Diaries of the Noob Mechanic: Fuzzydunlop's '85 MR2

[FuzzyDunlop]

Anything dotted is pulley side.

Whats a good method of cleaning this crap up?

 

[BUTCH1]

Whats a good method of cleaning this crap up?

I used brake cleaner when I rebuilt my 1.9L ford although I guess there is probably a specific cleaner out there, I think MM oil would do well too..

 

[SuperSix]

You can use a BRASS wire wheel at a slow speed to clean up the pistons once you remove the old rings.

*I* would get the heads check for flatness, I don't trust flatedges, especially if you ever plan to bolt a turbo on it. You should replace the valve seals as well, if it has them, I am not familiar with those motors)

It's really not that expensive to get the heads refurbished along with the block.

 

[BUTCH1]

You can use a BRASS wire wheel at a slow speed to clean up the pistons once you remove the old rings.

*I* would get the heads check for flatness, I don't trust flatedges, especially if you ever plan to bolt a turbo on it. You should replace the valve seals as well, if it has them, I am not familiar with those motors)

It's really not that expensive to get the heads refurbished along with the block.

That's the route I used when I had my head off, machine shop charged $140 for clean, lap valves, repair valve seat and check for flatness..

 

[FuzzyDunlop]

You can use a BRASS wire wheel at a slow speed to clean up the pistons once you remove the old rings.

*I* would get the heads check for flatness, I don't trust flatedges, especially if you ever plan to bolt a turbo on it. You should replace the valve seals as well, if it has them, I am not familiar with those motors)

It's really not that expensive to get the heads refurbished along with the block.

There wont be any MAJOR performance upgrades to this engine. It is whats known as a 3 Rib block vs a 7 rib block. This 3 rib cant handle stresses beyond the 160-170hp range. The 7 rib can safely go up to 280-300.
This is basically just an edjumacational endeavor at this point. A budget rebuild just to learn, and test my capabilities as a green mechanic: hopefully after this I wont be so Green!
This engine wont be pushed very far power wise.
As far as flat-edges go: why dont you trust them? It worked for the toyota engineers in 1985, why cant it work for us today? According to my repair manual, my head and block are both within spec for flatness.

I have some brass wire wheels of different shapes I can use. Ive just been timid to use them because I thought they may be too aggressive. But like you say: at LOW speeds they probably wouldnt cause that much harm.

Parts ordered/too order so far:
Valve seals
Cam seals
Gaskets all around
Head bolts
Push rod bushings
Piston Rings

According to the BGB (repair manual) I can reuse the push rod nuts.
As far as machining goes: if everything measures up to spec then I dont see the reason to do it. Besides, I may not have this engine for very long anyways.

 

[Pulsar]

There wont be any MAJOR performance upgrades to this engine. It is whats known as a 3 Rib block vs a 7 rib block. This 3 rib cant handle stresses beyond the 160-170hp range. The 7 rib can safely go up to 280-300.
This is basically just an edjumacational endeavor at this point. A budget rebuild just to learn, and test my capabilities as a green mechanic: hopefully after this I wont be so Green!
This engine wont be pushed very far power wise.
As far as flat-edges go: why dont you trust them? It worked for the toyota engineers in 1985, why cant it work for us today? According to my repair manual, my head and block are both within spec for flatness.

I have some brass wire wheels of different shapes I can use. Ive just been timid to use them because I thought they may be too aggressive. But like you say: at LOW speeds they probably wouldnt cause that much harm.

Parts ordered/too order so far:
Valve seals
Cam seals
Gaskets all around
Head bolts
Push rod bushings
Piston Rings

According to the BGB (repair manual) I can reuse the push rod nuts.
As far as machining goes: if everything measures up to spec then I dont see the reason to do it. Besides, I may not have this engine for very long anyways.

I would strongly consider ordering rod bolts and main bearing cap bolts as well. We assemble thousands of engines daily here, and if we have to torque any of those bolts more than 2 times, we throw them away. Their torque is very very close to their yield point (again, on the engines here) so it's just a quality issue that we throw them out. YMMV.

 

[SuperSix]

There wont be any MAJOR performance upgrades to this engine. It is whats known as a 3 Rib block vs a 7 rib block. This 3 rib cant handle stresses beyond the 160-170hp range. The 7 rib can safely go up to 280-300.
This is basically just an edjumacational endeavor at this point. A budget rebuild just to learn, and test my capabilities as a green mechanic: hopefully after this I wont be so Green!
This engine wont be pushed very far power wise.
As far as flat-edges go: why dont you trust them? It worked for the toyota engineers in 1985, why cant it work for us today? According to my repair manual, my head and block are both within spec for flatness.

I am uses to forced induction motors primarily and even with a decent flat edge - it could have a small variance that will manifest itself under boost. That, and the flat edges that Toyota/professional machine shops are much more "flat" than most consumer models.

I have some brass wire wheels of different shapes I can use. Ive just been timid to use them because I thought they may be too aggressive. But like you say: at LOW speeds they probably wouldnt cause that much harm.

Brass is much softer than the pistons/steel, so it's hard to damage steel with them.

Parts ordered/too order so far:
Valve seals
Cam seals
Gaskets all around
Head bolts
Push rod bushings
Piston Rings

According to the BGB (repair manual) I can reuse the push rod nuts.
As far as machining goes: if everything measures up to spec then I dont see the reason to do it. Besides, I may not have this engine for very long anyways.

