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Did Christ commit suicide?

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Originally posted by: thirtythree
Err, are you serious? I thought Jesus was perfect, and how can he be if he just makes exceptions to his laws willy nilly? He's perfect by the standards he makes up? 😕
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Just a little side point here. It's the catholics that decreed suicide a sin, not the bible. That's just belief 1001 the catholics made up.
 
Why did Jesus have to die on the cross? Because Adam and Eve disobeyed God in the Garden of Eden and humans were thereafter born in sin. If man haven't disobeyed God, then Jesus wouldn't have had to die, so therefore man is responsible for Christ's death.
 
Originally posted by: Malak
Originally posted by: thirtythree
Err, are you serious? I thought Jesus was perfect, and how can he be if he just makes exceptions to his laws willy nilly? He's perfect by the standards he makes up? 😕
Click to expand...

Just a little side point here. It's the catholics that decreed suicide a sin, not the bible. That's just belief 1001 the catholics made up.
Click to expand...

SO Jesus actually didn't pray with rosemary beads??? :Q
 
Originally posted by: thirtythree
Plus could physical pain really kill him? I thought he endured even worse pain in the garden of whatcha-ma-jingle where he bled from every pore and such. Other religions believe in that, right? Plus, as mentioned in my original post, it seemed like he CHOSE to "give up the ghost."
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Through early morning fog I see visions of the things to be
The pains that are withheld for me I realize and I can see . . .
That suicide is painless it brings on many changes
And I can take or leave it if I please.

I try to find a way to make all our little joys relate
Without that ever-present hate but now I know that it?s too late,
and . . .That suicide is painless it brings on many changes
And I can take or leave it if I please.

The game of life is hard to play. I?m gonna lose it anyway.
The losing card I?ll someday lay so this is all I have to say.
That suicide is painless it brings on many changes
And I can take or leave it if I please.

The only way to win is cheat and lay it down before I?m beat,
and to another give my seat for that?s the only painless feat.
That suicide is painless it brings on many changes
And I can take or leave it if I please.

The sword of time will pierce our skins it doesn?t hurt when it begins
But as it works its way on in the pain grows stronger . . . watch it grin, but . . .
That suicide is painless it brings on many changes
And I can take or leave it if I please.

A brave man once requested me to answer questions that are key
'Is it to be or not to be' and I replied 'oh why ask me?'
That suicide is painless it brings on many changes
And I can take or leave it if I please.
And you can do the same thing if you choose.
 
Firefighters, policemen, military personel, etc all commit suicide daily by willingly putting themselves into mortal danger. I fail to see any flaw in this logic.
 
suicide - the act or an instance of taking

taking (I assume this is the relevant definition) - (1) : to put an end to (life) (2) : to remove by death <was taken in his prime>

He put an end to his life, no? As I said, I don't think it was the physical wounds. Alternatively, he was "taken" (2) by God, who is also Christ 😕

one's own life voluntarily

voluntarily - 1 : proceeding from the will or from one's own choice or consent

This has been covered... he knew what he was choosing to do.

and intentionally

intentionally - 1 : done by intention or design : INTENDED <intentional damage>

It was certain planned. It was part of his "mission" here on Earth, no?

especially by a person of years of discretion and of sound mind

Yeah, this doesn't really matter, but I don't think anyone will argue this point.
Originally posted by: Malak
Originally posted by: thirtythree
Err, are you serious? I thought Jesus was perfect, and how can he be if he just makes exceptions to his laws willy nilly? He's perfect by the standards he makes up? 😕
Click to expand...

Just a little side point here. It's the catholics that decreed suicide a sin, not the bible. That's just belief 1001 the catholics made up.
Click to expand...
Don't most religions consider it a sin though? It is "taking life" or whatever.
Originally posted by: Bassyhead
Why did Jesus have to die on the cross? Because Adam and Eve disobeyed God in the Garden of Eden and humans were thereafter born in sin. If man haven't disobeyed God, then Jesus wouldn't have had to die, so therefore man is responsible for Christ's death.
Click to expand...
Adam and Eve wouldn't have disobeyed God if God hadn't created them, so it was his fault they sinned, and thus his fault he died.
Originally posted by: LoKe
Sacrifice isn't suicide.
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Uhh, suicide is suicide regardless of the purpose for it (see above). If I "sacrificed" myself to some god by putting a bullet through my head, it would still be a suicide, no?
Originally posted by: diegoalcatraz
Firefighters, policemen, military personel, etc all commit suicide daily by willingly putting themselves into mortal danger. I fail to see any flaw in this logic.
Click to expand...
They don't plan to die, purposefully not go on living, or cause themselves to die. They don't commit suicide...
 
