Dietary questions concerning protein

[Muse]

Over 15 years ago, after a blood test, my doctor recommended I eat more red meat. She may have included green leafy vegetables, that would make sense. I had come in borderline anemic (i.e. slightly anemic). I was pretty active and still am.

I'm now with Kaiser Permanente and I'm no longer anemic, although I think I'm in the low area of the acceptable range for anemia pointers (hemoglobin, etc.). I've never forgotten about the red meat thing and eat some beef (probably between 40 and 60 lb/year). I eat some pork too, don't know if that's considered red meat. I have been eating almost no chicken, and once in a while open a can of tuna and make a tuna salad. I've cut way back on my eggs, eat maybe 3 a week, if that. My lipid panels have been coming in acceptable after being borderline or even a little problematical.

Anyway, TBH I'm concerned about the environment and info I've encountered has implicated the raising of cattle for beef to be highly detrimental. Belching and probably flatulence too from cows releases a lot of gases that evidently contribute considerably to the serious global warming problem. Raising cattle probably has other seriously negative ecological ramifications.

Well, I have my protein needs (yes, I'm pretty active) and I don't want to fall into anemia.

What are some options that may make sense for me (and others) regarding these considerations?

 

[whm1974]

I do believe that you do need vitamin C in order to absorb Iron from food. Also I do think that legumes are high in iron as well. I'm surprised that you are not taking iron pills for this condition.

 

[Muse]

I don't think any doctor has suggested my taking iron pills. I'm on again, off again in my dietary supplements... multi-vitamin, 1000mg C, glucosamine tabs, baby aspirin, anti-histamine, calcium. But I eat a lot of bananas, that should cover my C requirements (3+ lb/week).

Legumes, I eat sporadically. Made a small pot of black beans a few days ago, cooked up a pound of pinto beans a couple weeks ago.

 

[deadlyapp]

If you're worried about environmental concerns and have iron deficiency then simply supplementing iron or finding other iron rich sources would suit your needs fine. I don't think it's a hard solution.

You may get bored though of further restricting your diet if you don't enjoy chicken/turkey/fish/lamb and end up stuck with pork (hopefully lean)

 

[whm1974]

If you're worried about environmental concerns and have iron deficiency then simply supplementing iron or finding other iron rich sources would suit your needs fine. I don't think it's a hard solution.

You may get bored though of further restricting your diet if you don't enjoy chicken/turkey/fish/lamb and end up stuck with pork (hopefully lean)

I eaten lamb several times and it sure tastes strange.

 

[Muse]

If you're worried about environmental concerns and have iron deficiency then simply supplementing iron or finding other iron rich sources would suit your needs fine. I don't think it's a hard solution.

You may get bored though of further restricting your diet if you don't enjoy chicken/turkey/fish/lamb and end up stuck with pork (hopefully lean)

The pork I eat is real cheap (I think) pork roasts from Costco. They're packed a 4x 2lb hunks and they are real lean to begin with and I slice off any fat I see on the outside, which isn't much. I used one to make DIY pork breakfast sausage last week, about the 3rd time I've done this. I have an attachment to my Oster blender that I use exclusively to grind meat. I extruded the sausage with a home made extruder (you can see Youtube videos that are impressive) and froze in bags. Had some for dinner tonight, I do that once a week with home fries.

Chicken, I have some in the freezer but almost never make chicken at home. Turkey, well, I have a fabulous recipe for turkey meatballs that I make once in a while. Lamb? I like it buy never buy it. Fish, just about never anymore except for once every 2 months or so I open a can of tuna and make tuna salad for a couple sandwiches over 2 days.

My doctor wants me to cut back on lactose, suspects I have developed an intolerance, so I'm scrambling some to try to make sure I get enough protein now.

 

[TheVrolok]

There is absolutely no medical need to eat red meat. Full stop. In fact, the more we learn, the more unhealthy we realize red meat is. Not to mention the horrible environmental effect it has.. But that's an entirely different forum.

I find it hard to believe you were iron deficient from insufficient dietary habits unless you had a really odd diet. I suspect either you were never really iron deficient, or it was for another reason.

 

[Muse]

There is absolutely no medical need to eat red meat. Full stop. In fact, the more we learn, the more unhealthy we realize red meat is. Not to mention the horrible environmental effect it has.. But that's an entirely different forum.

I find it hard to believe you were iron deficient from insufficient dietary habits unless you had a really odd diet. I suspect either you were never really iron deficient, or it was for another reason.

It was a routine blood test. Subsequent blood tests over the next several years had me borderline anemic. I'm OK now, but I think in the low range of normal.

