Diesel AWD car recommendation?

[NetWareHead]

Shawn, can you get the hell put of this thread and start your own? I started this thread for my own purposes bc Im going to be car shopping and instead you come in here and spout ignorance and BS, alienating the helpful posters whose advice I am seeking.

I want to garner useful information (and there is plenty of good information in the beginning until you derailed it) from this thread, not read through this mountain of shit. If you want to bash diesels and compare them to gasoline, then start your own god damn thread and not ruin mine (already too late I feel). Thank you!

 

[Demo24]

Unfortunately, as far as I know, Audi does not make a TDI DSG quattro A3 anywhere. Thus the likely hood of it coming to the states in that configuration is practically null. Rather unlikely they would bring one over with a manual. So unfortunately unless Audi sticks it in an A4 or someone else does, I wouldn't hold much hope for an AWD diesel car here anytime soon. A shame really.

 

[ShawnD1]

Shawn, can you get the hell put of this thread and start your own? I started this thread for my own purposes bc Im going to be car shopping and instead you come in here and spout ignorance and BS, alienating the helpful posters whose advice I am seeking.

You asked about diesel cars and I gave you fair warning that they get better gas mileage while their performance is worse. That one guy in this thread was proud of his 250lb-ft diesel engine until I posted an article by motortrend where a gas engine with half as much torque has better acceleration. You need to know all of the facts before you blow a bunch of money on something like a car.

Do you want people like me to warn you up front that diesel typically has less power, or do you want to find that out after you've dropped $25k on it?

 

[ShawnD1]

Hey I was looking at the VW website and it turns out dividebyzero didn't need to make a fool of himself to proove a point. VW actually shows the 0-60 times for their cars

http://www.vw.com/en/models/golf/fe...or.html#/tab=ccb8c80e7045bff5773761dfa389e296
VW Golf gasoline - 8.1 seconds
VW Golf diesel - 8.6 seconds

http://www.vw.com/en/models/jetta/f...di.html#/tab=29300aaa88dd851eaaadec72ba88dbdd
VW Jetta gasoline - 8.2 seconds
VW Jetta diesel - 8.7 seconds

The diesel jetta has 33% more torque while the gasoline jetta has 21% more horsepower. Which goes faster? You guessed it, gasoline goes faster!

This whole argument is really my fault. Instead of showing you guys mathematical reasons for why the gas is more powerful or why it accelerates faster, I could have just looked at VW's website and given you raw numbers. That would have saved so much time and effort.

 

[NetWareHead]

You asked about diesel cars and I gave you fair warning that they get better gas mileage while their performance is worse. That one guy in this thread was proud of his 250lb-ft diesel engine until I posted an article by motortrend where a gas engine with half as much torque has better acceleration. You need to know all of the facts before you blow a bunch of money on something like a car.

Do you want people like me to warn you up front that diesel typically has less power, or do you want to find that out after you've dropped $25k on it?

First off, I'm not going to get into this with you about which car is faster or at what RPM point, whose power is more useful or wasteful. Clearly you need to drive a diesel equipped car. Suggest you make friends with someone with a Jetta Tdi so you can see the light.

Secondly, I dont care about performance when I'm driving a diesel Jetta. I got a diesel for fuel economy reasons rather than for burning rubber. What you don't understand about the diesel is that all of its torque is available at idle and doesn't need to be revved to a high RPM like a gas engine. I can shift each gear at 1500 rpm all the way up to 6th gear and not feel like I am lugging the engine. I can pass someone going uphill and never have to downshift from 6th gear. This is what makes a diesel a great street engine and great for all around driving. .

Third, I did not ask "about" diesel cars. I already have a diesel car and know how they drive and am quite happy with it. I asked about a diesel engine availability in a 4WD platform and that's why this thread was created. Have you even read my first post? You're giving advice that I didn't solicit and have contributed absolutely nothing to this thread except made yourself look like a fool and become the target of everyone's ridicule.

 

[ShawnD1]

What you don't understand about the diesel is that all of its torque is available at idle and doesn't need to be revved to a high RPM like a gas engine. I can shift each gear at 1500 rpm all the way up to 6th gear and not feel like I am lugging the engine.

???
Diesels always feel like they are being lugged. The vehicle shakes like a bitch because of the engine speed. The weird shaky feeling of a diesel vehicle is one of the more common complaints about diesels.

 

[NetWareHead]

???
Diesels always feel like they are being lugged. The vehicle shakes like a bitch because of the engine speed. The weird shaky feeling of a diesel vehicle is one of the more common complaints about diesels.

Lugging an engine means you are running it at too low of an rpm. Usually prior to stalling, you feel the engine lugging under too great of a load and vibration is greatly increased.

