Did the war in Iraq end?

[Engineer]

Way to go, you posted two articles from the internet written by private citizens BEFORE the declassification of the WMD list, etc.

You are simply amazing.

Mmmm....K...Cia stats no WMD's.

Can't seem to find this fantasy declassification list you are talking about. 404...WMD's not found.

 

[Vic Vega]

Mr. Obama says that "combat" operations have ended and the last "combat" troops have left - as apposed to the other 60k troops left in Iraq who are over there with guns for some reason other than combat. D:

 

[Engineer]

Mr. Obama says that "combat" operations have ended and the last "combat" troops have left - as apposed to the other 60k troops left in Iraq who are over there with guns for some reason other than combat. D:

Should have pulled them all instead of letting them stay and train the Iraq people (useless waste of money). Useless waste of lives and money on a lie of a war.:thumbsdown:

 

[Nik]

Mr. Obama says that "combat" operations have ended and the last "combat" troops have left - as apposed to the other 60k troops left in Iraq who are over there with guns for some reason other than combat. D:

Ya, we should totally be able to train their entire country's police and military forces with, like, 5 guys.

 

[Nik]

Mmmm....K...Cia stats no WMD's.

Can't seem to find this fantasy declassification list you are talking about. 404...WMD's not found.

Do you understand the concept of classified? They're going to lie.

That article is dated 2005.

Come on, you're not that stupid. Stop playing stupid games.

 

[angminas]

We screwed around in Korea and didn't win. We screwed around in Vietnam and didn't win. We screwed around in Africa and didn't win. We're screwing around in the Middle East and haven't won.

We just don't learn. We're boxing in a street fight.

 

[Engineer]

Do you understand the concept of classified? They're going to lie.

That article is dated 2005.

Come on, you're not that stupid. Stop playing stupid games.

Whatever makes you sleep better at night I suppose.

 

[Jumpem]

We screwed around in Korea and didn't win. We screwed around in Vietnam and didn't win. We screwed around in Africa and didn't win. We're screwing around in the Middle East and haven't won.

We just don't learn. We're boxing in a street fight.

Politicians handcuffing the military. We could win any war if the kid gloves were taken off.

 

[kinev]

Links?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A33082-2004May17.html

Deadly Nerve Agent Sarin Is Found in Roadside Bomb

By William Branigin and Joby Warrick
Washington Post Staff Writers
Tuesday, May 18, 2004; Page A14

An artillery shell containing the nerve agent sarin exploded near a U.S. military convoy in Baghdad recently, releasing a small amount of the deadly chemical and slightly injuring two ordnance disposal experts, a top U.S. military official in Iraq said yesterday.

The discovery of the nerve agent, reported yesterday by a team that has been searching for weapons of mass destruction in Iraq since shortly after last year's U.S.-led invasion, marked the first time the team has found one of the types of weapons that the Bush administration cited as initial justification for toppling the government of Saddam Hussein.

But weapons experts cautioned that the shell appeared to predate the 1991 Persian Gulf War and did not necessarily mean that Hussein possessed hidden stockpiles of chemical munitions.

Army Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt, the chief U.S. military spokesman in Iraq, told reporters in Baghdad that the Iraq Survey Group confirmed yesterday that it had found a 155mm artillery shell containing sarin.

Kimmitt said the round containing the nerve agent had been rigged as a roadside bomb, or improvised explosive device, but was discovered by a U.S. military convoy.

"A detonation occurred before the IED could be rendered inoperable," Kimmitt said. "This produced a very small dispersal of agent. . . . Two explosive ordnance team members were treated for minor exposure to nerve agent as a result of the partial detonation of the round."

He said the explosion occurred "in Baghdad a couple of days ago" and that he could not be more specific.

Experts familiar with Iraq's chemical weapons program said the shell was likely a leftover from Hussein's pre-Gulf War stockpile. Iraq acknowledged producing nearly 800 tons of sarin and thousands of sarin-filled rockets and artillery shells between 1984 and 1990.