I'll experiment with reducing my red meat consumption. I think I am eating less than the average person right now. I haven't eaten a steak for many years. For me, a 5 ounce portion is a much as I consume at once. And I don't do that daily, at most 3x/week I'd guess.

 

[deadlyapp]

It was a routine blood test. Subsequent blood tests over the next several years had me borderline anemic. I'm OK now, but I think in the low range of normal.

I'll experiment with reducing my red meat consumption. I think I am eating less than the average person right now. I haven't eaten a steak for many years. For me, a 5 ounce portion is a much as I consume at once. And I don't do that daily, at most 3x/week I'd guess.

That's a lot of red meat generally, even if it's lower than the "average" person.

On a daily basis, I generally get 20% of my protein from egg whites, 60% from lean white meats (turkey, chicken, pork tenderloin), and 20% from milk sources (whey, yogurt, etc). I'll occasionally mix in whole eggs or fattier meats (94-97% fat free beef, fatty fish) but never more than one meal a day, 4oz, and generally never more than once a month (I eat the same foods throughout a week).

If you're eating the cheaper, fattier red meats (eg 80% ground beef or sirloin) then you're really doing yourself a disservice.

I'm trying to figure out what you expect to gain from this thread. Are you trying to find out ways to get more protein while removing red meat from your diet? How much protein are you consuming now? What type of fitness/activity habits do you have that produce a need for higher protein levels?

If you're low activity levels, don't do significant resistance workouts, then there really isn't a huge need for astronomical protein levels. A half of gram of protein per pound of body weight is more than enough. The remainder of your calories should come from healthy fats and carbs.

 

[mindless1]

Take an iron suppliment, ferrous salts (ferrous fumarate, ferrous sulfate, and ferrous gluconate) are the best absorbed and do not "need" an acid (whether ascorbic or some other) but may benefit from one if you have low stomach acid. Non-heme iron greatly benefits from an acid such as ascorbic, and limiting ingestion of acid-taxing minerals like calcium (rich food) and beverages like coffee or tea.

You might also want to increase your folic acid consumption, though certain foods high in iron like dark leafy greens, or moderate like legumes, should be enough folic acid, or eat a bowl of cereal that's 100% fortified.

Lowering your red meat consumption, sure there are good reasons to do that, but it's counterproductive to have it introduced into this topic about anemia since it will directly work against getting enough iron. While a healthy person with good iron levels doesn't "need" red meat, giving suggestions that are the opposite of the topic seems very silly, it is not a generic "what's the best life long diet", topic.

I would leave red meat consumption alone for the time being, eat more dark leafy greens, take an iron suppliment, maintain that for several weeks then get your iron level checked. If it ends up well within a good range, then reduce your red meat consumption. At 40lb-60lb /year it is not all that high if you mean pre-cooked weight and if fatty ground beef, you drain the fat off rather than making chunks (meatloaf, etc) that hold in the fat.

 

[Muse]

If you're eating the cheaper, fattier red meats (eg 80% ground beef or sirloin) then you're really doing yourself a disservice.

I always pick out the leanest looking package of probably top sirloin from either Costco or Safeway, usually Costco. Then I cut off all peripheral fat. There's some fat, obviously, but I won't touch the fattier cuts of beef, and I notice that the higher priced beef (e.g. New York Steak, Fillet M.) have much more fat marbeling than I see in the cuts I pick out. I think maybe flank steak is leaner and I used to get that sometimes, but haven't for a few years.

 

[TheVrolok]

Take an iron suppliment, ferrous salts (ferrous fumarate, ferrous sulfate, and ferrous gluconate) are the best absorbed and do not "need" an acid (whether ascorbic or some other) but may benefit from one if you have low stomach acid. Non-heme iron greatly benefits from an acid such as ascorbic, and limiting ingestion of acid-taxing minerals like calcium (rich food) and beverages like coffee or tea.

You might also want to increase your folic acid consumption, though certain foods high in iron like dark leafy greens, or moderate like legumes, should be enough folic acid, or eat a bowl of cereal that's 100% fortified.

Lowering your red meat consumption, sure there are good reasons to do that, but it's counterproductive to have it introduced into this topic about anemia since it will directly work against getting enough iron. While a healthy person with good iron levels doesn't "need" red meat, giving suggestions that are the opposite of the topic seems very silly, it is not a generic "what's the best life long diet", topic.

