Diabetes

[igor_kavinski]

How many people here have Type 2 Diabetes? And how many know the real reason behind their affliction? (Diabetes runs in my family). I have it (though my hbA1C isn't high), my father has it and my grandma on my mom's side had it.

Oh well. For those who are interested, Type 2 Diabetes (T2D) is an inability of the body to burn fat because the liver becomes fatty (due to too much fructose from processed foods and eating a high carb diet). Due to this, the pancreas also becomes fatty and this leads to the loss of the pancreatic beta cells responsible for secreting insulin. There are over a billion such cells in a normal person but in a diabetic person, the number of these cells might be reduced to below 30 percent, leading to insufficient insulin secretion and hyperglycemia. One of the best ways to lose the pancreatic beta cells (if T2D runs in your family) is eating French fries regularly. I found this out the hard way.

Is it possible to regain these beta cells and the associated normoglycaemia? From the experiences of people who reduced their calories by a third, the answer seems to be yes. Due to reduced calories, the body hunts down fat in the body and burns it to meet its energy demands. If the person persists in the caloric restriction, this will eventually burn out the fat in the liver and the pancreas and miraculously, beta cells will get regenerated. But this is a very slow process and may take many months. I would like to share my experiences of the two types of diet that helped me and my friend.

White rice and fruits diet: In this diet, you must eat only 200g of boiled rice with fruits and veggies in every meal. You must take only a pinch of salt per day. Depending on how long you have been living with T2D, you may start seeing an improvement in your blood glucose levels anywhere from 15 days to 3 months. The reason this diet works is because there is almost no fat in this diet. The body is forced to burn the stored fat which gives the body a chance to get rid of the excess fat and eradicate the main problem of T2D (inability to burn fat). Triglycerides levels are higher in T2D patients. This diet will help to bring their levels down.

 

[igor_kavinski]

The other one is the Avocado/nuts diet:

"Five day Avocado/nuts fast per month: In this diet, you eat only Avocado and/or nuts and drink a good amount of water. After two days of doing so, the body is forced into Keto mode where it starts burning ketones for energy instead of glucose. Glucose levels will fall which means that glucose molecules will not be able to do as much damage to the body organs and this will give the body a chance to heal from the damage caused by sustained high levels of glucose. On the 4th and 5th day of this fast, the body recycles senile cells and generate new cells including pancreatic beta cells. However, please bear in mind that cell regeneration is a slow process so you will need to do this diet for 5 days every month for at least 3 months before you see a visible decline in your glucose levels. This diet can be harmful if you suffer from chronic kidney disease. In case of CKD, you may try to strengthen your kidneys first by taking grape seed extract, gum arabic powder, corn silk extract and black seed oil or extract."

It's possible that some people here have already tried these diets. If so, please share your experiences.

 

[Juiblex]

Thank you for the post. It was informative. And the explanation made sense.

 

[Steltek]

There are studies now indicating that in many obese Type 2 patients the Beta cells aren't destroyed, but instead just go dormant. For those patients, significant weight loss (I think in the study I saw, the average was something like 33 pounds) can put Type 2 diabetes into remission even for long term Type 2 patients.

My brother tried it and it worked for him. His blood sugar was 680 in January 2019 when he was initially diagnosed during a health crisis. After an initial short term treatment with insulin to get his blood glucose down to safe levels, he was started on Metformin for glucose control and a low carb diet. Over the course of 14 months, he then lost almost 40 pounds. His blood glucose and A1c levels are now back to normal, and his doctor has formally discontinued his diabetes medications because he simply doesn't need them any more. He does still test his blood glucose every few days or so, but it has continued to be in the normal range.

 

[igor_kavinski]

He does still test his blood glucose every few days or so, but it has continued to be in the normal range.

Great to hear that! Is he continuing the low carb diet? Or has he resumed normal eating with exercise? How is he keeping the pounds off?

 

[Steltek]

Great to hear that! Is he continuing the low carb diet? Or has he resumed normal eating with exercise? How is he keeping the pounds off?