The experts, including David Kay, the Pentagon's former top weapons hunter in Iraq, said the discovery did not conclusively prove the existence of stockpiles of concealed chemical and biological weapons.

"The question is: Was it part of a cache that contains another ten or twenty of these, or is it one of a kind?" said Raymond Zilinskas, a former U.N. weapons inspector in Iraq and now director of the Chemical and Biological Weapons Nonproliferation Program at the Monterey Institute of International Studies in California. "We have no way of knowing the answer at this point."

Kay, the former leader of the Iraq Survey Group, said the shell was likely one of thousands produced for the Iran-Iraq war. While the Hussein government claimed that all leftover chemical munitions had been destroyed in accordance with U.N. Security Council requirements, it is possible that some were overlooked, hidden or stolen. Before the U.S.-led invasion last year, U.N. weapons inspectors found several empty chemical warheads for rockets and a small number of artillery shells filled with mustard gas.

"This shell may have been scavenged from one of the many munitions storage depots all over the country," said Kay. He said some munitions depots are still not adequately protected.

In Washington, Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld reacted cautiously to the news, saying he preferred to wait for further testing before commenting on the significance of the discovery.

"We have to be careful," he said during an appearance at the Heritage Foundation in Washington. [/u]"We can't say something that's inaccurate." He said investigators have to track down the origin of the artillery shell and "figure out . . . what caused that to be there in this improvised explosive device and what might it mean in terms of the risks to our forces, the risks to other people and any other implications that one might draw."

Kimmitt said the chemical shell was "an old binary type requiring the mixing of two chemical components in separate sections of the cell before the deadly agent is produced." He said the shell, which reportedly was not marked as a chemical round, was designed to work as such a weapon after being fired from an artillery piece, which would cause two chemicals to mix together in flight. But he said the mixing and dispersal of the sarin when the shell is used as a roadside bomb "is very limited."

He noted that "the former regime had declared all such rounds destroyed before the 1991 Gulf War."

It was not immediately clear who had planted the bomb or whether the perpetrators had known that the artillery shell contained a nerve agent.

Kimmitt said he believed that whoever rigged the shell as a roadside bomb did not know it contained chemicals. He said the bomb was "virtually ineffective as a chemical weapon."

Kimmitt said he would leave it to the Iraq Survey Group to determine whether the discovery of the sarin in the artillery shell represents confirmation that Hussein possessed stockpiles of chemical weapons. The 1,200-member Iraq Survey Group had not previously found any of the weapons of mass destruction that U.S. intelligence said Hussein was hiding, although the team found evidence of "program activities" related to such weapons.

Sarin, a liquid nerve agent, causes convulsions, paralysis and asphyxiation. It reportedly was used by Hussein against Iranian forces in the Iran-Iraq war in the 1980s and against Iraqi Kurdish civilians.

Kimmitt said the area in Baghdad where the artillery shell exploded was minimally affected because the binary chemicals that produce the sarin "were not allowed to mix." He said there were "very, very small traces" of the nerve agent as a result of the detonation and that personnel involved in explosive ordnance disposal went to the site and later "showed some minor indications of nerve poisoning." But the exposure was so minor that they were later released, and the area did not need to be decontaminated, he said.

"It was a weapon that we believe was stocked from the ex-regime time, and it had been thought to be an ordinary artillery shell set up to explode like an ordinary IED," Kimmitt said.

100% conclusive? No. Bolded parts: yes. Underlined parts: no. But, for a dictator who had used chemical weapons in the past...makes you wonder. Did Hussein have WMD's in the past? Of course, he used them on civilians! Do you trust a dictator who used chemical agents on civilians when he says that "he destroyed them all"? I wouldn't.

Fact is, they found mustard gas and sarin gas. Was it enough to invade over? Hard to say. How many WMD's or chemical weapons do you let a dictator have?

Oh, and why don't we hear about the war in Iraq anymore? Simple; Bush isn't in office anymore. Can't associate Obama with it; not part of the agenda.