I would leave red meat consumption alone for the time being, eat more dark leafy greens, take an iron suppliment, maintain that for several weeks then get your iron level checked. If it ends up well within a good range, then reduce your red meat consumption. At 40lb-60lb /year it is not all that high if you mean pre-cooked weight and if fatty ground beef, you drain the fat off rather than making chunks (meatloaf, etc) that hold in the fat.

Why would you recommend taking supplementation? Odd recommendation without deficiency.

 

[mindless1]

Why would you recommend taking supplementation? Odd recommendation without deficiency.

Seriously?

Quote "I'm now with Kaiser Permanente and I'm no longer anemic, although I think I'm in the low area of the acceptable range for anemia pointers (hemoglobin, etc.)"

 

[TheVrolok]

Seriously?

Quote "I'm now with Kaiser Permanente and I'm no longer anemic, although I think I'm in the low area of the acceptable range for anemia pointers (hemoglobin, etc.)"

He just said he has a normal hemoglobin and no objective evidence of iron deficiency. What are you on about?

 

[mindless1]

He just said he has a normal hemoglobin and no objective evidence of iron deficiency. What are you on about?

Are you reading the posts or just making up things as you go along?

There was no statement of normal hemoglobin. There was the statement "I think I'm in the low area of the acceptable range for anemia pointers (hemoglobin, etc)".

Over 15 years ago, after a blood test, my doctor recommended I eat more red meat. She may have included green leafy vegetables, that would make sense. I had come in borderline anemic (i.e. slightly anemic). I was pretty active and still am.

This is clearly a suggestion to eat more iron rich foods, by a doctor not an internet-know-it-all, while my prior quote indicates there is still a borderline anemic condition, and you in this topic trying to pursuade against red meat, which is the exact opposite of the solution to the topic UNLESS another way to add more iron is found.

You are very irresponsible pushing some no-meat agenda on a borderline anemic person then trying to suggest they shouldn't take an iron suppliment.

Hate people much? You are giving the exact opposite of good advice for the topic of this thread. Your agenda is illogical and this is typical of people with impaired mental function from dietary deficiencies. You should consider eating red meat. 😉

 

[TheVrolok]

Are you reading the posts or just making up things as you go along?

There was no statement of normal hemoglobin. There was the statement "I think I'm in the low area of the acceptable range for anemia pointers (hemoglobin, etc)".

Do you honestly think "acceptable range" is an abnormal value? I think it's a safe bet to make that "acceptable range" is synonymous with "normal range."

This is clearly a suggestion to eat more iron rich foods, by a doctor not an internet-know-it-all, while my prior quote indicates there is still a borderline anemic condition, and you in this topic tyriing to pursuade against red meat, which is the exact opposite of the solution to the topic UNLESS another way to add more iron is found.

You are very irresponsible pushing some no-meat agenda on a borderline anemic person then trying to suggest they shouldn't take an iron suppliment.

Hate people much? You are giving the exact opposite of good advice for the topic of this thread. Your agenda is illogical and this is typical of people with impaired mental function. You should consider eating red meat. 😉

By matter of fact, I'm actually both an Internet-know-it-all AND doctor.

Red meat is not a solution to iron deficiency anemia. Please, find me a guideline or recommendation from an actual scientific body recommending/dosing red meat as treatment for IDA.

I don't have a "no-meat" agenda. I eat meat all the time, I love a good filet or burger. That said, red meat is simply not a healthful food (completely ignoring the ecological impact which is totally fine for this discussion).

With regard to responsibility, I only post in this subforum occasionally, and only when I see absurd things being passed off as legitimate medical advice.

Quite frankly, the vast majority of what you've written in this thread is pretty ignorant and an impressive example of Dunning-Kruger. Of course, I don't expect you to realize that.

 

[mindless1]

^ You are irrational and counterproductive in this topic. I don't even think you are a doctor with any training in this area.

Please, find me a guideline or recommendation from an actual scientific body recommending/dosing red meat as treatment for IDA.

ALL of them, literally, mention the issue of diet including meat, dark leafy greens, and/or iron suppliments. Again I don't know how you can make this stuff up and pretend you're serious.

If this were instead a topic about "how can I eliminate red meat and keep my IDA in check"... then you're doubly wrong to dismiss supplements.

Dunning-Kruger? You can't even get the most simple of scientifically proven evidence right.

Here is a level 100 primer on iron and anemia. Dispel your delusions. Seek psychiatric help, then you can progress to Anemia 101, remembering that the doctor who saw the OP, did a blood test too.

Iron supplement (oral route, parenteral route)

www.mayoclinic.org

[unsubscribed, there's nothing new to cover here]

 

[TheVrolok]

^ You are irrational and counterproductive in this topic. I don't even think you are a doctor with any training in this area.



