What they should have done is created a non cash mode, and this. That way, anyone who even remotely considers cash as a means of buying a handicap should play on the 3rd mode while anyone who does not want any type of handicap can play in the non cash mode. This allows blizzard to make money off the chumps who want a day job playing D3 while killing any incentive for gold farmers and gold sellers to create a black market in the non cash mode since no one there wants to spend or make cash anyway.
Modelworks
Lifer
- Feb 22, 2007
- 16,240
- 7
- 76
I never understood why people bought their way through games anyway. I thought the object was fun and if it isn't fun then why play it. Are people really that obsessed ? I hear people say they just bought this item or that because they didn't feel like playing to get it, it takes too much time. That sounds like work not fun to me. What is the point to having an item that you didn't earn ? Maybe blizzard should just make it easy for all these people that want to buy their way through the game, sell the game for $250 and with that you character has every item and stat they can get in the game with instant max level, that seems to be what players want. Nobody apparently plays for fun anymore.
Well yeah, I don't get it. Functionally you can do exactly what you claim to want to do with or without an in game AH of any sort. There is nothing preventing you from farming for your item forever and instead of trading or selling the incidental items you get, you could just destroy it all. It is your choice.
Maybe I need to read between the lines. Is it simply that you suspect the existence of an in game cash AH will cause blizzard to adjust the item drop percentages to make it take 100X as long to farm? I don't think that is even possible, given how the economy of diablo 2 worked (or didn't work, depending on point of view). Trying to get the perfect suffix/prefix combo on the perfect item in diablo 2 was like trying to win lotto, and if you had to do it without ever trading with another player, well good luck to you.
Or is it just that you like the item for item trading rather than trading for a currency in an auction house where everything is equalized? As a buyer, the AH is a huge plus, you can easily see who is willing to sell the item you want at the lowest price and decide to buy or not. Without it, you could easily be taken advantage of or ripped off by a seller who has a fairly common item that you just think is rare or hard to get. I could see why such a seller would be against an AH, as it would make it much harder to rip people off.
Did you read the entire thread?
Hardcore mode will be non-cash.
A non-cash non-hardcore mode would be a huge joke. The twinkers would go out of their way to buy the best gear for cash on the "non-cash" server through ebay or whatever outside sites they use, just to spite people. Blizzard can't do anything about that.
I could make the analogy of "why buy a car when you can always walk?". Some people just don't have the time to commit to the parts they dont' like so they buy their way out of it. What you don't understand is that a game has parts.. there's a part that some may feel is work and there are parts that's fun. Only problem is that you have to work to get to the fun part.
I didn't read the whole thread. Why? Did someone already mentioned this alternative?
I thought hardcore mode still has cash transactions for gold.
Modelworks
Lifer
- Feb 22, 2007
- 16,240
- 7
- 76
If you are playing a game and it becomes work or something you don't like then there is something wrong with the game. I don't play any games , not 1 that I feel is work or something that I have to just endure to make it to a part that is fun, my time is more important than that. The problem is the games mechanics that need to be fixed not people paying so they can skip the bad parts.
Then so be it... I didn't say it would completely eliminate it but it would remove far more transactions that would occur if it was completely illegal since most of it will be going on in the cash legal severs. Why risk a ban selling on a server people don't want to buy from when you can farm and sell on a server that's legal?
Players get bored, quit or want to quit, so they sell their whole account and or all their stuff. They don't care about risking a ban at that point because they don't expect to play again. I saw this all the time in world of warcraft, where selling was accounts was completely against the ToS.
Funny part would be when those same players came back a month later and rolled (or paid a company to powerlevel) new characters, but that is another topic...
edit: BTW yes, I mentioned that hardcore would be cash-free earlier.
gorcorps
aka Brandon
- Jul 18, 2004
- 30,741
- 456
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The game will be what you make of it. Having an auction house will only turn it into "work" if you let it. Take the original D2. We already know how it plays and we know it's awesome. Now add on an auction house to it that accepts real money. In your opinion, does the game of D2 suddenly become work even though nothing in the game actually CHANGED... only the ability to buy items was made legal?
I guess I'm curious what your concern is. Are you saying that because of the auction house, you're worried the game has been designed around that and will feel like work? Or are you saying the game itself would be fine, but somehow just the addition of the shop itself will make it work? The former is a valid concern, but I don't see how the later is an issue if you simply ignore it. It's not like an MMO where you're constantly surrounded by people who have taken advantage of a potential "broken" system. It's very easy to start a game with friends or others that haven't bought anything. So the game itself isn't any different.
Apparently it doesn't, to protect people from losing a real money investment by some in game happenstance.
More cynical views would be that in hardcore mode, a players death means the destruction of potentially valuable gear, and thus the loss of associated microtransactions. Since it's a fixed fee and not percentage based, it's in their interest to have high volume, low cost sales. A rarity of gear means higher prices and less transactions.
