Hey, I hate Steam as well. But it's not really any more than 3 installs still, since it says "without an OS change or major hardware upgrade".
What are the chances that you are going to install it, then uninstall it and then reinstall it at a later point without having done something to the PC. I would expect most people here would just leave it installed (I would), and if they need a "reinstall" it's going to be due to an OS reinstall or similar.
Back when SecuROM started I wasn't too bothered by install limits, and said so, but it's stupid that when everyone else has seen sense and made the system more consumer friendly, there are still new products coming out with the restrictive versions we had at the beginning with only 3 installs and no revoke.
The point (for me at least) is not so much what exactly the restrictions are (I have Spore and Crysis Warhead both bought when it was 3 installs from EA and no revoke), but the fact that they don't seem to have taken the hint from other people that it seems to still work when you are more lenient by giving more installs/having a revoke tool.
Going back to where we began seems silly and I am not going to buy something which is in the same state games were 6 months ago.
I think this was also Golgotha's point as well if you look at the topic title. It's not about SecuROM itself, it's about the anti-consumer implementation of it vs other more friendly forms which everyone else has moved on to.
mindcycle
Golden Member
- Jan 9, 2008
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Why wouldn't we be? I'm just about to install Gothic 2 again as there's a user mod I want to try out. I've played through it about 5 or 6 times prior on about as many different machines/configs. Lets say it had a 3 install limit.. would I have to call Jowood each time after the 3rd to be given the "privilege" to install it again? That's just absurd IMO. I bought the game, I should be able to install it whenever I want.
I don't really like Steam at all, but at least you can install the game you paid for as many times as you want and not be forced to call Steam after the third time.
Now, if they were selling Dark Athena "as a rental" and it costs $10 to install it and play it unlimited times on one machine, i'd be fine with that. Unfortunately they're not selling it like that, and they're trying to pass off this DRM "solution" as no big deal when it's obvious flawed and unacceptable by most gamers. (Look at all those opposed in this thread alone)
Again, didn't they learn anything from EA? What's wrong with these people?
apoppin
Lifer
You guys can't read; maybe PC gamers didn't learn anything either - like reading comprehension:
it is UNLIMITED installs on ANY *three* PCs
if you need more than that, use your cell phone and call Atari and be as rude as you like
[then call back]
:roll:
i *guarantee* there will be a revoke tool when they start to get a lot of calls
- they almost always do this AFTER the game is no longer as popular to pirate as when it is first released
it is an awesome game
:heart:
mindcycle
Golden Member
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Nope, I read it just fine. What happens is if you install a new graphics.. one install gone. New cpu? One install gone. Your computer crashes and you have to re-install the OS.. one install gone. Get a New machine? One install gone. etc.. etc..
Maybe you need to re-read the article.
Oh, and since you're quoting me, what about my Gothic comparision didn't you understand?
Anubis
No Lifer
apoppin
Lifer
Originally posted by: mindcycle
Nope, I read it just fine. What happens is if you install a new graphics.. one install gone. New cpu? One install gone. Your computer crashes and you have to re-install the OS.. one install gone. Get a New machine? One install gone. etc.. etc..
Maybe you need to re-read the article.
Graphics cards don't count if it is like Windows activation. Mainly the MB change; so no biggie for most of us. And i change my HW far more than most; i changed my MB last month
How often do you reinstall your OS? .. i am installing Vista 64 this weekend
THREE PCs .. unlimited installs .. that is about 3 or 4 months for me .. about the time we will see the tool, i bet
GaryJohnson
Senior member
- Jun 2, 2006
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I'm starting to think more and more that CYA (cover your ass) is the reason for DRM nowadays. Someone at these companies has to actively make the decision to use Securom, and I doubt its the CEOs. The publisher is also subject to influence of marketing by the DRM companies. To the publisher, it sounds like a no brainer - of course we want copy protection. If a game doesnt sell well, at least shareholders cant call them incompetent for ignoring piracy. Then they can blame the developers.
I remember a week after the whole fiasco, EA was talking about how it affected less than 1% of their customers - of course it did, no one has reinstalled 3 times after a week.
