Did anyone of U asked yourself why tuesday attack happened to you?

rudi

Member
Nov 11, 1999
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Let me explain...

i am not supporting the way it was done...no absolutely not, but there is a wider and broader picture to see and i think you dont see it.

Do you know that there is maybe evidence of Osama bin ladin being financed and trained by CIA when former soviet union attacked Afganistan? He has the knowledge from your operatives. What does that say to you?

Next, do you think that your great civilization was created on your flooor? How about exploiting (beyond fair limits)cheap labour force and nature in third world countries? Does anyone think about that? Do you think that this fact does not upset people around the world?

Maybe no one of you know, how delicated is your support to Israel? And that your military industry, because of its bussines aproach is harming local balances and thus leading them to you as guilty party for their war? They are not stupid, they know from where the support comes. You also cannot deny that your military ind. IS seeking new markets to sell....and arms are not friuts, they are produced to kill people.

Another thing, attack was purely symbolical and it is sad that we came so far that we are witnessing such terrible actions. And it is not an attack on democracy as such but attack on your foreign policy and on your mind in order to see how horrible is when someone attacks you.

I expres my sadness to those who are victims of this attack and wish and hope that you will not just rearm yourself even more but that you will try to realize that maybe not everyone wants to be american or have american version of democracy.

Punish those who are guilty by all means but be sure you got the right one and that you will learn something from this.

With respect,

Rudi

 
May 16, 2000
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Very nice Rudi. Hope you're wearing your flame retardant underwear for when the blind nationalists read this, but I appreciate it anyway.
 

Zwingle

Golden Member
Jan 1, 2001
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Bump....been saying this all along....but I am being called un- American, because I am informed? I will not and do not justify the acts in DC and NY, but the US needs to tell us the truth, both sides of the story. The attacks were in no way unprovoked. If some of you would watch the news more often, you would see that the US has been in bed with many of the now enemies of of the states in th e past, when they were doing a job that was for the good of America.
 

MikeO

Diamond Member
Jan 17, 2001
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<< Do you know that there is maybe evidence of Osama bin ladin being financed and trained by CIA >>



"maybe evidence" :confused: :confused:




<< Do you think that this fact does not upset people around the world? >>



Maybe, but that's no reason for attacking thousands of innocent people.
 

Pennstate

Diamond Member
Oct 14, 1999
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Yes, it's because we did a half-ass job at afghanistan during the russian invasion. We did a half-ass job in Iraq. American military's intervention gives hope to many oppressed citizens of those countries, but we been pulling the carpet under them once we have achieved our shortsighted agenda. The US need to get back to its WWII form, install democratic governments.
 
May 16, 2000
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ummm, exactly why do you think America has a right to tell other people what to do? I'm not saying democratic government isn't the best we have on the planet, but people have the right to govern themselves, even incorrectly.

It's that kind of thinking that made us the target of terrorism in the first place.
 

rudder

Lifer
Nov 9, 2000
19,441
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Do you know that there is maybe evidence of Osama bin ladin being financed and trained by CIA when former soviet union attacked Afganistan? He has the knowledge from your operatives. What does that say to you?

Really? no Sh!t? This has been known for years.
 

sciencewhiz

Diamond Member
Jun 30, 2000
5,885
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<< Yes, it's because we did a half-ass job at afghanistan during the russian invasion. We did a half-ass job in Iraq... The US need to get back to its WWII form, install democratic governments. >>



Do you really think that killing Bin Laden and getting rid of the taliban will stop these type of acts?
 

Pliablemoose

Lifer
Oct 11, 1999
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<< Another thing, attack was purely symbolical >>



Quite a symbol, we all noticed it. I really would have preferred that they blow up the Statue of Liberty, with some advance warning so it could be evacuated. It would have sent the same message. But I guess that wouldn't have been as symbolic as killing 5,000 civilians on U.S. soil.

Anyone with an understanding of the U.S. public would have realized it was the worst possible move they could make, it's bumped the approval rating of a president that wouldn't have been elected without the electoral college, to over 80%, and brought together a nation that sits up and notices things like defective tires on our cars, and places such value on human life that we're arguing about when is a clump of cells a human life and afforded protection.

