Diesel AWD car recommendation?

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exar333

Diamond Member
Feb 7, 2004
8,518
8
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Not in uptown, I see blizzaks getting stuck with FWD constantly....I walk passed them during the last 2/3 blizzards in Pirelli P6's (mediocre all seasons).


I was in the same boat OP ... loved the TDI, but FWD sucks in Minnesota...went with my B7 Audi 2.0T 6MT...can't live without AWD.

I'd love to see the 3.0TDI or diesel hybrid of some sort..AWD of course.

When I first got in an AWD car, there was no way I was going back to FWD..summer/winter, it just feels so much better when driving.

EDIT : I also own a 06 4.7L grand cherokee ... 4x4/AWD with all seasons tires, and that thing kicks ass too. 2 sundays ago I drove 50~ miles to Afton to go snowboarding, had no issues outside of visibility.

I see this when driving my fiance's FWD Jetta with snow tires; bad drivers are bad drivers. People all winter have gotten stuck in 4x4 or AWD vehicles and I have breezed by them without an issue. Poor drivers will get stuck in superior vehicles over a good driver in sub-optimal all the time. I am not saying it doesn't help to have AWD, but 4 spinning tires with all-seasons doesn't help you all that much...
 

InflatableBuddha

Diamond Member
Jul 5, 2007
7,416
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Not really, I'd much rather be driving a FWD car with winter tires than an AWD car with all-seasons.

I'm in Quebec, and before they passed the law obligating people to have winter tires, most of the cars you'd see in the ditch were 4WD trucks and jeeps with all-season tires.

Now AWD with winters, that would be the best.

This.
 

JulesMaximus

No Lifer
Jul 3, 2003
74,534
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I see this when driving my fiance's FWD Jetta with snow tires; bad drivers are bad drivers. People all winter have gotten stuck in 4x4 or AWD vehicles and I have breezed by them without an issue. Poor drivers will get stuck in superior vehicles over a good driver in sub-optimal all the time. I am not saying it doesn't help to have AWD, but 4 spinning tires with all-seasons doesn't help you all that much...

One of the worst cars ever in the snow is the Impreza WRX-STi. With its sticky summer tires it is absolutely worthless in the snow. That car really shouldn't be driven with the OEM summer tires in the winter.
 

InflatableBuddha

Diamond Member
Jul 5, 2007
7,416
1
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One of the worst cars ever in the snow is the Impreza WRX-STi. With its sticky summer tires it is absolutely worthless in the snow. That car really shouldn't be driven with the OEM summer tires in the winter.

Duh. Summer tires are basically useless in snow, regardless of the vehicle. If I owned an STi or another performance vehicle which benefits from summer tires, I would definitely have a set of winter tires too.
 

JCH13

Diamond Member
Sep 14, 2010
4,981
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Duh. Summer tires are basically useless in snow, regardless of the vehicle. If I owned an STi or another performance vehicle which benefits from summer tires, I would definitely have a set of winter tires too.

This X 1,000

The CAR isn't to blame, the TIRES are. Those summer tires are probably out of temperature spec during the winter, so even on dry roads they'll not have as much traction as they're supposed to have.
 

Howard

Lifer
Oct 14, 1999
47,982
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This all started because of your assumptions diesels suck because they generally have less hp. You've obviously never driven a diesel and can't understand that an engine doesn't need to be way up in the rev band to make significant power. Your calculations are wrong because a)you aren't figuring in the proper rpm for the diesel vs gas comparisons b)you aren't factoring in gear ratios.
With ideal gearing, whichever motor produces more power will accelerate its load faster. Fact.
 

JulesMaximus

No Lifer
Jul 3, 2003
74,534
911
126
Wait, I get it...you were being funny like Shawn! :D

Except my post was accurate...and I wanted to see if he would bite being that I mentioned his holy grail of winter automobiles. :awe:

Some say, he once blew a total stranger just to get a ride in an Impreza automatic...all we know is he's called Corollaboy.
 

ViviTheMage

Lifer
Dec 12, 2002
36,189
87
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madgenius.com
I see this when driving my fiance's FWD Jetta with snow tires; bad drivers are bad drivers. People all winter have gotten stuck in 4x4 or AWD vehicles and I have breezed by them without an issue. Poor drivers will get stuck in superior vehicles over a good driver in sub-optimal all the time. I am not saying it doesn't help to have AWD, but 4 spinning tires with all-seasons doesn't help you all that much...

Well of course, bad drivers are the exception ... but damn does AWD make life 100x easier in snow, and more 'feel' in the summer!
 

DivideBYZero

Lifer
May 18, 2001
24,117
2
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With ideal gearing, whichever motor produces more power will accelerate its load faster. Fact.