I sure wish they'd cut this crap out though. Never bought a securom game, never will.
mindcycle
Golden Member
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Originally posted by: apoppin
Graphics cards don't count if it is like Windows activation. Mainly the MB change; so no biggie for most of us. And i change my HW far more than most; i changed my MB last month
How often do you reinstall your OS? .. i am installing Vista 64 this weekend
THREE PCs .. unlimited installs .. that is about 3 or 4 months for me .. about the time we will see the tool, i bet
I'm fairly sure GFX cards count, but not certain, so you may be right. Anyway it doesn't really matter. Your explanation sounds like how they probably justified the use of install limits in the first place. But, here's the thing.. why the need for them at all? That's my question. All it does is inconvenience legit customers. How do install limits prevent piracy? I don't understand how anyone would think they would.
Originally posted by: mindcycle
Originally posted by: apoppin
Graphics cards don't count if it is like Windows activation. Mainly the MB change; so no biggie for most of us. And i change my HW far more than most; i changed my MB last month
How often do you reinstall your OS? .. i am installing Vista 64 this weekend
THREE PCs .. unlimited installs .. that is about 3 or 4 months for me .. about the time we will see the tool, i bet
I'm fairly sure GFX cards count, but not certain, so you may be right. Anyway it doesn't really matter. Your explanation sounds like how they probably justified the use of install limits in the first place. But, here's the thing.. why the need for them at all? That's my question. All it does is inconvenience legit customers. How do install limits prevent piracy? I don't understand how anyone would think they would.
They prevent you from buying a game, and giving the disc to all your friends. Disc checks make it so only one can play at a time, but install limits make it so few can ever play it, which in theory, should force you and your friends to all buy your own damn copy instead of passing the disc around.
It has nothing to do with stopping mass piracy like bittorrent.
apoppin
Lifer
Originally posted by: mindcycle
Originally posted by: apoppin
Graphics cards don't count if it is like Windows activation. Mainly the MB change; so no biggie for most of us. And i change my HW far more than most; i changed my MB last month
How often do you reinstall your OS? .. i am installing Vista 64 this weekend
THREE PCs .. unlimited installs .. that is about 3 or 4 months for me .. about the time we will see the tool, i bet
I'm fairly sure GFX cards count, but not certain, so you may be right. Anyway it doesn't really matter. Your explanation sounds like how they probably justified the use of install limits in the first place. But, here's the thing.. why the need for them at all? That's my question. All it does is inconvenience legit customers. How do install limits prevent piracy? I don't understand how anyone would think they would.
Graphics cards don't count; i swap mine out regularly
They have to protect themselves [and justify it to their board]
.. Activation limits *delay* piracy .. that is the best they can hope for
that is why a revocation tool is almost always made available in a few months - when their legit customers start complaining en masse [in a few months]
[they don't like the time their CS "wastes" with it either]
OK, so its "3 PCs, unlimited number of installs".
Have they defines what constitiutes a "PC" yet?
Is it basically 3 mobos?
Or 3 separate OS licenses maybe?
Or something else? It can't be video cards, not in this industry. No way.
It doesn't seem as unreasonable as Bioshock et al. Still, restricting (ie "punishing") the legit game owner who purchased his/her copy is inherently flawed. Pirates will have a field day with this and suffer zero issues related to DRM. Mission NOT accomplished by game developer yet again. Stardock's CEO must be shaking his head.
Have they defines what constitiutes a "PC" yet?
Is it basically 3 mobos?
Or 3 separate OS licenses maybe?
Or something else? It can't be video cards, not in this industry. No way.
It doesn't seem as unreasonable as Bioshock et al. Still, restricting (ie "punishing") the legit game owner who purchased his/her copy is inherently flawed. Pirates will have a field day with this and suffer zero issues related to DRM. Mission NOT accomplished by game developer yet again. Stardock's CEO must be shaking his head.
Heh the same usual suspects, dealing in the same brand of fearmongering and misinformation, as usual. What makes anyone think this version of activation SecuROM is any different from the others used in the past, where activations are returned automatically when the game is uninstalled on any given machine?
In any case, its gotten the typical treatment, mass hysteria and misinformation from the anti-DRM crowd, poor reporting of the facts by the gaming "press", and even worst communication and clarification from Atari. That's assuming relevant information about uninstallation wasn't omitted from those news releases of course.
