Did anyone of U asked yourself why tuesday attack happened to you?

[Texmaster]

<< I really wont reply to all those post which cannot give me an constructive answer...really. With such aroggant response with which you just show how strongly you fit in typical " american cowboy" image. >>



I gave you contructive answers. You are just too gutless to back up your own warped arguements

 

[Aurianne]

While I'll grant the fact that our foreign policies bear review I'm really tired of some of the "reasons" being tossed about that supposedly "justify" mass murder.

To wit: "Do you know that there is maybe evidence of Osama bin ladin being financed and trained by CIA when former soviet union attacked Afganistan? He has the knowledge from your operatives. What does that say to you?"

Well Rudi to tell you the truth the U.S. did indeed help recruit, finance, arm, train and support Mujahadeen resistance fighters to oppose the Soviet invasion of Afganistan. Yep. The big bad U.S.A. provided advisers, money, food, weapons, training and other assistance to muslims in a struggle to help Afganistan resist an armed invasion. Oslama Bin Laden and his cohorts were among many non-Afgans who flocked to Afganistan to join the Mujahadeen and so in that context you could say the U.S. aided Bin Laden- to help free Afganastan from an invasion.

Yep Rudi that sure shows how the USA is anti-muslim! How dare we assist a muslim nation! Oh and by the way, the big bad USA didn't maintain an army in Afganastan, we didn't place any puppets in power once Afganistan repulsed the invading armies of Spetnatz or impose any "imperialist" price tag for our help either.

Yep, we must have merited the wrath of Allah for the evils of our ways eh Rudi?

Ok, let's address the "selling arms in a businesslike manner" issue next shall we? I have no idea how many dollars worth of arms the US sells versus the dollar value of arms of every type being sold (in the open or thru the black market) by the former soviet block countries, by China, by France, by Germany, by muslim countries or by every other nation who also sells arms. Do your sources tell you that we're selling the most or something? At least we take care to watch what we sell and try to take rsponsibility for who we sell to rather than selling everything from outdated weapons to nuclear warheads and biological weapons. I understand if you have enough money you can buy anything from the former soviet republics and France never said no to francs for Mirage fighters yet. So Rudi, who is next on the hit list for selling arms?

Ok, how about your charge of "exploiting cheap labor in third world countries"- really? By buying their goods? By building factories that employ them? Explain yourself instead of just making blind open ended charges please. Are you saying that the workers in whatever country you are referring to would be better off economically if the US did NOT import or buy their goods?

 

[hungrypete]

<< i just want from you to realize some issues involved here. >>



The intelligent people understand the situation, even if they still are saying stupid things like 'carpet bomb' or 'nuke'. The not so intelligent people probably aren't worth trying to explain these things too. It would be like trying to explain something to you.These people have little or no grammar skills, refuse to listen to any side but thier own, and repeatedly point out the obvious and make stupid excuses. Kinda like you. Now seriously, your we-deserve-it-because-we-are-American-and-all-Americans-suck-because-Im-from-a-third-world-country-and-I-hate-them-becuase-Im-so-poor-and-ugly BS is starting to irritate me.

 

[MikeO]

<< Do you know that there is maybe evidence of Osama bin ladin being financed and trained by CIA

"maybe evidence"

some evidence for you!!! >>




Doh! I thought this might happen, you got it wrong way...

I wondered wtf is he talking about "maybe evidence" as I thought everyone already knows this by now

Guess not...

 

[iamwiz82]

<< Yeh right, I guess the terrorist where from those countries. >>



way to put words in my mouth.



<< And YOu folks are prime example of how you are not capable of doing this (Kyoto protocol). >>



you didnt read the Kyoto Treaty did you? America would have had to cut down more pollution than neccessary to clean up other countries. We are not socialists, and the Kyoto Treaty was definately socialist in nature. Show us a FAIR environmental treaty, and we will sign it.


Again, you said we have issues. I assume you are pointing to foriegn policy. Once again, i ask you to show some evidence that the US has done evil deeds that NO OTHER COUNTRY has done before.

 

[hungrypete]

<< Once again, i ask you to show some evidence that the US has done evil deeds that NO OTHER COUNTRY has done before. >>



And that it intentionally killed thousands of civilians just to make a point. Oh wait, this guy has no evidence, he'sprobably puking up what he hears on TV in his country, provided he can afford a TV.

Remember kids, arms are not fruits.

 

[Zwingle]

<< However, there are some countries that seem to remain stuck in third world status. And the reason for this is because they have corrupt or mismanaged (usually because they are heavily socialist or communist) governments. >>



I agree....but the gov't also needs to take care of the problems we have at home before trying to instill our political system on others.

