 2. I use the extra coax to distribute my OTA antenna for FM radio now. I can also use it for OTA TV if satellite should go out, but I have never felt the need to do that. In the worst storms I get maybe 5-10 min of rain fade, max, and that is very rare. Cable outages were fairly frequent, usually involved that stupid cable van coming out, and could take days to resolve.
I have FIOS at work and I find their DVR interface lousy and the box freezes and has to be rebooted at least once a week. I just got Comcast for my mother-in-law's condo and was insulted by the gigantic 2004 cable boxes the installer delivered. They have DVI and component outputs, but no HDMI and my TVs can't complete the handshake with a DVI to HDMI adapter. Even my 2004 Panasonic plasma with a DVI in doesn't like that box. What a bunch of garbage, just to watch cable and I didn't even order DVR functions for her because she wouldn't know how to work it and doesn't care.
I am totally sold on Genie. It came to me as an HR34, but has improved since D pushed out the Genie package and it just keeps getting better. Simple hook up, simple operation, intuitive interface, medium sized, attractive, DVR box (way smaller than the DCT6200 cable boxes Comcast still foists on people), tiny HR25 client boxes ('bout the size of a 400 page paperback) which you can stick to the back of your TV, one coax per box, no ethernet (except for the 1 to the DECA)...simply amazing.
BTW, one of my clients lost it's HDMI output last week. Called D, had a new one in 2 days. Had to call to get through the activation, but that was good too. Had a rep on the phone in under a minute. She was really nice, knew her stuff and got me hooked up in a flash. She skipped the usual troubleshooting steps because she could tell from my description of the problem and my efforts to fix it that I had done a thorough job of troubleshooting. She had to restart the Genie from her end because the new client wasn't seeing the Genie playlist and it is 3 stories up in my house. The reboot fixed that issue and I was back in business in short order. The whole process took less time than it usually takes to get a human being on the phone at Comcast and most of them start with page one of their script, waste half an hour of your time and end up making you bring in the box to their horrible local office to swap it out after the nasty people there give you a bunch of crap (reminds me of the DMV). Also, I can stream my DVR content to my iPhone, iPad and computers, both home and away.
I hate cable and my life has been so much better since I got DTV 9 or 10 years ago. I LOVE DirectTV, and no, I'm not affiliated with them in any way. Just a very happy customer who has had years of fabulous service with better content and hardware, for less money than the competition since the day I switched.
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I was talking about 'real' N....5ghz
AC is 5ghz
they will not go back to 2.4 in the near future, too much noise from other devices
I did not know that 2.4GHz N was fake. Learn something new every day. 
Anyway, I can confirm the new wireless DirecTV systems use 5GHz 802.11ac and has been tested to reliably work at 60 feet through 4 floors/walls. The entire system is closed, though and won't need any of your personal networking equipment (works seperately from the CCK-W connection). It will work from either the HR34 or HR44 but you'll need new wireless client boxes on the other end and you'll be able to mix/match wired and wireless client boxes. It will be out much, much sooner rather than later.
Anyway, I can confirm the new wireless DirecTV systems use 5GHz 802.11ac and has been tested to reliably work at 60 feet through 4 floors/walls. The entire system is closed, though and won't need any of your personal networking equipment (works seperately from the CCK-W connection). It will work from either the HR34 or HR44 but you'll need new wireless client boxes on the other end and you'll be able to mix/match wired and wireless client boxes. It will be out much, much sooner rather than later.
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Does the new stuff work with an Airport Extreme or Time Capsule as your router or is that still an issue?
It will have its own wireless system and won't use any of your existing equipment.... for the wireless receivers. Your CCK will still need to connect to your existing router/modem for internet services.
Right, the CCK doesn't work with the current crop of Apple routers, neither does skipping it and going straight into the HR34. Still haven't been able to get a straight answer on why it doesn't work and if it needs any ports forwarded, just that it doesn't work with Apple. So I have to go into my SMCD3G instead to get directv whole home to work.
It should work. There are known issues with Apple routers that I'm aware of. Check your MAC address (Menu>Settings and Help> Settings>Network Setup> Advanced Setup). Do you see all 'F' in the MAC address field? If so, you're HR34 needs to be replaced.
I did not know that 2.4GHz N was fake. Learn something new every day.
Anyway, I can confirm the new wireless DirecTV systems use 5GHz 802.11ac and has been tested to reliably work at 60 feet through 4 floors/walls. The entire system is closed, though and won't need any of your personal networking equipment (works seperately from the CCK-W connection. It will work either the HR34 or HR44 but you'll need new client boxes on the other end. It will be out much, much sooner rather than later.
2.4 band N will never hit the max advertised speeds of 5ghz N due to all the other crap in 2.4
thats why its 'fake N'
CCK and the HR34 both work fine connected to the SMC gateway (one or the other obviously), hook either of them up to the Time Capsule and whole home doesn't work at all. I've had them out to look, they tell me you can't use Apple routers with whole home.
2.4 band N will never hit the max advertised speeds of 5ghz N due to all the other crap in 2.4
thats why its 'fake N'
That's like saying my ex-wife was "fake" when in reality she was just slow.
Well, now that I think about it, she was a little of both, fake and slow.
Bad analogy.
LOL nice. You just can't really do wide channels in 2.4 which is one of the major enhancements to N. Less fake n...more one legged N ......that better?
Its why ac is 5ghz. 80hz wide channels. Rumors for post AC is something like 9ghz. We are very afraid at work BC of how many more APs we'll need due to poor penetration.
9GHz?!
Are they going to have to leave all of the antenna elements exposed because any plastic cover would cause unacceptable signal loss? I suppose if all of the workstations were in an open area but you'll probably have to have an AP in every, single room.
Are they going to have to leave all of the antenna elements exposed because any plastic cover would cause unacceptable signal loss? I suppose if all of the workstations were in an open area but you'll probably have to have an AP in every, single room.
well you want speed right?
no one should rely on wireless for workstation connectivity anyways imo(puts on network engineer hat), its for when wired just isnt an option
but thats OT to this thread
its pretty fancy that they are putting AC in the boxes already
no one should rely on wireless for workstation connectivity anyways imo(puts on network engineer hat), its for when wired just isnt an option
but thats OT to this thread
its pretty fancy that they are putting AC in the boxes already
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