I think you are missing what I'm trying to explain.

He didn't design it. He didn't commit it. He didn't do ANYTHING to explicitly cause it. Someone else arrested him, someone else tortured him, and someone else killed him. It required nothing from him. This happens every day, it isn't considered suicide in any society. The ability to stop it doesn't make it suicide.
 
Originally posted by: thirtythree
He chose to die on the cross and, in theory, could've stopped it from happening. He even said "Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit" before "giving up the ghost," no? I was raised LDS, and thus consider God, Jesus, and the Holy Ghost to be separate entities (if I consider them at all, that is), but don't most religions believe that they are one? I mean, either Jesus or God must have made Jesus die, or was it just a coincidence that it happened right after he said that?
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no. he did not.

 
Originally posted by: Malak
I think you are missing what I'm trying to explain.

He didn't design it. He didn't commit it. He didn't do ANYTHING to explicitly cause it. Someone else arrested him, someone else tortured him, and someone else killed him. It required nothing from him. This happens every day, it isn't considered suicide in any society. The ability to stop it doesn't make it suicide.
Click to expand...
Originally posted by: thirtythree
Plus could physical pain really kill him? I thought he endured even worse pain in the garden of whatcha-ma-jingle where he bled from every pore and such. Other religions believe in that, right? Plus, as mentioned in my original post, it seemed like he CHOSE to "give up the ghost."
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Or do you believe it really was the torture that killed him?
 
Originally posted by: thirtythree
Originally posted by: diegoalcatraz
Firefighters, policemen, military personel, etc all commit suicide daily by willingly putting themselves into mortal danger. I fail to see any flaw in this logic.
Click to expand...
They don't plan to die, purposefully not go on living, or cause themselves to die. They don't commit suicide...
Click to expand...

They put themselves into a situation where they are facing the threat of death. In some situations, they know they will die, but still do their duty.

Like an above poster said, sacrifice isn't the same as suicide.
 
Originally posted by: thirtythree
Plus could physical pain really kill him? I thought he endured even worse pain in the garden of whatcha-ma-jingle where he bled from every pore and such. Other religions believe in that, right? Plus, as mentioned in my original post, it seemed like he CHOSE to "give up the ghost."
Click to expand...
Or do you believe it really was the torture that killed him?[/quote]

If we go the route of him giving up the ghost voluntarily, then we end up in a whole nother conversation entirely. Being an eternal being, he doesn't really die, so technically he is still alive and thus this is all moot.
 
Originally posted by: diegoalcatraz
Originally posted by: thirtythree
Originally posted by: diegoalcatraz
Firefighters, policemen, military personel, etc all commit suicide daily by willingly putting themselves into mortal danger. I fail to see any flaw in this logic.
Click to expand...
They don't plan to die, purposefully not go on living, or cause themselves to die. They don't commit suicide...
Click to expand...

They put themselves into a situation where they are facing the threat of death. In some situations, they know they will die, but still do their duty.

Like an above poster said, sacrifice isn't the same as suicide.
Click to expand...
See my post two up from yours, silly bear. If they've (here's my try at an analogy) done their duty and have no further need to endure pain but instead, by their own power, grab a piece of glass and slit their lists, it's a suicide.
 
Originally posted by: Malak
Originally posted by: thirtythree
Plus could physical pain really kill him? I thought he endured even worse pain in the garden of whatcha-ma-jingle where he bled from every pore and such. Other religions believe in that, right? Plus, as mentioned in my original post, it seemed like he CHOSE to "give up the ghost."
Click to expand...
Or do you believe it really was the torture that killed him?
Click to expand...

If we go the route of him giving up the ghost voluntarily, then we end up in a whole nother conversation entirely. Being an eternal being, he doesn't really die, so technically he is still alive and thus this is all moot.[/quote]Well technically we all live on eternally then, so there is no dying, so there is no suicide...... death is the separation of the body and soul I thought.
 
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