To allow us to continue our internal bickering might have been a more appropriate fate for our country. This has served to clear our collective heads & re-prioritize our national goals, first & foremost should be our safety as a nation, and the safety of our citizens.
 

rudi

Member
Nov 11, 1999
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I repeat...it is horrible way to do it...in fact it is no way to do it, but will you try to see how big is the whole thing?
 

csiro

Golden Member
May 31, 2001
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I think it probably would have been for the better if the US had not helped Afghanistan when the Soviet invaded. It's would have been better of as a communist bloc country right now.
 

Pliablemoose

Lifer
Oct 11, 1999
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rudi,

The problem with your reasoning is that it's like a kidnapping where the victim has already died and the kidnappers are still asking for the ransom. Our country will take a thousandfold more casualities rather than change anything now.

So the world has crazies that are willing to spend human life on suicide missions, our country feels that if you're willing to die for a cause, we'll just help you along you path a little more quickly than you've intended.

Can suicide missions by terrorists cause more loss of life & infrastructure? Of course. Will we turn the countries harboring these individuals into a parking lot? Most assuredly.






 

iamwiz82

Lifer
Jan 10, 2001
30,772
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i love how the rest of the world bitches at us about foriegn policy, when half the time it is the UN forcing us to send in 10x the troops than all of Europe.



<< Next, do you think that your great civilization was created on your flooor? How about exploiting (beyond fair limits)cheap labour force and nature in third world countries? Does anyone think about that? Do you think that this fact does not upset people around the world? >>



hey, pull the tag off of your shirt and check it asshole. Last time i looked, mine said made in the USA, not in China. Europe clammers for fashion just as much as the US. Hell, i see more kids in europe wearing Nike and Tommy than in America.




<< And it is not an attack on democracy as such but attack on your foreign policy and on your mind in order to see how horrible is when someone attacks you. >>



Please, give me an example. And dont say Iraq, either. Iraq attacked a nation, and the US retaliated, just as we retaliated against Japan attacking us, or Germany attacking the world.

Every person who has used this the excuse of foriegn policy has given bad or no examples. You are all on the "anti america" bandwagon. So please, since you are from Solvenia(bastion of freedom that it is), stop all ties wtih America, stop all trade with America, and attempt to survive.

America looks out for its own neck whenever possible, as do all nations. We secure oil which we need to survive, much as the rest of the world does. Russia, UK, France, they all look out for themselves first.

I find it funny that all the anti-americanism is coming from Solvenia, Bulgary, and Hungary. Jealousy runs deep, i would assume
 

StormRider

Diamond Member
Mar 12, 2000
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<< Another fact: Do you think that your great civilization grew just from your work? Or maybe you shold know that great procentage of all that extra profit comes from megacorporations who are exploiting (beyond fair limits) cheap labour and nature resources in third world countries where people are working like 12 hours shift with no union to defend their rights. And all this for like less 20$ per week? Do u think that this makes people happy? You are not alone in this, that is a problem of all capitalist countries. The third world will rise if this trend of unequal distribution of wealth is continued.
>>



I think this is a neccessary form of growth. Allow me to explain. First off, yes, $20 per week is considered ludicrous for most Americans -- but for a lot of really poor third world countries, this is a really good wage. If someone was living in a mud shack and making the equivalent of $10 per year -- $20 per month is fantastic. Don't judge wages based on US standards.

All these third world countries need to have some sort of inferstructure to be built first -- roads, buildings, power plants, sewage systems, schools etc. need to built. It's like in the game of Warcraft or StarCraft -- you need to build certain structures first -- before you can build other better structures.

In a way, we are taking advantage of cheap labor to sustain our growth -- but we are also helping the third world nation by building the necessary supporting structures that will enable them to grow out of third world status.