 

[Engineer]

So the big proof and the final justification was a bunch of leftover rotting stuff from 1990-1991? LOL.

Still reaching for a justification....still reaching.

No big ole chemical weapons factories actively pumping out WMD's on a daily basis, eh?

I've been watching the US government set up an incinerator in Richmond KY for nearly 10 years now and it is projected to take between 25-35 years to safely destroy the stockpile of chemical weapons at the Richmond Depot. I guess that old Iraq, with all of their advanced technology and huge inflows of equipment and cash should have had them all destroyed within a few days of the end of Gulf War I.

 

[Vic Vega]

We screwed around in Korea and didn't win. We screwed around in Vietnam and didn't win. We screwed around in Africa and didn't win. We're screwing around in the Middle East and haven't won.

We just don't learn. We're boxing in a street fight.

That's a whole another discussion and most people, even people who were adults during the war, don't understand what happened. Then we get people going around saying things like "The US Lost Vietnam!!111".

The North Vietnamese effectively surrendered to US forces and a peace treaty was signed as the North was on the verge of complete military, industrial and financial defeat. US forces leave Vietnam after the peace treaty is signed.

After US forces left the US Congress passed a law stating that the US could NOT send combat forces back to Vietnam. After this law passed, the North did a full scale invasion into the South. Legally, the US President could not help the South at this point and the South was defeated by the North.

At no time was the US military defeated or in risk of being defeated by the North, in fact quite the opposite was true. The US could have completely destroyed the North's ability to wage war at any point and effectively did with Operation Linebacker and Likebacker II.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally Posted by Engineer
Yes, right. That's because it didn't happen.

Your challenge does not go unnoticed. However, I just don't give a fuck if you few know about it or not. The info's been available for years and, like I said, even posted on these forums.

Know how I know that you don't WANT to be educated? Because you don't go find it yourself.

I bet you wouldn't even read it if I DID bother to go find you some links.

How do you survive completely lacking any critical thinking ability?

 

[Nik]

How do you survive completely lacking any critical thinking ability?

Coming from you, this question is pure comedy ROFL

 

[zinfamous]

Mr. Obama says that "combat" operations have ended and the last "combat" troops have left - as apposed to the other 60k troops left in Iraq who are over there with guns for some reason other than combat. D:

we've had troops there since 91. we maintained a no-fly zone throughout.

Still not sure why people want to ignore the central issue that set off Al Qaeda...

the occupation has been going on now for more than 2 decades, in one form or another.

 

[zinfamous]

So the big proof and the final justification was a bunch of leftover rotting stuff from 1990-1991? LOL.

Still reaching for a justification....still reaching.

No big ole chemical weapons factories actively pumping out WMD's on a daily basis, eh?

I've been watching the US government set up an incinerator in Richmond KY for nearly 10 years now and it is projected to take between 25-35 years to safely destroy the stockpile of chemical weapons at the Richmond Depot. I guess that old Iraq, with all of their advanced technology and huge inflows of equipment and cash should have had them all destroyed within a few days of the end of Gulf War I.

and because invading a country based on speculative and informed assumptions is a grand idea!

Yee-Ha!

😀

 

[Vic Vega]

we've had troops there since 91. we maintained a no-fly zone throughout.

Still not sure why people want to ignore the central issue that set off Al Qaeda...

the occupation has been going on now for more than 2 decades, in one form or another.

Pure comedy.

The nations where coalition forces remained after the Gulf War and prior to 2003 (Iraq was not one of them) were there by the request of those nations.

 

[JS80]

We screwed around in Korea and didn't win. We screwed around in Vietnam and didn't win. We screwed around in Africa and didn't win. We're screwing around in the Middle East and haven't won.

We just don't learn. We're boxing in a street fight.

US screwed around in Korea and I exist. What gives you the right to live in freedom but not others? Go fucking put a bullet in your head you piece of shit.

 

[Nik]

we've had troops there since 91. we maintained a no-fly zone throughout.