As for the purpose of install limits, its to prevent casual piracy, but its also to prevent more rampant community abuse like Cyber Cafes or college dorms. Its also to prevent install and resale. Note, this is not the same as resale, as once you sell your copy you also transfer your rights to use it.
In any case, its gotten the typical treatment, mass hysteria and misinformation from the anti-DRM crowd, poor reporting of the facts by the gaming "press", and even worst communication and clarification from Atari. That's assuming relevant information about uninstallation wasn't omitted from those news releases of course.
As for the purpose of install limits, its to prevent casual piracy, but its also to prevent more rampant community abuse like Cyber Cafes or college dorms. Its also to prevent install and resale. Note, this is not the same as resale, as once you sell your copy you also transfer your rights to use it.
Wow. Non revocable installs...just wow. How is that going to impact piracy when any crack will necessarily avoid any internet authentication anyway? Pirates rock on as usual, legitimate buyers are saddled with an incredibly onerous limitation on what they can do with their game. Good god, the stupidity of it. I too would have purchased the game and probably will not now.
apoppin
Lifer
Your loss
an unlimited number of installs on 3 PCs is quite reasonable
:roll:
Steam sucks in comparison .. at least i can sell Dark Athena when i am done with it
- it is MINE .. and they will give me a revocation tool
Well I may buy it anyway, but I still think this is a foolish measure for atari to take. I went through several hardware changes and used up all my installs for Farcry 2 in a week without knowing that there was an activation limit/revokation process. Ubisoft reset my activation limit, but it had to be done via e-mail and took several days. It was really an enormous bother that I don't feel I should have had to go through after purchasing the game legally. I am now solidly against all DRM of that sort and it makes a huge difference in my purchasing decisions.
apoppin
Lifer
one thing i do agree with .. they should make it very clear that there IS a limit .. in the manual
- and they should also state WHEN it will be removed
they have very bad PR
- unlike Steam
- and they should also state WHEN it will be removed
they have very bad PR
- unlike Steam
This cools my interest in the game as well. I'll still buy it most likely, but in light of this I'll wait until it is in the $20 bin someday.
ZzZGuy
Golden Member
- Nov 15, 2006
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I'm sorry, but you're a idiot for thinking that. I have a desktop PC and laptop (that can play crysis), I format every 6 months or so which this software will read as a new machine. Then if I decide to say... upgrade my CPU then that's another machine there most likely.
Given the right time I can burn through 3 installs in a week, so don't pretend that because you don't care others have no reason to.
-edit- oh, and even given a revoke tool I don't always have access to the internet, and I refuse to rely on customer support that may or may not call me a pirate. Have fun with your DRM, I won't have to worry about any of this crap.
mindcycle
Golden Member
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Originally posted by: apoppin
one thing i do agree with .. they should make it very clear that there IS a limit .. in the manual
- and they should also state WHEN it will be removed
they have very bad PR
- unlike Steam
I definitely agree with what you're saying here. It should be on the back of the box and very clear as to what you will be installing, not just "internet connection is required" or whatever they normally do.
QFT
Yep, and that's the same BS that was spread about Spore, Mass Effect, Crysis Warhead, Bioshock and every other title that shipped with activation-based DRM that "ate" an installation each time you actually installed it, when that wasn't the case. In all of those games, an installation was returned provided you uninstalled the game, the only need for a revocation tool was if you exhausted all 3 of your installations and wiping your OS without first uninstalling the game.
So I ask again, what makes you or anyone else in this thread believe this version of SecuROM is different than those employed in the past? I've already detailed what I'm basing it on, and as far as I've seen, this has also been the case with the Activation SecuROM Atari employed in another recent title:
- Alone In the Dark - SecuROM and Unlock FAQ fixed link
REVOCATION GUIDELINE :
Revoking the activation is important to reset the full activation rights and allow you to install the game on another computer or sell it. The revocation of the serial is done automatically during the uninstallation process. However, if you decided not to revoke your license when the option is displayed, you can still do it later by re-installing and de-installing your game or you can download are run a revocation tool from this site.
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