He has resumed a mostly normal diet, though he does still try to avoid excessive carbs now out of habit. He has added a few daily exercise routines, and has begun walking to places whenever possible on the job where he would have formerly driven his vehicle. It is a big jobsite where he works, so he gets plenty of exercise.

Now, if he could just quit smoking he'd be set.....

 

[mike8675309]

How many people here have Type 2 Diabetes? And how many know the real reason behind their affliction? (Diabetes runs in my family). I have it (though my hbA1C isn't high), my father has it and my grandma on my mom's side had it.

Oh well. For those who are interested, Type 2 Diabetes (T2D) is an inability of the body to burn fat because the liver becomes fatty (due to too much fructose from processed foods and eating a high carb diet). Due to this, the pancreas also becomes fatty and this leads to the loss of the pancreatic beta cells responsible for secreting insulin. There are over a billion such cells in a normal person but in a diabetic person, the number of these cells might be reduced to below 30 percent, leading to insufficient insulin secretion and hyperglycemia. One of the best ways to lose the pancreatic beta cells (if T2D runs in your family) is eating French fries regularly. I found this out the hard way.

Is it possible to regain these beta cells and the associated normoglycaemia? From the experiences of people who reduced their calories by a third, the answer seems to be yes. Due to reduced calories, the body hunts down fat in the body and burns it to meet its energy demands. If the person persists in the caloric restriction, this will eventually burn out the fat in the liver and the pancreas and miraculously, beta cells will get regenerated. But this is a very slow process and may take many months. I would like to share my experiences of the two types of diet that helped me and my friend.

White rice and fruits diet: In this diet, you must eat only 200g of boiled rice with fruits and veggies in every meal. You must take only a pinch of salt per day. Depending on how long you have been living with T2D, you may start seeing an improvement in your blood glucose levels anywhere from 15 days to 3 months. The reason this diet works is because there is almost no fat in this diet. The body is forced to burn the stored fat which gives the body a chance to get rid of the excess fat and eradicate the main problem of T2D (inability to burn fat). Triglycerides levels are higher in T2D patients. This diet will help to bring their levels down.

I wish to clarify your statements on what Type 2 Diabetes is as your explanation was a bit to limited.
Diabetes is when your body is unable to control your blood sugar levels. Your body has beta cells in your pancreas responsible for secreting insulin into your blood. Your metabolic system is responsible for signaling when to increase insulin and when to reduce it, in a healthy person keeping it all in balance. In type 1 diabetes, the body's immune system destroys the beta cells preventing your body from generating insulin. In type 2 diabetes, your beta cells become damaged from over use, killing some off, and reducing the performance of others.

There is very early evidence that type 1 diabetes is triggered by environmental systems. Either something we are exposed to in youth, or something we eat/drink.
How do our beta cells overwork to create type 2 diabetes? Lack of exercise and diets high in fats, particularly saturated fats and cholesterol will provide an opportunity for fats to get into our skeletal muscle. Our skeletal muscle is where much of the glucose in our diet is stored. Insulin is the key that unlocks our skeletal muscle to take up glucose. Fat stored in the muscle interferes with insulin signaling the muscle to take up glucose.

This creates a cycle where our blood will have too much glucose in it, so our pancreas secretes insulin to get the glucose out of the blood into the muscles. But the fat in the muscle blocks that signal, causing the metabolic system to signal more and more insulin to try to clear the glucose. Imagine now every meal you eat, every day of your life, from childhood, you are inundating your body with high fat diets, raising blood sugar levels, forcing your pancreas beta cells to work much harder than they should have to.

How do you reverse type 2 diabetes? Most people can't, but you can make it better. Exercise regularly, so there is somewhere for the glucose to go. Reduce dramatically your intake of dietary cholesterol and saturated fat to reduce the build-up in your muscles.