 

[hungrypete]

<<

<< However, there are some countries that seem to remain stuck in third world status. And the reason for this is because they have corrupt or mismanaged (usually because they are heavily socialist or communist) governments. >>

I agree....but the gov't also needs to take care of the problems we have at home before trying to instill our political system on others. >>



Are you sure you know what you are talking about?

 

[GL]

Thumbs up Texmaster. I was going to put up a similar post but anticipated he wouldn't comprehend it...

 

[rudi]

Do u think that everybody who doesnt agree with your point of view is a terrorist? Huuuuh.....

How can you not accept the fact that i am not aginst you. I just think about the whole thing and what it may trigger if there is no thinking behind it? i just say maybe you should reconsider that I may be more objetive than you are, cause i am miles away from both camps.

Do u know how dangerus will be if there is war today? I belive you will win, but at what cost? Remember Vietnam?War& Violence doesnt do nothing...you have means other than war to get to the guilty ones...

Once more....it is horrible that this things happen. It IS! I really dont have the words anymore...i am sorry if i ofended anyone but ccertain facts remain no matter how you put it....

 

[iamwiz82]

<< Do u know how dangerus will be if there is war today? I belive you will win, but at what cost? Remember Vietnam?War& Violence doesnt do nothing...you have means other than war to get to the guilty ones... >>




Vietnam was not a war anyone supported. We were not attacked on our own soil. Vietnam failed because no one supported us, at home or overseas. This war will be much more supported, and it already is. 80+% of the US population will be supporting it.

 

[hungrypete]

<< Do u think that everybody who doesnt agree with your point of view is a terrorist? Huuuuh..... How can you not accept the fact that i am not aginst you. I just think about the whole thing and what it may trigger if there is no thinking behind it? i just say maybe you should reconsider that I may be more objetive than you are, cause i am miles away from both camps. Do u know how dangerus will be if there is war today? I belive you will win, but at what cost? Remember Vietnam?War& Violence doesnt do nothing...you have means other than war to get to the guilty ones... Once more....it is horrible that this things happen. It IS! I really dont have the words anymore...i am sorry if i ofended anyone but ccertain facts remain no matter how you put it.... >>



Please don't confuse facts with your opinion. These things are SO very different. America realizes what is happening. We know that this war could be awful. But they are going to keep attacking us until we prove to them that it ISN'T WORTH IT to attack us becuase we WILL smack them back. Frankly, I could care less what you think. Tex gave reasonable responses and you insulted him. You have shown little or no evidence for your theories. You should really prepare yourself better before coming here with your misguided sympathy for terrorism.

 

[Pliablemoose]

rudi
Obviously, your talents are wasted at your current profession, as a keen observer of international affairs, you should be looking to a career in public service in your country, where you can make a difference.

We as a world need answers and solutions, and diplomacy is appreciated by any civilized nation, rather than terrorism. The U.S. pumps more money into the U.N. than any other nation, where we routinely get our assses kicked using parlamentary procedure.

Real change comes slowly & from within, not from someone holding a gun to your head, after they've just shot your neighbor.

 

[rudi]

You just apologize yourself with others doing the same thing...great. As if that makes it allright?

Maybe that is a wonderful result of yor evolution, but maybe you should do better in the future in order to show other how to do it since you are the first nation in the world...

As for Afganistan goes....who are you fooling, you assist them because of fear of the reds, not cause you felt sympathetic toward Afgans. Same in Vietnam......how come then you dont assist Tibet when China invaded it? Fear...?

Come on people get real.....and I am not talking about support, I am talking about your potential victims. I know you have support. It is not about that

Kyoto...socialistic... no cooment.... maybe cause you are the greatest pollutor,....eh, it isnt worth it.

Sad, sad...

 

[Optimus]

Anyone else beginning to get the picture that there is a number of people outside the US, but in supposedly friendly countries, that are quietly thrilled and happy at what happened to "Big dumb cowboy America"?

:|

 

[iamwiz82]

<< As for Afganistan goes....who are you fooling, you assist them because of fear of the reds, not cause you felt sympathetic toward Afgans. Same in Vietnam......

<<

Very true, you, of all people should know about communism, or were you too young?



<< Kyoto...socialistic... no cooment.... maybe cause you are the greatest pollutor,....eh, it isnt worth it >>



We produce more. Why should we clean up others messes? I could understand if the whole world reduced pollution, but certain countries were allowed to produce MORE pollution, that makes a heck of alot of sense.

 

[ToBeMe]

Rudi, So nice to see you have opinions! Yes, you allowed to have them and even speak freely about them.......isn't that a nice feeling? You seem to be so very well versed from thhe "slanted" media information YOU receive.....now isn't that ironic? Oh, and since we are so very bad........please, the next time there is a terrible earthquake, flood, or other disaster in your country, please have your Government call Afghanistan, or perhaps Iraq for the BILLIONS in aid and relief instead of the USA OK! OH wait.......that's right, the USA is unparrelleled in the shear dollar amounts of cash and resources we give to the world each year......for instance, are you aware we gave $10 million to Afghanistan last year and were giving yet this year even though we knew Bin Laden was there???? Also, as far as the US being the worlds "police" yes, it has happened that way.........do you think we neccessarily want it that way???? The thing is, most other countries do not have the capabilities nor the recsources so, whom is called by the UN??? The USA!

