Did Judge Kavanaugh

[K1052]

The problem with that is the "bar" has two positions. Accused or convicted. I'll go ahead and throw in "credibly accused" for the sake of argument, but it needs to be absolutely defined before it can be used to derail a single appointment.
In the case of Kavanaugh, my hunch is that there is truth to the story, but we don't and can't know the specifics.

The problems with Kavanaugh were multifold though. The likely lying about his propensity to get blackout drunk on the regular and open questions about how certain debts came to be paid off. I mean we're not short of lawyers in this country and the insistence that it has to be *this* lawyer that gets appointed seems unreasonably short sighted considering the trauma inflicted on institutions to get him confirmed.

 

[K1052]

And the standards for sending someone to prison are not the same standards as for giving someone a lifetime appointment to an enormously powerful, unreviewable court.

The country we are dreaming of is the country that already exists and has for our entire lifetimes. Public knowledge of identical accusations would stop people from getting jobs all over the country. Apparently if you become powerful enough though the rules no longer apply.

The right to a Supreme Court seat if male and Ivy League seems to have been inadvertently omitted from the constitution.

 

[Greenman]

And the standards for sending someone to prison are not the same standards as for giving someone a lifetime appointment to an enormously powerful, unreviewable court.

The country we are dreaming of is the country that already exists and has for our entire lifetimes. Public knowledge of identical accusations would stop people from getting jobs all over the country. Apparently if you become powerful enough though the rules no longer apply.

So you want this? Any presidential appointment is halted by an accusation of sexual impropriety? You don't think that's going to be weaponized? You don't think that every single candidate that stands before the senate is going to be accused of some crime from the distant past? We're going to trust thirty year old memory's to determine who will sit on the court?
For once, just this one time, try and see this through non partisan eyes. Try to imagine a progressive takes the white house, and every appointment s/he makes is derailed because someone from thirty years back claims sexual misconduct. This is insanity.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Eh. Rapist gonna rape, what you gonna do? Am i rite? Also twas a long time ago, who cares. Am i rite?
What were you doing in the age of Motley Crue, you know what I am saying, you so clean yourself? Forget about it tis what I say.

We have 300.000 years of evolutionary history behind us, if you want to subscribe to something less than our potential .. well then I guess that explains a lot.

What you guys are effectively doing is giving a character on the SUPREME COURT immunity from anything done in his past... cause it must all be shit hurled at a wall or, hey, Motley Crue.
Thats fucking stupid.

What was I doing? Most likely sitting at home playing guitar or Atari. The party culture never appealed to me.

You’re not rite. You are incoherent.

 

[Brainonska511]

Although I come from 180 degrees different than you, I pretty much agree with what you said. The time for this revelation was BEFORE the confirmation. There was huge publicity then, I am at a loss why this classmate didn't come forward then if he/she thought this had any material value.

It sounds like there are a few things that people tried to notify senators and the FBI about during the nomination process, but were summarily ignored, because Republicans wanted to ram through this particular white conservative - skeletons be damned.

Brett Kavanaugh Fit In With the Privileged Kids. She Did Not. (Published 2019)

Deborah Ramirez’s Yale experience says much about the college’s efforts to diversify its student body in the 1980s.

nyti.ms

We also uncovered a previously unreported story about Mr. Kavanaugh in his freshman year that echoes Ms. Ramirez’s allegation. A classmate, Max Stier, saw Mr. Kavanaugh with his pants down at a different drunken dorm party, where friends pushed his penis into the hand of a female student. Mr. Stier, who runs a nonprofit organization in Washington, notified senators and the F.B.I. about this account, but the F.B.I. did not investigate and Mr. Stier has declined to discuss it publicly. (We corroborated the story with two officials who have communicated with Mr. Stier.)

Ms. Ramirez’s legal team gave the F.B.I. a list of at least 25 individuals who may have had corroborating evidence. But the bureau — in its supplemental background investigation — interviewed none of them, though we learned many of these potential witnesses tried in vain to reach the F.B.I. on their own.

Two F.B.I. agents interviewed Ms. Ramirez, telling her that they found her “credible.” But the Republican-controlled Senate had imposed strict limits on the investigation. “‘We have to wait to get authorization to do anything else,’” Bill Pittard, one of Ms. Ramirez’s lawyers, recalled the agents saying. “It was almost a little apologetic.”