Take a look at some of the Asian countries that used to supply cheap labor -- Sinagpore, Taiwan, Korea. These once were very poor countries and US companies took advantage of cheap labor there. In the past, most people thought that anything made in these countries were cheap junk and "Buying Made in the USA" was considered a sign of quality. Now, look at these countries. They are all modernized. They have high standards of living. They produce high quality products.

These countries in turn now use "cheap labor" in other countries like Malaysia. Hopefully, Malaysia and other countries will improve and use "cheap" labor from other countries. As these countries improve, they start becoming "consumers" of goods as opposed to just "producers"

However, there are some countries that seem to remain stuck in third world status. And the reason for this is because they have corrupt or mismanaged (usually because they are heavily socialist or communist) governments.


 

Cyberian

Diamond Member
Jun 17, 2000
9,999
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<< Did anyone of U asked yourself why tuesday attack happened to you?
>>


Yes, Thank You.

This has been discussed ad nauseam recently and I think perhaps further talk should be tabled until the current situation is resolved. I believe that emotions would get in the way of a completely rational discussion at this time.
 

Pliablemoose

Lifer
Oct 11, 1999
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Of course there's always this to redeem Afghanistan's morality: world's largest illicit opium producer, surpassing Burma (potential production in 1999 - 1,670 metric tons; cultivation in 1999 - 51,500 hectares, a 23% increase over 1998); a major source of hashish; increasing number of heroin-processing laboratories being set up in the country; major political factions in the country profit from drug trade
 

hungrypete

Diamond Member
Aug 4, 2000
3,001
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<< Of course there's always this to redeem Afghanistan's morality: world's largest illicit opium producer, surpassing Burma (potential production in 1999 - 1,670 metric tons; cultivation in 1999 - 51,500 hectares, a 23% increase over 1998); a major source of hashish; increasing number of heroin-processing laboratories being set up in the country; major political factions in the country profit from drug trade >>



And Afghanistan seems more than happy to be an international hideout for religious thugs with AK47s and bags of poppies. There would be an impact on the war on heroin.
 

Texmaster

Banned
Jun 5, 2001
5,445
0
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<< i am not supporting the way it was done...no absolutely not, but there is a wider and broader picture to see and i think you dont see it.

Do you know that there is maybe evidence of Osama bin ladin being financed and trained by CIA when former soviet union attacked Afganistan? He has the knowledge from your operatives. What does that say to you?
>>



That he should be thanking us.



<< Next, do you think that your great civilization was created on your flooor? How about exploiting (beyond fair limits)cheap labour force and nature in third world countries? Does anyone think about that? Do you think that this fact does not upset people around the world? >>




Name one other coutry in the world that didn't use slaves at some point. My God what a weak arguement.



<< Maybe no one of you know, how delicated is your support to Israel? >>




Now more than ever.




<< And that your military industry, because of its bussines aproach is harming local balances and thus leading them to you as guilty party for their war? >>




Of course no examples What a shocker.



<< They are not stupid, they know from where the support comes. You also cannot deny that your military ind. IS seeking new markets to sell....and arms are not friuts, they are produced to kill people. >>



Right and France, Russia, China and others who sell arms are just squeaky clean. You are simply another American Basher.



<< Another thing, attack was purely symbolical and it is sad that we came so far that we are witnessing such terrible actions. And it is not an attack on democracy as such but attack on your foreign policy and on your mind in order to see how horrible is when someone attacks you. >>



And what about attacks in other coutries like Italy and Zimbabwe are these ok too? You are nothing but an apologist for terrorsits.



<< I expres my sadness to those who are victims of this attack and wish and hope that you will not just rearm yourself even more but that you will try to realize that maybe not everyone wants to be american or have american version of democracy. >>



If you truely felt remorse you wouldn't be posting this garbage giving crediance to these attacks.




<< Punish those who are guilty by all means but be sure you got the right one and that you will learn something from this. >>



and who is guilty in your warped little mind? Terrorists come from villages so therefore the villagers should be targeted. States that harbor terrorists should be attacked as their people allow their government to harbor these terrorists.