As for Kyoto........that was not a well put together document from the start.......do the majority of Americans want an agreement such as Kyoto???? Yes! And you know what? With some refinement, I would bet that some measures are passed in the very near future! Along those lines, you blast us for what we do, How we do it & how we live........Thing is, our society and Government is set up to allow us to enjoy these things........I'm sorry certain past history and events have not allowed many other countries to enjoy such, but, rest assured that when alternatives are found, we, the USA will be among the first to adapt! Do we need to change our habits in some areas? Yes, we do and will, but, at least we are doing many things to preserve a lot of our natural resources and nature inside our country.....forests are replanted, wildlife preserved, etc.. Beyond that, do you even fathom how much of the worlds grain comes from the USA and how much of that grain is basicly GIVEN to other countries with nothing in return???????

You're jumping on us based upon what you know, and quite frankly, that's very little at least as far as the truth is concerned........funny thing, I've seen so many people from other countries bashing us for EVERYTHING WE DO.........but, even though we know of many things that could be said back to them........most of us don't, why, because against your beliefs, we like the other people of the world! We are carefree and easy going.........until someone defiles us, then we will defend ourselves and strike back at the responsible party! I'm sorry if you don't understand this.........you don't live here so I don't expect you to, but, by the same token, don't come here blasting us and telling us what we're doing wrong unless you have difinative truths and solutions.......otherwise you're not part of the solution, you're just part of the problem!



<< Sad, sad... >>


Yes, I agree......I do feel sorry for you for broadcasting only what you perseive to be truths but in fact know very little of!

 

[wyvrn]

I think this is a neccessary form of growth. Allow me to explain. First off, yes, $20 per week is considered ludicrous for most Americans -- but for a lot of really poor third world countries, this is a really good wage. If someone was living in a mud shack and making the equivalent of $10 per year -- $20 per month is fantastic. Don't judge wages based on US standards.

All these third world countries need to have some sort of inferstructure to be built first -- roads, buildings, power plants, sewage systems, schools etc. need to built. It's like in the game of Warcraft or StarCraft -- you need to build certain structures first -- before you can build other better structures.

In a way, we are taking advantage of cheap labor to sustain our growth -- but we are also helping the third world nation by building the necessary supporting structures that will enable them to grow out of third world status.

Take a look at some of the Asian countries that used to supply cheap labor -- Sinagpore, Taiwan, Korea. These once were very poor countries and US companies took advantage of cheap labor there. In the past, most people thought that anything made in these countries were cheap junk and "Buying Made in the USA" was considered a sign of quality. Now, look at these countries. They are all modernized. They have high standards of living. They produce high quality products.

These countries in turn now use "cheap labor" in other countries like Malaysia. Hopefully, Malaysia and other countries will improve and use "cheap" labor from other countries. As these countries improve, they start becoming "consumers" of goods as opposed to just "producers"

However, there are some countries that seem to remain stuck in third world status. And the reason for this is because they have corrupt or mismanaged (usually because they are heavily socialist or communist) governments.

Thank you for your understanding of business and economics. It seems that a lot of people think there needs to be a more utopian world where people from any country automatically have a high quality of life, but the fact that we went through these stages just like anyone else. Fact is, without American business, a lot of countries would be much poorer than they are now.

Kyoto...socialistic... no cooment.... maybe cause you are the greatest pollutor,....eh, it isnt worth it.

Yes we ARE. Why? Because we produce the most and can have the highest quality of life. If the treaty would have put the same measures on countries developing their infrastructure, we would have signed it. The treaty penalized the most industrialized nations (US) and let others (India, China, others) run regulation free. No matter how you look at it, this treaty WAS NOT EQUITABLE, and the US would have been foolish to sign it (which is what the rest of the world wanted, I am sure). You see, it is human nature to bring others down to your level instead of working on improving your own current standing. Too bad YOU cannot see the big picture, rudi.

 

[GL]

<< You just apologize yourself with others doing the same thing...great. As if that makes it allright?

Maybe that is a wonderful result of yor evolution, but maybe you should do better in the future in order to show other how to do it since you are the first nation in the world...

As for Afganistan goes....who are you fooling, you assist them because of fear of the reds, not cause you felt sympathetic toward Afgans. Same in Vietnam......how come then you dont assist Tibet when China invaded it? Fear...? >>



At what point has the U.S. ever hidden the fact they helped Afghanistan simply because of the Russian factor? How come your country didn't help Tibet when China invaded? Maybe if you answer this question, the answer for the American's reasons not to will become evident.