 

[K1052]

For his supporters, to not be convicted means you are innocent. That you did not do the crime.
You know, like Hillary is completely innocent of allegations against her. Depending on which political party you are.

I mean the only real allegations against Hillary was that she improperly handled classified info via her email and thus isn't a good fit for the presidency which handles tons of secrets. An idea which seems hilarious given the total open disregard the current admin seems to have for protecting such secrets.

 

[K1052]

So you want this? Any presidential appointment is halted by an accusation of sexual impropriety? You don't think that's going to be weaponized? You don't think that every single candidate that stands before the senate is going to be accused of some crime from the distant past? We're going to trust thirty year old memory's to determine who will sit on the court?
For once, just this one time, try and see this through non partisan eyes. Try to imagine a progressive takes the white house, and every appointment s/he makes is derailed because someone from thirty years back claims sexual misconduct. This is insanity.

Was Gorsuch credibly accused of anything that derailed his confirmation?

This excessive pearl clutching is tiresome.

 

[JSt0rm]

So you want this? Any presidential appointment is halted by an accusation of sexual impropriety? You don't think that's going to be weaponized? You don't think that every single candidate that stands before the senate is going to be accused of some crime from the distant past? We're going to trust thirty year old memory's to determine who will sit on the court?
For once, just this one time, try and see this through non partisan eyes. Try to imagine a progressive takes the white house, and every appointment s/he makes is derailed because someone from thirty years back claims sexual misconduct. This is insanity.

insanity was not letting the president (obama) put up a justice. Now we will add seats to the supreme court. Cause and effect. Enjoy.

 

[Greenman]

The problems with Kavanaugh were multifold though. The likely lying about his propensity to get blackout drunk on the regular and open questions about how certain debts came to be paid off. I mean we're not short of lawyers in this country and the insistence that it has to be *this* lawyer that gets appointed seems unreasonably short sighted considering the trauma inflicted on institutions to get him confirmed.

That's backward logic. Any "truma" was created by his accusers and their supporters. I also absolutely reject the concept that an appointment has to be easy, that puts us right back to square one where an accusation is a disqualifying event. There has to be consistency in the system, the rules have to be defined and enforced. If they need to be changed then we should change them, but we can't do that on the fly, and we can't make them vague or based on feelings.

 

[trenchfoot]

Public opinion and hearsay aren't Justice as you seem to think. Gossip and accusations aren't a conviction. The country you're dreaming of would be the seventh circle of hell for the five years it survived.

C'mon, we're talking about Kavanaugh of all people. The guy who dodged and weaved around those many legitimate questions that were asked of him during his confirmation hearings. The guy of whom Repub legislators tried their utmost to suppress and hide credible evidence that refuted/debunked his sworn testimony. The guy who threw impartiality to the wind when he launched his diatribe against his perceived enemies, all of them being those Democrats who saw his display of more than obvious dishonesty and pursued this avenue of questioning to get to the truth and facts of which Kavanugh again either avoided or refused to give straight up answers to.

That suspicious behavior of his lending doubt to his credibility and trustworthiness alone was enough to disqualify him and would have had it not been for the horrible way McConnell and his fellow Repubs usurped the selection process in favor of complete and utter partisan corruption of said process.

 

[Starbuck1975]

People are saying....

Andrea sounds concerned. She’s going to be drumming for a long time.

 

[fskimospy]

So you want this? Any presidential appointment is halted by an accusation of sexual impropriety? You don't think that's going to be weaponized? You don't think that every single candidate that stands before the senate is going to be accused of some crime from the distant past? We're going to trust thirty year old memory's to determine who will sit on the court?
For once, just this one time, try and see this through non partisan eyes. Try to imagine a progressive takes the white house, and every appointment s/he makes is derailed because someone from thirty years back claims sexual misconduct. This is insanity.

I think you should take your own advice and try and take your partisanship out of your reasoning.

Kavanaugh’s accuser was credible and we know Kavanaugh lied repeatedly during his testimony. To a reasonable and objective person that should be enough to sink him.

 

[fskimospy]

One other thing to note is how silly the whole idea that everyone will be accused of sexual misconduct is.