Torque is what does the actual work, but horsepower
is how FAST we we do the work. And acceleration depends on the engine's ability to generate torque at more than just one rpm. The fatter
the torque curve is (no matter how small the max torque value), the faster
you can accelerate because the more rpms you have to work with, the
higher the gear ratios and thus the higher your torque at the ground.
You maximize torque to the ground through gearing keeping the engine in the rpm range where the engine generates the most ground speed for a given torque value.

http://www.houseofthud.com/cartech/torqueversushorsepower.htm
 

PlasmaBomb

Lifer
Nov 19, 2004
11,636
2
81
Correct me if I'm wrong, but you've not driven a modern diesel. I have one. It has 180hp and 260ft/lb of torque (which matters). It does 142Mph at the top end and gets to 60Mph in 7.2 seconds. Pretty peppy for a 2 litre motor.

But yeah, they're all slow and shit. Or you could actually drive one rather than spouting horseshit calculations that 'prove' you weak-ass point.

It will still be beaten to 60 by a car that does 0 - 60 in 5.4 seconds... (especially if driven by the Stig).
 

ShawnD1

Lifer
May 24, 2003
15,987
2
81
Correct me if I'm wrong, but you've not driven a modern diesel. I have one. It has 180hp and 260ft/lb of torque (which matters). It does 142Mph at the top end and gets to 60Mph in 7.2 seconds. Pretty peppy for a 2 litre motor.

But yeah, they're all slow and shit. Or you could actually drive one rather than spouting horseshit calculations that 'prove' you weak-ass point.
lol. So much fail in one post, I can hardly believe my eyes!

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests...mpact_car_comparison/2009_honda_civic_si.html
Torque is virtually non-existent, just 139 pound-feet -- and you have to wind out the engine to 6100 rpm to get it. Off the line and around town, the Civic Si feels asleep. Yes, the naturally aspirated engine (the only one in this test) is a marvel, delivering nearly 100 horsepower per liter at 7800 rpm, but at 197 ponies the Civic Si is next-to-last on the group's power list. Zero to 60 mph performance -- 6.6 seconds

So your car has TWICE as much torque as this little piece of shit Honda Civic and yet your car is SLOWER. You should go back to the dealership and demand a refund. They ripped you off good.
 

DivideBYZero

Lifer
May 18, 2001
24,117
2
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lol. So much fail in one post, I can hardly believe my eyes!

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests...mpact_car_comparison/2009_honda_civic_si.html


So your car has TWICE as much torque as this little piece of shit Honda Civic and yet your car is SLOWER. You should go back to the dealership and demand a refund. They ripped you off good.

My god, you're an idiot. How does that prove your point? Oh it doesn't, you're just reaching. The Civic has 10% more power and is only 8.5% faster to 60mph. Why not pick a 180hp gas engine as a comparison?

Does the Civic weigh the same as a 120d? Does it have the same power output? No to both, so you're talking crap again and opened the door to yet more ownage in this thread, which you have single handedly destroyed for the OP.

All you're doing is proving how little you understand motive power.
 

Demo24

Diamond Member
Aug 5, 2004
8,356
9
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What I fail to understand is why he is bashing diesel in here hard, but then praised it highly in the gas thread in OT?
 

ShawnD1

Lifer
May 24, 2003
15,987
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My god, you're an idiot. How does that prove your point? Oh it doesn't, you're just reaching. The Civic has 10% more power and is only 8.5% faster to 60mph. Why not pick a 180hp gas engine as a comparison?
Do you dieselheads ever bother to learn how to read or make coherent arguments? In a thread about diesel cars I pointed out how the diesel version of the Golf is the most expensive one even though it has the worst performance because it has about 20% less horsepower. You guys deflected this tidbit of reality by saying "Oh, but it has more torque." I then go on to show you that a Honda Civic with literally 1/2 as much torque still pwns the shit out of your diesel car in terms of performance, so that torque number you praise so much means basically nothing when it comes to real world performance. Now you deflect again by saying "Oh, well the torque numbers don't matter, it's all in the power!"
First you say you want torque with no power, then you say you want both power and torque. Make up your god damn minds!
 

desy

Diamond Member
Jan 13, 2000
5,442
211
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Because numbers mean one thing and the seat of your pants another.
Torque gives you better response and off the line which doesn't show up in top speed or 0-60 times but as a daily driver is appreciably noticable.

Go 100 mph in a Aveo and go 100 in a Caddilac, technically you are doing the exact same thing, the experience is different. Drive a car that doesn't respond in the middle of a power band or has a narrow power band, on paper is different than reality
 
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ShawnD1

Lifer
May 24, 2003
15,987
2
81
Because numbers mean one thing and the seat of your pants another.
Torque gives you better response and off the line which doesn't show up in top speed or 0-60 times but as a daily driver is appreciably noticable.
Daily driving doesn't feel too much different in cars that have automatic transmissions, which is easily more than 90% of cars sold in NA. My car is an auto and it will go up to 4000rpm before changing gears even if I'm gently pushing on the gas. People who drive a standard might be reluctant to run the engine up to redline just to get some power out of a small gas engine, but an automatic transmission does that on a daily basis.