ALL of them, literally, mention the issue of diet including meat, dark leafy greens, and/or iron suppliments. Again I don't know how you can make this stuff up and pretend you're serious.

If this were instead a topic about "how can I eliminate red meat and keep my IDA in check"... then you're doubly wrong to dismiss supplements.

Dunning-Kruger? You can't even get the most simple of scientifically proven evidence right.

Here is a level 100 primer on iron and anemia. Dispel your delusions. Seek psychiatric help, then you can progress to Anemia 101, remembering that the doctor who saw the OP, did a blood test too.

Iron supplement (oral route, parenteral route)

www.mayoclinic.org

[unsubscribed, there's nothing new to cover here]

lol, your username is rather apropos. Do you honestly believe what you linked is a guideline? I can continue to wait for a guideline on the use of red meat as management for IDA. I'll be waiting indefinitely, but that's fine. Irrational and counterproductive? A level 100 primer? Anemia 101? LOL. You're the epitome of Dunning-Kruger, beyond that, you're nonsensical. If I recall, you post in P&N, too, don't you? I'm starting to recall your posting style.

 

[Muse]

Are you reading the posts or just making up things as you go along?

There was no statement of normal hemoglobin. There was the statement "I think I'm in the low area of the acceptable range for anemia pointers (hemoglobin, etc)".



This is clearly a suggestion to eat more iron rich foods, by a doctor not an internet-know-it-all, while my prior quote indicates there is still a borderline anemic condition, and you in this topic trying to pursuade against red meat, which is the exact opposite of the solution to the topic UNLESS another way to add more iron is found.

You are very irresponsible pushing some no-meat agenda on a borderline anemic person then trying to suggest they shouldn't take an iron suppliment.

Hate people much? You are giving the exact opposite of good advice for the topic of this thread. Your agenda is illogical and this is typical of people with impaired mental function from dietary deficiencies. You should consider eating red meat. 😉

Yeah, sounds like I'm the subject of this controversy. I was right at the lower border for anemia/non-anemia around 2002 or so. I'm "acceptable" now, they tell me, but still not by much IIRC. So, I think about it. Actually, I was complaining to my HMO over the last couple months or so about feeling dizzy, light headed, out of breath easier than I thought I should be (walking a hilly golf course), in particular after climbing a small hill, e.g. 20 feet or so. They had me take an EKG, which I passed, and they suggested I take a stress test EKG if I was still concerned. After a few weeks I had that and they said I was fine. This was about 3 weeks ago.

I'm eating some beef, not a lot, I never eat more than say 5oz at a single meal, and those are just occasional. I ate an ounce or two of beef today in a hearty stew I made over the weekend, prepared especially for "leftovers," i.e. that quick meal via refrigerator & microwave. It's 90+% vegatables with some split peas and barley and seasoning.

 

[Muse]

I eaten lamb several times and it sure tastes strange.

I always enjoyed lamb chops when my mother made them. Lamb curry at an Indian restaurant is something I've enjoyed.

 

[whm1974]

I always enjoyed lamb chops when my mother made them. Lamb curry at an Indian restaurant is something I've enjoyed.

Lamb curry while it does tastes strange to me I do enjoy eating the dish. I thing the strange taste of lamb is likely due to me not eating the meat on a regular bases, especially when I was a kid.

 

[Muse]

Lamb curry while it does tastes strange to me I do enjoy eating the dish. I thing the strange taste of lamb is likely due to me not eating the meat on a regular bases, especially when I was a kid.

I haven't eaten lamb for a few years, I think. However my mother did broil us lamb chops not infrequently. I don't think I would find it strange to eat lamb now. It's different from beef, pork and veal. I would not deem it strange, however.

 

[mike8675309]

Sounds like you may have a genetic iron absorption issue. You should make sure you are eating foods high in Vitamin C whenever you eat something high in Iron to help with absorption. Not all dead cow parts are high in iron.
Have you had your B-12 checked? Low B-12 can lead to iron absorption issues. People can have problems with processing dietary B-12, particularly as they age.
Of course, Zinc and Folate also play a role in iron absorption as can any medications you may be taking.
If you are tired of trying to eat red meat (and interested more in the environment) you can try eating foods like:

• Blackstrap molasses
• Green leafy vegetables
• Dried beans, such as black and kidney beans, and lentils

All are higher in iron, and when combined with Vitamin C should give you all the Iron you need. If you still struggle, you may have a metabolic issue with iron. Adding a supplement might help.

Iron Deficiency Anemia | Iron Disorders Institute

www.irondisorders.org