After the Kavanaugh hearings conservatives tried to do exactly that in regards to Mueller! It failed because the accusations weren’t credible, unlike with Kavanaugh.

 

[Starbuck1975]

The right to a Supreme Court seat if male and Ivy League seems to have been inadvertently omitted from the constitution.

The Founding Fathers did seem to include a right to due process. If Kavanaugh committed crimes for which there is credible evidence, let him stand accused of those crimes in a court of law.

The Democrats chose the kangaroo court path, and it was never going to change the outcome.

 

[IronWing]

That's backward logic. Any "truma" was created by his accusers and their supporters. I also absolutely reject the concept that an appointment has to be easy, that puts us right back to square one where an accusation is a disqualifying event. There has to be consistency in the system, the rules have to be defined and enforced. If they need to be changed then we should change them, but we can't do that on the fly, and we can't make them vague or based on feelings.

^ I see the Republicans are busy re-writing history less than a year after the events transpired.

 

[fskimospy]

The Founding Fathers did seem to include a right to due process. If Kavanaugh committed crimes for which there is credible evidence, let him stand accused of those crimes in a court of law.

The Democrats chose the kangaroo court path, and it was never going to change the outcome.

There is no right to due process in regards to a job application, which is what this was. The ONLY time anyone is entitled to a single shred of due process as per the constitution is as part of a criminal proceeding, which this was not.

The fact that you guys have to invent new constitutional rights out of thin air should be a sign that your argument is weak.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Andrea sounds concerned. She’s going to be drumming for a long time.

People are saying....#bothsides!

 

[fskimospy]

This whole ‘the standard of evidence for denying someone a job should be the same as imprisoning them’ argument is one of the more bonkers theories I have heard.

 

[IronWing]

This whole ‘the standard of evidence for denying someone a job should be the same as imprisoning them’ argument is one of the more bonkers theories I have heard.

Greenman is just another shill trying to flush the history of how Kavanaugh obtained his court seat down the memory hole.

 

[fskimospy]

Greenman is just another shill trying to flush the history of how Kavanaugh obtained his court seat down the memory hole.

They are just repeating the exact same arguments used at the time of the confirmation, that if Kavanaugh could not be imprisoned for his conduct that he must then be given a lifetime appointment of enormous power.

 

[K1052]

This whole ‘the standard of evidence for denying someone a job should be the same as imprisoning them’ argument is one of the more bonkers theories I have heard.

Next job interview that goes poorly I'm going to take my shoe off and pound on the table while yelling about not getting "due process".

 

[IronWing]

They are just repeating the exact same arguments used at the time of the confirmation, that if Kavanaugh could not be imprisoned for his conduct that he must then be given a lifetime appointment of enormous power.

He's doing more than that. He's disregarding the obstruction put in place by the Republicans to any meaningful investigation of Kavanaugh's fitness for the court, particularly wrt Kavanaugh's conduct in the White House.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Just got interesting.
Sounds like there were dozens of accusations that the FBI did not follow up on because they couldn’t reach out to all accusers by the stop time they were given.

For the record I’m not saying Kavanaugh is guilty of anything. I am saying rushing a confirmation thru and taking zero feedback from “the other side” will always overshadow Kavanaugh.

 

[K1052]

That's backward logic. Any "truma" was created by his accusers and their supporters. I also absolutely reject the concept that an appointment has to be easy, that puts us right back to square one where an accusation is a disqualifying event. There has to be consistency in the system, the rules have to be defined and enforced. If they need to be changed then we should change them, but we can't do that on the fly, and we can't make them vague or based on feelings.

Unless you're proposing a way to make nominations a non-partisan affair I don't see how what you propose is possible let alone likely. I mean the GOP explicitly sees judgeships as a partisan advantage and tells their constituents that.

 

[compuwiz1]

LOL
You guys are the definition of insanity; Obsessive beating of dead horses, while expecting different results. Some here live on these forums, subscribing to every accusation and conspiracy theory that comes along. What a painfully pathetic way to go through life. I just don't understand how so many have so much time to let so much negative energy consume your lives. I drop in here about once a day, then go about life and enjoy. I hope that sky doesn't hit you too hard when it finally falls.