Whenever I ask people what they think of diesel, they always mention stuff about hills. Going up a hill is easier in a diesel.
My car is probably a special case. It sucks at maintaining a constant speed when going up a hill, so I try to accelerate hard up the hill then let off the gas when nearing the top and let gravity slow the car down to the speed limit. I've posted about this hill issue before and the AT Garage unanimously agreed that I'm the only person in the world who has that problem. Every other person on this forum with a gas car has no problem with hills, no problems with gear selection to find adequate torque, and no problems with acceleration.
 
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yh125d

Diamond Member
Dec 23, 2006
6,886
0
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I've posted about this hill issue before and the AT Garage unanimously agreed that I'm the only person in the world who has that problem. Every other person on this forum with a gas car has no problem with hills.

Its not that it doesn't happen to other people, its that it comes with the territory of low powered compacts, particularly with 4sp autos.

My brother gets it with his 2005 sentra, but thats cause it has 126hp and a 4 speed. Even on slight hills it goes to third, and on the main hills it has to go to 2nd to keep up 70mph. However it doesn't happen with my 160hp fusion, whether its the 5sp auto or manual, keeping up going 80 on the same hills
 

Demo24

Diamond Member
Aug 5, 2004
8,356
9
81
Daily driving doesn't feel too much different in cars that have automatic transmissions, which is easily more than 90% of cars sold in NA. My car is an auto and it will go up to 4000rpm before changing gears even if I'm gently pushing on the gas. People who drive a standard might be reluctant to run the engine up to redline just to get some power out of a small gas engine, but an automatic transmission does that on a daily basis.

Whenever I ask people what they think of diesel, they always mention stuff about hills. Going up a hill is easier in a diesel.
My car is probably a special case. It sucks at maintaining a constant speed when going up a hill, so I try to accelerate hard up the hill then let off the gas when nearing the top and let gravity slow the car down to the speed limit. I've posted about this hill issue before and the AT Garage unanimously agreed that I'm the only person in the world who has that problem. Every other person on this forum with a gas car has no problem with hills, no problems with gear selection to find adequate torque, and no problems with acceleration.


Because honestly either your car is seriously not operating correctly or you aren't driving it properly. I've driven slower cars than your corolla (with autos) and never had any of the host of issues you complain about. Want to drop a gear? Push the o/d(overdrive) button and it'll kick down to 3rd, or just shift it manually.

I really have no idea why you would try to accelerate up a hill, faster than you want to go, and then slow down whilst on that same hill. People that can't maintain speed like that are what drive everyone else behind them insane.
 

ShawnD1

Lifer
May 24, 2003
15,987
2
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Because honestly either your car is seriously not operating correctly or you aren't driving it properly. I've driven slower cars than your corolla (with autos) and never had any of the host of issues you complain about. Want to drop a gear? Push the o/d(overdrive) button and it'll kick down to 3rd, or just shift it manually.
I mean hills within the city where the speed limit is about 40mph, not 60mph.
Third gear doesn't have enough torque. It needs second gear, but it tries to shift out of second gear as quickly as possible. The result is that it jumps gears back and forth. The way to get around that is to hammer on the gas and accelerate up the hill so it holds second gear.
I don't feel like touching the gear selector. The whole point of paying extra money for an automatic transmission was so I had to think really hard about how to drive rather than do something as simple as tell the car which gear to use.


People that can't maintain speed like that are what drive everyone else behind them insane.
Driving a constant speed makes people even more insane. My last car was a Civic with a manual transmission. Key point is that it was a manual transmission, so it would go down hills the same speed it goes up hills. On a highway where the speed limit is about ~66mph, I'm going up the hill ~70mph. The cars behind me are all slowing down, so now I'm waaaaay ahead of everyone. On the other side of the hill, I keep it in fifth gear then just take my feet off the pedals. The small car has enough engine resistance in fifth gear that it can maintain 70mph and sometimes even slow down a little if the hill is not steep enough. The cars behind me all have automatic transmissions that disengage the torque converter lock, so they start gaining on me as we go down the hill. I'm pretty much the only person who tries to go a constant speed.
 
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yh125d

Diamond Member
Dec 23, 2006
6,886
0
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Driving a constant speed makes people even more insane. My last car was a Civic with a manual transmission. Key point is that it was a manual transmission, so it would go down hills the same speed it goes up hills. On a highway where the speed limit is about ~66mph, I'm going up the hill ~70mph. The cars behind me are all slowing down, so now I'm waaaaay ahead of everyone. On the other side of the hill, I keep it in fifth gear then just take my feet off the pedals. The small car has enough engine resistance in fifth gear that it can maintain 70mph and sometimes even slow down a little if the hill is not steep enough. The cars behind me all have automatic transmissions that disengage the torque converter lock, so they start gaining on me as we go down the hill. I'm pretty much the only person who tries to go a constant speed.

That's because they're terrible drivers. If they can't keep a consistent speed, fuck them