If you don't plan on the engine running for a long time, then you can rebuild without machine work I suppose. A junkyard motor will end up costing more than machining this one and getting it right the first time though.

 

[exdeath]

As far as machining goes: if everything measures up to spec then I dont see the reason to do it.

Negative. Cylinders, even if they measure round and don't have a ridge, need to be honed at a minimum. If you put new rings in it now, it will be worse than what it was before you took it apart.

Rings and cylinder bore must wear to each other to seal correctly.

If you skip vital machine work now, you may be throwing away all your new rings, gaskets, etc, and tearing down again before you finish off a tank of gas.

 

[SuperSix]

Negative. Cylinders, even if they measure round and don't have a ridge, need to be honed at a minimum. If you put new rings in it now, it will be worse than what it was before you took it apart.

Rings and cylinder bore must wear to each other to seal correctly.

If you skip vital machine work now, you may be throwing away all your new rings, gaskets, etc, and tearing down again before you finish off a tank of gas.

Yep, I forgot to mention you need to at least hone the cylinders.

I'll be that after a good hone, you have too much piston-to-wall clearance. Maybe .0025 - .005 too much.

 

[JCH13]

Yep, I forgot to mention you need to at least hone the cylinders.

I'll be that after a good hone, you have too much piston-to-wall clearance. Maybe .0025 - .005 too much.

Albeit?

 

[SuperSix]

Albeit?

I'll bet that after a good hone, you have too much piston-to-wall clearance. Maybe .0025 - .005 too much.

 

[FuzzyDunlop]

ok ok ok. I give.
Will drop the block tomorrow, take it all in to get machined.
Geeze.
This way if something DOES go wrong after the build you guys cant say "see, I told you so!"
hehe!
My friend from NAPA will be confused that I'm ignoring his advise, but Ill just tell him that its for my own personal satisfaction and confidence.

That, and it'll look pretty too.

 

[JCH13]

I'll bet that after a good hone, you have too much piston-to-wall clearance. Maybe .0025 - .005 too much.

So much more with the sense making

I'd bet that too.

 

[slag]

ok ok ok. I give.
Will drop the block tomorrow, take it all in to get machined.
Geeze.
This way if something DOES go wrong after the build you guys cant say "see, I told you so!"
hehe!
My friend from NAPA will be confused that I'm ignoring his advise, but Ill just tell him that its for my own personal satisfaction and confidence.

That, and it'll look pretty too.

And the experience you gained is invaluable. What you learn here is applicable to every internal combustion engine, give or take. Two strokes are a little different, but the basic principles are identical. After this, you will need to rebuild the transmission just to show you can do it.

 

[Ferzerp]

Took me a bit long to respond. I've handled aspects of assembly and machining of Ford engines for about 10 years now. All of these (including the Shelbies) use an oil pressure switch. It's on, or off, with nothing in between.

In fact we used to jack in an extra sensor - an actual pressure sensor, into the head on the shelby to get more exact results, but that died out around the time the '07 was launched.

The on/off switch is less complicated and expensive than a sensor, and I'd be surprised if any high volume manufacturer is still using a true sensor (unless they had some specific reason they were forced to do so).

My Challenger has a true sensor. (Or for some odd reason fakes it really well with the digital readout)

 

[FuzzyDunlop]

And the experience you gained is invaluable. What you learn here is applicable to every internal combustion engine, give or take. Two strokes are a little different, but the basic principles are identical. After this, you will need to rebuild the transmission just to show you can do it.

I know already that I can. Just dont want to spend the dough on the press. Dont you need like a 20 tonne press? Which would run a guy about $1000.00
Ehhh.... worth it spend that much just to see if I can do it? Would need bigger garage too. I'd buy a plasma cutter before buying a press.

My Challenger has a true sensor. (Or for some odd reason fakes it really well with the digital readout)

The guage on my dash flutters while Im driving - it may be a true sensor, but I doubt its at all accurate, or even useful for that matter.

 

[slag]

I didn't need a press when I rebuilt the transmission on my explorer. Just a really clean area and lots of ATF. Didn't even use a transmission holder.

I did use a depth micrometer and other various measuring tools though to gauge the amount of shims I would need.

 

[JCH13]

NO EXCUSES!

 

[Ferzerp]

Here is an older, lower model one with the same display. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSo8NcIczd8

Kind of neat.

 

[SuperSix]

NO EXCUSES!

On sale!
http://www.harborfreight.com/20-ton-shop-press-32879.html

 

[exdeath]

I know already that I can. Just dont want to spend the dough on the press. Dont you need like a 20 tonne press? Which would run a guy about $1000.00
Ehhh.... worth it spend that much just to see if I can do it? Would need bigger garage too. I'd buy a plasma cutter before buying a press.

Harbor Freight has a 20 ton press with arbor plates for around $200.

You'd still need a set of gear and bearing pullers and step plates and other misc tools though.

 

[FuzzyDunlop]

dangit. If only I lived in 'merica.

 

[jlee]

dangit. If only I lived in 'merica.

You should move to AZ.

 

[FuzzyDunlop]

You should move to AZ.

Maybe someday when I've made my millions and retire.

I take it that you're enjoying it there so far?

 

[jlee]

Maybe someday when I've made my millions and retire.

I take it that you're enjoying it there so far?

I'm not there (again) yet; just my Subaru. I'll be back October 12 for good.