Also, the most cynical view of all is it may prevent some distraught lunatic who just lost a few hundred bucks or more in gear from setting himself and/or activisions central office on fire because he hit a lag spike and died.
KaOTiK
Lifer
- Feb 5, 2001
- 10,877
- 8
- 81
No, I doubt Blizzard would tamper with drop rates unless something was obviously wrong, that doesn't worry me. I think having an AH is great and needed and makes it so you can find what you want easier and without having spam look for it.
My issue is just with everything having an actual money value. That will alter the game so much, and not just the game, but how people play it. Money changes people, and not for the better in general and I don't see it ending up well in an environment like this.
I wish I could explain it, but it really is something that either you get or don't. I understand why you don't but I do not expect you to understand why for me and that's ok cause I can not really voice it, it is just something that clicks if you do get it.
Anyways, it doesn't matter to me. I'm not going to play D3. I was already kinda iffy from stuff I've seen and the art style to start with. But the always online/no mods/this buy/sell stuff just put out any inkling of interest I still had left and that is fine with me in all honesty, many other games I am looking forward too.
Well you're again looking it in terms of "it's the game that's the problem" when you have yet to consider "it's the person that's the problem". A game like WoW and D3 requires a lot of time and dedication, that IS how the game works. Now you have 2 people, one a teenager with no life or day job and has no problem with 8 hour a day grinds to get to max level in a week while you got mr casual gamer who has only 1 hr a night after a long grueling day at work trying to play catch up. It's not the games fault one person has more time to get ahead in it than the other. So the problem is and always be with the person and it's this disparity that will always create a black market(if it's illegal) for virtual goods.
edit: To add to my original analogy. You got a bunch of friends driving to a local[ok not so local] destination 10 hours way for a weekend trip... You can't take the day off work and decide to meet them there by taking a flight. The drive there is part of the trip but you skipped it because you just dont' have time but you still got to enjoy the endgame without having to spend the 10 hours.
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Cynical views indeed. This is blizzard, they are known for putting out quality games that people play for years after release. I seriously doubt they would sacrifice their reputation by releasing diablo 3 based around forcing people to constantly buy and sell gear for cash. I suspect it'll be a minor part of the game, maybe 10% of the players will participate. It'll make some big headlines when a super rare item sells for $1000 for the first time, but I doubt it will impact the game play.
Well, this is nothing new, I hope you realize that. Take WoW as an example. A quick google for "buy wow gold" and I see sites claiming $1 for 1000 gold. Assuming that is a valid exchange rate, you can easily extrapolate and see that for $.01 you can buy 10 gold. From there, you can put a dollar value on every single item available in the WoW auction house.
Rare blue drop for 100g? $.10
Epic BOE world drop for 6000g? $6
Super expensive best in slot crafted item from raid mats for 50,000g? $50
Just because the true costs of the items is obfuscated from you through the lack of easy exchange of WoW gold and real money doesn't mean those items lack real cash value. Every virtual item in every game has some level of value, although admittedly most of the easy to obtain ones are far less than 1 penny in value.
Blizzard isn't changing the game, it is simply opening your eyes so you can see the real costs of spending that virtual in game money.
Well, it's both. I believe the game WILL be changed to suit this. How could it not? This is a business, a publicly held company with a legal fiduciary duty to maximize profits for it's shareholders. If the AH even slightly influences game design, it's tainted. I suspect the influence will be minor at first and become more and more insidious over time as players adapt to it and the cash starts flowing.
But I also have the other concern. The mere presence of a potential monetary value to your items and your time cheapens the experience. Perhaps "making it into work" isn't the best description, as that's only one facet of it. Getting a rare object used to be it's intrinsic reward on it's own. Now it has a dollar value attached. Dollars are real. The game isn't just a fantasy virtual world anymore when the stuff in it has real world value. It's not a cool set of armor when it's potentially money in your pocket. It taints the fun of playing the game to it's core. It's crossing a line that I don't want crossed.
We can't possibly know what's going to happen at this point unless a massively popular game has gone the same route that we can use for example.
For one thing, gold was pretty much useless in D2 wasn't it? So unless there is a gold sink, it's going to be worthless in lieu of real dollars. I have a feeling no one is going to make money selling gold. So I suspect at least for the endgame that everything will be under cash transactions as someone mentioned in a zero sum setting where you buy & sell in roughly the same value amounts which kills item for item trading since placing cash values on them creates more accuracy in terms of valuing them. Why trade a sword for a bow when you can sell your sword and buy a bow and change if your sword is worth roughly a bit more. I'm sure Blizzard figured this out already which is why they're going to make buttloads off the endgame.
The other thing is that by taking the handcuffs off so to speak, everyone[read: the entire population of D3 players] will be forced to use cash transactions for the endgame because it'll become the "norm". If you hadn't noticed, everyone tend to follow what others are doing in the end game... we're all sheep. That is why you have zones in MMOs that are practically empty because everyone is somewhere else so you may as well be there too. Everyone buys their items for cash in the auction house, you figure that's the best way to do it so you do it too.