<< With respect,

Rudi
>>




Please. Respect would be respecting the fact that there is NO justificiation for these attacks and your sorry attempt at giving them validity shows your Anti-American Spirit rings true.
 

rudi

Member
Nov 11, 1999
58
0
0
I really wont reply to all those post which cannot give me an constructive answer...really. With such aroggant response with which you just show how strongly you fit in typical " american cowboy" image.

As for development goes...yes stormrider i agree. An economical debate is much more complex, but there is proof that in your ideology there is one major flaw. There just isnt enough earth to consume 1,2 or 5 billions of "american driven" people. Here i want to point out the natural resources. We must accept natural limits in our limitless need of having more. And YOu folks are prime example of how you are not capable of doing this (Kyoto protocol). It is sad fact, but if there is not a change in your consumer philosophy....world will colapse. It just that simple. Of course unless you find difrent planet or other technological solutions.

For part of your goverment war is bussines (especially when president´s Bush campaign was greatly finaced by military sector)and many generals are so enthuziastic about new weapons as we are on computers or overclocking. Do you know how dangerous that is? Think, think...


Yeah, dont get me wrong...i understand that you are angry...and you have all rights to be but i just want from you to realize some issues involved here.

p.s.
And one more thing...if you think that your place of birth matters, than you are really mental...
 

hungrypete

Diamond Member
Aug 4, 2000
3,001
0
0


<< I really wont reply to all those post which cannot give me an constructive answer...really. With such aroggant response with which you just show how strongly you fit in typical " american cowboy" image. As for development goes...yes stormrider i agree. An economical debate is much more complex, but there is proof that in your ideology there is one major flaw. There just isnt enough earth to consume 1,2 or 5 billions of "american driven" people. Here i want to point out the natural resources. We must accept natural limits in our limitless need of having more. And YOu folks are prime example of how you are not capable of doing this (Kyoto protocol). It is sad fact, but if there is not a change in your consumer philosophy....world will colapse. It just that simple. Of course unless you find difrent planet or other technological solutions. For part of your goverment war is bussines (especially when president´s Bush campaign was greatly finaced by military sector)and many generals are so enthuziastic about new weapons as we are on computers or overclocking. Do you know how dangerous that is? Think, think... Yeah, dont get me wrong...i understand that you are angry...and you have all rights to be but i just want from you to realize some issues involved here. p.s. And one more thing...if you think that your place of birth matters, than you are really mental... >>



See Sig.
Go Away.
 

Oalex

Senior member
Jan 12, 2001
290
0
0
iamwiz82:


<< I find it funny that all the anti-americanism is coming from Solvenia, Bulgary, and Hungary. Jealousy runs deep, i would assume >>




Yeh right, I guess the terrorist where from those countries. Check you words. Don1 talk out of your a$$. Actually I've spoken with AMERICANS whom are not blined by the morning that have their nagative opinion on US foriegh policies and I spoken with Hungarians that are very pro-american. Ofcourse the erlier is less (patriotism).

Any way I think that all other countries can be more objective on the issue (understandably). And the main thing is right now to get those responsible.

And afther words I (everyone and I guess even you) will be very interested in the exact reason that they (the Osamas or whoever did this) will give for their crime. And don't tell me that you honestly expect them to say that they hate freedom and that is why they did it. When we get to that it might give us a thought. I just hope that they will be asked that question before being executed or we will never really know.
 

StormRider

Diamond Member
Mar 12, 2000
8,324
2
0


<< This has been discussed ad nauseam recently and I think perhaps further talk should be tabled until the current situation is resolved. I believe that emotions would get in the way of a completely rational discussion at this time.
>>



Yes, right now we need to heal and take care of our victims and bring justice to the cowardly criminals that committed this act.

For those who are worried that the US is only thinking about vengence, I saw an interview with a US general on ABC news a couple of nights ago. I think his name was "Hoover" or "Horner" or something like that. He mentioned a two pronged attack on terrorism. One was to destroy all terrorist cells that exist. And the second was to look at what we could do to change the hopeless conditions that seem to cause men to want to become terrorists.