TDI engines are vastly different than other diesel engines you are probably accustomed to in trucks which have that characteristic diesel engine noise and vibration. Most people that ride in my car don't even know it is a diesel until I tell them. TDIs use direct injection and burn all of their fuel in the combustion chamber rather than using a pre-combustion chamber like older diesels . Go take a test drive of a TDI and you will see what I and everyone has been telling you.

 

[DivideBYZero]

You asked about diesel cars and I gave you fair warning that they get better gas mileage while their performance is worse. That one guy in this thread was proud of his 250lb-ft diesel engine until I posted an article by motortrend where a gas engine with half as much torque has better acceleration. You need to know all of the facts before you blow a bunch of money on something like a car.

Do you want people like me to warn you up front that diesel typically has less power, or do you want to find that out after you've dropped $25k on it?

Nobody should take your advice as it's stupid and based upon not one thread of fact or knowledge.

My point is this; if you have a choice of a 180HP gas engine or a 180HP diesel, you had better get the diesel as it will be a much better car to drive.

You just keep posting that a more powerful car is faster. Did anyone say it wasn't? It are you just clueless? Hey guess what, a Veyron is faster than a Mustang. But to return to your beloved Civic consider this; to liberate it's pathetic 130tq, you need to wind it up to 6100 rpm. To liberate way much more torque I just have to run up to... 1200 rpm. Driveability is key. I have maximum tq available at over 80% of my rev band, the civic much less. Get caught out of the tq band on the civic and your going no where. That's passing, merging and where thrust matters, not just sprinting to sixty, which has always been a questionable way to measure performance.

 

[LTC8K6]

???
Diesels always feel like they are being lugged. The vehicle shakes like a bitch because of the engine speed. The weird shaky feeling of a diesel vehicle is one of the more common complaints about diesels.

We are talking about modern diesels, not those late 70's early 80's GM V8 diesels...

 

[chucky2]

Jesus, this thread nosedived...

Shawn: If you head on over to the UK Ford website, and check out say the Focus, they have performance data other than just 0-62 times, such as 30-50, 50-70, something like that. Diesel yes will not always been quicker from 0-60 in a sprint, but once up to about any real speed, is going to be much more drivable without hammering the shit out of it to make the power. So you get better performance, while using way less gas. If you want to equal the performance of the diesel in the gasser, you can do that, even exceed it, but you'll be sacrificing lots of fuel to do so, because you'll have to rev the sh1t out of it (torque is power, horsepower is how fast you make the torque).

For basically all normal driving, diesel is better.

Chuck

 

[PlasmaBomb]

Yup the reason why people like diesels is their drivability...

Cruising along at 2000rpm the 2.0L TDI produces 100 BHP at WOT, the 2.5L NA petrol only produces 50 BHP at WOT...

(sorry the graphs aren't exact, we don't have the 2.5L in the UK, so I chose the "best" 2.5L dyno chart I could find which starts at 2500 rpm).

(Also please note that the units are different... and why the hell are APR using ft/lb instead of ft.lbf??)

 

[DivideBYZero]

(Also please note that the units are different... and why the hell are APR using ft/lb instead of ft.lbf??)

In the UK the notation for foot pound is ft/lb.

 

[skyking]

It really sucks that Audi/VW have not imported a small AWD TDI. We'd be all over that.
We drove a Ford Mondeo rental in the UK, and of course I opted for the 6 speed diesel. That thing rocked. I drove it all over Northern UK for 4 days and I think I fueled it twice.

 

[PlasmaBomb]

In the UK the notation for foot pound is ft/lb.

ummm...

<---------- location

typically it's ft-lb, which is an entirely different unit to ft/lb (some people are doing math wrong!!)

Very quick conversion to the same axis/units... (apologies for any errors!)

Got to run!!

 

[Anubis]

Hey I was looking at the VW website and it turns out dividebyzero didn't need to make a fool of himself to proove a point. VW actually shows the 0-60 times for their cars

http://www.vw.com/en/models/golf/features_and_specs.s10_trimlevel_comparison.suffix.html/2011_golf~2F2_5l_4-door/model_0=6-speed_automatic_transmission/tab=features_~2Fexterior/trimlevel_1=2011_golf~2Ftdi_4-door.html#/tab=ccb8c80e7045bff5773761dfa389e296
VW Golf gasoline - 8.1 seconds
VW Golf diesel - 8.6 seconds

http://www.vw.com/en/models/jetta/features_and_specs.s10_trimlevel_comparison.suffix.html/2011_jetta~2Fsel/model_0=5-speed_manual_transmission/tab=features_~2Fexterior/trimlevel_1=2011_jetta~2Ftdi.html#/tab=29300aaa88dd851eaaadec72ba88dbdd
VW Jetta gasoline - 8.2 seconds
VW Jetta diesel - 8.7 seconds

The diesel jetta has 33% more torque while the gasoline jetta has 21% more horsepower. Which goes faster? You guessed it, gasoline goes faster!