<< Come on people get real.....and I am not talking about support, I am talking about your potential victims. I know you have support. It is not about that
>>



Potential victims? The only victims so far have been on the American side...nothing potential about that. I have the utmost confidence in my neighbours to the south that they will not go after innocent people in this conflict. There may be collateral damage of course. But there was nothing collateral about the 5000 New Yorkers who died or the few hundred Pentagon workers.



<<
Kyoto...socialistic... no cooment.... maybe cause you are the greatest pollutor,....eh, it isnt worth it.

Sad, sad... >>



What's sad is somebody using this tragedy as a platform to spew political filth, and erroneous political trash at that.

I totally believe Tuesday's attack was unprovoked. I understand the resentment that certain people might have had for the U.S.. But there is no amount of anger or resentment great enough to serve as provocation for such a cowardly, and massive attack on innocent people who have as much to do with American foreign policy as you do.

 

[Stark]

I will respond to this later. Must work now.

Good points.

One quick question: Rudi, what is your religion and nationality?

 

[hungrypete]

<< I totally believe Tuesday's attack was unprovoked. I understand the resentment that certain people might have had for the U.S.. But there is no amount of anger or resentment great enough to serve as provocation for such a cowardly, and massive attack on innocent people who have as much to do with American foreign policy as you do. >>



This is the bottom line. The US did nothing that deserved such a radical and violent act by people who are too scared to reveal themselves. Rudi, whether you know it or not, you are being a terrorist sympathizer by justifying their actions. That is unacceptable.

 

[CichliSuite]

NO HE IS NOT. He is looking at it objectively, and it is this sort of objective view at WHY people are angry at us, that will STOP this from ever hapening again.


Our unilateral support for Israel is disgusting. We fund Israel approximately 35 times more than any other country. Is Israel suffering from a famine, drought, tornado? Or is it because we fund their military and sustain their ecnomy? Why ihe loyalty to Jews? Is ibecause they are nicely bankrolled here and exert their influence through government? Because we want a satellite state in the middle east?
Irs all of these things.

If you were up against a US funded country, whose very existence was predicated upon the unjust displacement of your people, would you not be angry at the US for not even recognizing your side? And would you have no other military choice aginst full-funded military (Israel), than, as a poor country, to engage in guerilla warfare?
Think.


I LOVE America, and that's why I'm trying to look for a SOLUTION, not simply a punching bag to vent anger.

That said, I do not discard the necessity of judicious military aggression.

 

[Optimus]

I think I should point out an important distinction that many people miss:


U.S. Foriegn Policy may well be the motivation for the anger Terrorists have against the U.S., BUT - that anger in no way justifies the cowardly attack on civilians.


So rudi's question "asked yourself why tuesday attack happened to you?" - it happened because some evil scum decided that their anger at the U.S. (which is a seperate discussion) justified taking 5000 innocent civilian lives.


So rudi - is you question really "Did anyone of U asked yourself why the terrorists are angry at you?" - then yes, we have. And that needs to be examined and discussed.


But as to why they attacked as they did?

There is no rational reason why!

 

[iamwiz82]

<< NO HE IS NOT. He is looking at it objectively, and it is this sort of objective view at WHY people are angry at us, that will STOP this from ever hapening again.


Our unilateral support for Israel is disgusting. We fund Israel approximately 35 times more than any other country. Is Israel suffering from a famine, drought, tornado? Or is it because we fund their military and sustain their ecnomy? Why ihe loyalty to Jews? Is ibecause they are nicely bankrolled here and exert their influence through government? Because we want a satellite state in the middle east?
Irs all of these things. >>



Uh oh, an illiterate anti-semite!



<<
If you were up against a US funded country, whose very existence was predicated upon the unjust displacement of your people, would you not be angry at the US for not even recognizing your side? And would you have no other military choice aginst full-funded military (Israel), than, as a poor country, to engage in guerilla warfare?
Think.
>>



If i lived in palestine, i would be damned happy about the US being with Isreal. The US is the only thing stopping Isreal from destroying Palestine. Maybe teh US funded it, but now they are trying to stop it.



<<
I LOVE America, and that's why I'm trying to look for a SOLUTION, not simply a punching bag to vent anger.

That said, I do not discard the necessity of judicious military aggression. >>

 

[Vadatajs]

<< Bump....been saying this all along....but I am being called un- American, because I am informed? I will not and do not justify the acts in DC and NY, but the US needs to tell us the truth, both sides of the story. The attacks were in no way unprovoked. If some of you would watch the news more often, you would see that the US has been in bed with many of the now enemies of of the states in th e past, when they were doing a job that was for the good of America. >>



same here