In order for this not to impact the game, gold has to be pegged to the dollar as if it were real currency.
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KaOTiK
Lifer
- Feb 5, 2001
- 10,877
- 8
- 81
I understand all to well wows gold market, I sold roughly 2million gold in the game
Thing is, the overwhelming majority of the game community wouldn't use those sites due to the shadyness of the whole thing or even know of them outsides of some spam in the trade channel. Bringing it straight out legit and every single person can and probably will take advantage of it is bad. Before while the people willing to bend/break rules did get ahead it wasn't that much of a big deal cause they were few and it didn't taint the game itself. It was basically done in moderation next to the amount of people who did not do it, but the key with moderation is not going overboard with it, like this new model is.
Either way, I'm done and wont reply here again, we can't see eye to eye and I don't wish to go on.
ImpulsE69
Lifer
- Jan 8, 2010
- 14,946
- 1,077
- 126
You hit the nail on the head. I only see one solution to this problem. In addition to online only, people can only play it online when I'M online. This makes the playing field fair for me. It's a win win (for me).
You hit the nail on the head. I only see one solution to this problem. In addition to online only, people can only play it online when I'M online. This makes the playing field fair for me. It's a win win (for me).
Honestly I've thought about that before. How would you like a game, such as diablo 3, that has 3 modes... normal, hardcore, and "casual". Casual mode is the exact same as normal, except you can only play for 4 hours per week. Hours can accrue if you don't play at all for a week or 3, you might come back and play for 16 hours the next week to catch up. And hell, if you just want to chat and socialize you could let people do that after their limited hours are up, but no xp gain or mob looting. Or the system could only count time spent out of towns, so you aren't penalized for going afk quick just as you log in.
I like that idea... and if you want to play more than your alloted hours, you can also create a character on the other servers that aren't for casual gamers. Only problem I see is that some casual games has more time than others. It's not like there's a threshold where you are labeld casual or not. Some people have 8 hours a week, some people have 12, some have 20. I guess you could create brackets of servers for how casual you wanna be.
One idea I thought about when I fantasize about making my own MMO is that you create ways for chracters to develop when you're not playing to give casual gamers equal footing. Say for example, skills that you can only learn while offline. Want to give your toon the ability to use a bow... fine, he has to undergo training and must be offline for a day to get level 1. One week for level 2, etc. That way you can unlock the ability to learn all weapons and it would take forever to learn it all that you wouldn't be able to log in ever. So the less you play, the more versatile you are[at the cost of being a lower level then everyone] while the more you play the higher level you are[at the cost of having a limited number of skillsets].
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While i find it rubbish, I have heard it enough to know this sort of thing is not going away.
That being said, the worst part for someone that does not want these sort of things is the constant need to update for new "skins". Getting updates nearly weekly just so some one with too much money can get a new skin for a weapon (or similar), then have the game force all other users to see it (updates), just gets very tiring. Looking at you TF2.
AstroManLuca
Lifer
- Jun 24, 2004
- 15,628
- 5
- 81
Cool, so Diablo 3 is going Pay To Win. Also aren't they eliminating single player mode entirely?
Well at least now I can save some money and buy Torchlight 2 instead, which probably won't cost $60.
Well at least now I can save some money and buy Torchlight 2 instead, which probably won't cost $60.
it would be income, but as to taxes, depends on your country. Here their is a set amount that, if under, is considered a hobby and not taxed. Over that, and things get interesting (at least then you could claim internet/pc/monthly fees as tax deductions). But then the same rules have existed before the internet. Even Ebay is counted if you sell too much.
As to the money, Blizzard will proberly take the auction money (from paypal/credit cards, take out transaction fees, take a cut of the sale price, then another cut to convert it to your local currency, then add it to your blizzard account (proberly like paypal then, no cash out unless over a given amount). So once money is in the blizzard "system", I suspect it will be kept their until used (monthly fees, your own auction buying ect).
Overall, proberly going to be hard to get money out unless you are rolling in it.
I don't think this is a big issue, look at how much money they missed out on in the secondary market for WoW goods... Fact is if Blizz doesn't build in a mode of buying items (really, buying the time investment to get items..) in their game someone else will figure out a way to do so. Why let the aftermarket profit from their IP when there is money to be made?
Really, items don't replace skill in most games and people who choose to commit huge chunks of time instead of money to get their stuff should, in theory, be more skilled at the game and have a natural advantage. If they play 8 hours a day and still lose in an arena match against someone who plays an hour a day and paid for their gear they really can't blame the pay to play items system.
Really, items don't replace skill in most games and people who choose to commit huge chunks of time instead of money to get their stuff should, in theory, be more skilled at the game and have a natural advantage. If they play 8 hours a day and still lose in an arena match against someone who plays an hour a day and paid for their gear they really can't blame the pay to play items system.
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