This whole argument is really my fault. Instead of showing you guys mathematical reasons for why the gas is more powerful or why it accelerates faster, I could have just looked at VW's website and given you raw numbers. That would have saved so much time and effort.

most people really couldn't care less about how fast a car is. all cars made today are fast enough even if they are actually slow

 

[LTC8K6]

most people really couldn't care less about how fast a car is. all cars made today are fast enough even if they are actually slow

Given the margins of error, few people could tell the difference in acceleration, imo.

Unless you were told, you probably could not guess which was faster by the seat of your pants. The diesel might even feel faster with the torque.

 

[exar333]

most people really couldn't care less about how fast a car is. all cars made today are fast enough even if they are actually slow

I disagree. Most people buy autos, and a diesel is great for this type of application. More linear acceleration and less down-shifting. It really drives around town like a much more powerful gasoline engine.

 

[JulesMaximus]

You asked about diesel cars and I gave you fair warning that they get better gas mileage while their performance is worse. That one guy in this thread was proud of his 250lb-ft diesel engine until I posted an article by motortrend where a gas engine with half as much torque has better acceleration. You need to know all of the facts before you blow a bunch of money on something like a car.

Do you want people like me to warn you up front that diesel typically has less power, or do you want to find that out after you've dropped $25k on it?

He already owns a diesel you retard. And even if he didn't I'm sure he'd test drive any car before buying it.

 

[exar333]

???
Diesels always feel like they are being lugged. The vehicle shakes like a bitch because of the engine speed. The weird shaky feeling of a diesel vehicle is one of the more common complaints about diesels.

Have you driven a car before?

 

[LTC8K6]

Have you driven a car before?

If it was a diesel, it needed to be repaired...

 

[DivideBYZero]

He already owns a diesel you retard. And even if he didn't I'm sure he'd test drive any car before buying it.

He also quoted the one and only acceleration metric that the Civic excels at, rather than a more revealing 50-70 test.


50-70 mph :

Civic Si = 11.5 seconds
BMW 120d (50-75) = 8.0 seconds or 6.4 seconds if you drop to 4th.

Who's getting ripped off? :awe:

 

[Howard]

He also quoted the one and only acceleration metric that the Civic excels at, rather than a more revealing 50-70 test.


50-70 mph :

Civic Si = 11.5 seconds
BMW 120d (50-75) = 8.0 seconds or 6.4 seconds if you drop to 4th.

Who's getting ripped off? :awe:

obviously test was done without vtec

 

[ShawnD1]

He also quoted the one and only acceleration metric that the Civic excels at, rather than a more revealing 50-70 test.


50-70 mph :

Civic Si = 11.5 seconds
BMW 120d (50-75) = 8.0 seconds or 6.4 seconds if you drop to 4th.

Who's getting ripped off? :awe:

I don't mind you calling me names or saying silly things but can you at least stop lying? It degrades the integrity of this forum.

http://www.car-videos.net/performance/speed.asp?Speed1=50&Speed2=70
2000 Honda Civic Si 50-70 in 4.46 seconds
2003 Honda Civic Si 50-70 in 4.70 seconds


Let's try a video. Maybe someone has posted this on youtube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-B2WECS2m4&feature=related
hits 50mph at 10 seconds in
hits 70mph at 14 seconds
50-70 in ~4-5 seconds

Just admit you got ripped off and I'll stop bugging you.

 

[DivideBYZero]

I don't mind you calling me names or saying silly things but can you at least stop lying? It degrades the integrity of this forum.

http://www.car-videos.net/performance/speed.asp?Speed1=50&Speed2=70
2000 Honda Civic Si 50-70 in 4.46 seconds
2003 Honda Civic Si 50-70 in 4.70 seconds


Let's try a video. Maybe someone has posted this on youtube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-B2WECS2m4&feature=related
hits 50mph at 10 seconds in
hits 70mph at 14 seconds
50-70 in ~4-5 seconds

Just admit you got ripped off and I'll stop bugging you.

Are those in top gear? Mine are. You lose again! :awe:

 

[GoSharks]

I don't mind you calling me names or saying silly things but can you at least stop lying? It degrades the integrity of this forum.

http://www.car-videos.net/performance/speed.asp?Speed1=50&Speed2=70
2000 Honda Civic Si 50-70 in 4.46 seconds
2003 Honda Civic Si 50-70 in 4.70 seconds


Let's try a video. Maybe someone has posted this on youtube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-B2WECS2m4&feature=related
hits 50mph at 10 seconds in
hits 70mph at 14 seconds
50-70 in ~4-5 seconds

Just admit you got ripped off and I'll stop bugging you.

You're a dumbass.

0-50-70 does not equal 50-50-70.