Still not sure why people want to ignore the central issue that set off Al Qaeda...

the occupation has been going on now for more than 2 decades, in one form or another.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0431197/

This is a great flick.

 

[kinev]

So the big proof and the final justification was a bunch of leftover rotting stuff from 1990-1991? LOL.

Still reaching for a justification....still reaching.

No big ole chemical weapons factories actively pumping out WMD's on a daily basis, eh?

I've been watching the US government set up an incinerator in Richmond KY for nearly 10 years now and it is projected to take between 25-35 years to safely destroy the stockpile of chemical weapons at the Richmond Depot. I guess that old Iraq, with all of their advanced technology and huge inflows of equipment and cash should have had them all destroyed within a few days of the end of Gulf War I.

Ok. So would you be okay with letting a dictator who used chemical weapons on civilians in the past have "leftover rotting" chemical weapons from 1990-1991?

First it's "NO, THERE WERE NONE! ZERO! BUSH LIED, MEN DIED!!!!!1!!one!1"

Then, it's "SO WHAT?!?! THEY'RE OLD! DOESN'T COUNT IF THEY'RE OLD!"

Oh yeah...

<------- P&N

 

[Nik]

First it's "NO, THERE WERE NONE! ZERO! BUSH LIED, MEN DIED!!!!!1!!one!1"

Then, it's "SO WHAT?!?! THEY'RE OLD! DOESN'T COUNT IF THEY'RE OLD!"

Oh yeah...

<------- P&N

Yep, exactly why I quit arguing with these morons. The data is there, plain and simple. If they choose to ignore it because it doesn't fit their agenda, well then fuck'em.

 

[Engineer]

Ok. So would you be okay with letting a dictator who used chemical weapons on civilians in the past have "leftover rotting" chemical weapons from 1990-1991?

First it's "NO, THERE WERE NONE! ZERO! BUSH LIED, MEN DIED!!!!!1!!one!1"

Then, it's "SO WHAT?!?! THEY'RE OLD! DOESN'T COUNT IF THEY'RE OLD!"

Oh yeah...

<------- P&N

Do you really, really think that those were the justification for going to war? Be honest...bonus points apply.

The propaganda that Saddam was "actively" producing and using WMD's was thrown out time and time and time again. This is "actively"?

People are still reaching....

 

[zinfamous]

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0431197/

This is a great flick.

I dig that movie.

:thumbsup:

 

[Nintendesert]

we've had troops there since 91. we maintained a no-fly zone throughout.

Still not sure why people want to ignore the central issue that set off Al Qaeda...

the occupation has been going on now for more than 2 decades, in one form or another.

Yes, our presence in Saudi Arabia, their holy Mecca land set them off. Which we were there as a direct result of Iraq invading Kuwait.

So in order to get us out of Saudi Arabia and capitulate to the Al Qaeda whackjobs we had to remove the reason for us still being in Saudi Arabia, and thus Iraq and Saddam Hussein got squashed.

 

[Engineer]

Yes, our presence in Saudi Arabia, their holy Mecca land set them off. Which we were there as a direct result of Iraq invading Kuwait.

So in order to get us out of Saudi Arabia and capitulate to the Al Qaeda whackjobs we had to remove the reason for us still being in Saudi Arabia, and thus Iraq and Saddam Hussein got squashed.

Just wait until we build permanent air bases in Afghanistan (Senators calling for that now).

 

[Nik]

Yes, our presence in Saudi Arabia, their holy Mecca land set them off. Which we were there as a direct result of Iraq invading Kuwait.

So in order to get us out of Saudi Arabia and capitulate to the Al Qaeda whackjobs we had to remove the reason for us still being in Saudi Arabia, and thus Iraq and Saddam Hussein got squashed.

SHHHHHH.

You might talk some common knowledge / common sense into these folks.

We can't have that, now, can we?

Don't you dare mention how the Saudi's were caught channeling TONS of money into AQ, Taliban, the crazy Shia in Sudan, etc., either. That might confuse them!