How our metabolic system works with insulin

Flashback Friday: What Causes Insulin Resistance and Diabetes? | NutritionFacts.org

Prediabetes and type 2 diabetes are caused by a drop in insulin sensitivity blamed on “intramyocellular lipid,” the buildup of fat inside our muscle cells. Saturated fat can be toxic to the insulin-producing beta cells in the pancreas, explaining why animal fat consumption can impair insulin...

nutritionfacts.org

Banting Memorial lecture 2012: reversing the twin cycles of type 2 diabetes

Banting Memorial lecture 2012: reversing the twin cycles of type 2 diabetes - PubMed

It has become widely accepted that Type 2 diabetes is inevitably life-long, with irreversible and progressive beta cell damage. However, the restoration of normal glucose metabolism within days after bariatric surgery in the majority of people with Type 2 diabetes disproves this concept. There...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[igor_kavinski]

Banting Memorial lecture 2012: reversing the twin cycles of type 2 diabetes

Banting Memorial lecture 2012: reversing the twin cycles of type 2 diabetes - PubMed

It has become widely accepted that Type 2 diabetes is inevitably life-long, with irreversible and progressive beta cell damage. However, the restoration of normal glucose metabolism within days after bariatric surgery in the majority of people with Type 2 diabetes disproves this concept. There...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

This is what a large percentage of people, including doctors themselves, do not know. People can be excused because a lot of them have other things to worry about and understanding medical concepts and terminology is not everyone's cup of tea. But what I find extremely inexcusable and even bordering on criminal negligence are the doctors who willfully remain ignorant of the latest research and advancements in their field and keep treating their patients with outdated medical knowledge, thus spreading the notion that T2D is a lifelong affliction.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Now, if he could just quit smoking he'd be set.....

Maybe show him some high resolution pictures of internal organs like the heart and lung, blackened after years of smoking? Also, he should be taking a good amount of Vitamin C to counter the lung damage from smoke particles.

 

[Steltek]

Maybe show him some high resolution pictures of internal organs like the heart and lung, blackened after years of smoking? Also, he should be taking a good amount of Vitamin C to counter the lung damage from smoke particles.

Yeah, he knows how bad it is. However, it is so very hard to quit a 30+ year nicotine habit. Add to the fact that his current wife is an unrepentant chain-smoker who herself has no intent to quit, it has made it especially difficult for him. He does take vitamin C, but it isn't going to do much good until he can finally quit.

Ironically, his attempts to quit smoking lead him to be prescribed Chantix which itself is suspected of having magnified the scope of his diabetes at the time of his crisis diagnosis. It is apparently a known side effect of the medication (which apparently now bears a warning in the packaging after lawsuit settlements). His diabetes was not known at the time it was prescribed, but it became immediately obvious after about 3 weeks.

Moral of the story is, if you are or know a smoker, don't let them take Chantix without checking their blood glucose levels before starting it and also without regularly monitoring their blood glucose while taking it. It can literally be a life and death thing for some people.

BTW, this is the article my brother read which caused him to try the weight angle for his diabetes.

Understanding Diagnosis and Treatment of Diabetes

WebMD's comprehensive guide to the diagnosis and treatment of diabetes.

www.webmd.com

 

[igor_kavinski]

BTW, this is the article my brother read which caused him to try the weight angle for his diabetes.

Understanding Diagnosis and Treatment of Diabetes

WebMD's comprehensive guide to the diagnosis and treatment of diabetes.

www.webmd.com

Yes, I'm familiar with that. In my opinion, Dr. Roy Taylor deserves a Nobel prize for his research. He showed through MRI images of the pancreas that Diabetic patients had fatty pancreas while normal pancreas didn't contain fatty deposits. After following his diet plan, most of his patients managed to get their pancreas fat free and that was also confirmed through MRI.

 

[deadlyapp]

Your discussion of diabetes is sound, however your recommended diets are garbage. Recommending someone to eat only white rice and veggies/fruit, or to only eat avocados and nuts is wholly unhealthy and impossible to maintain - not to mention they are in complete odds of each other.

Avoiding simple carbohydrates, such as white rice, and those with high sugar content, such as fruit, is a great way to improve insulin sensitivity. You don't need to restrict all carbohydrates, and you don't need to focus on specific types of fats. Yes, avoiding "bad" fats, such as low grade oils, is helpful, but forcing yourself to only eat avocados and nuts/seeds is asinine.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Your discussion of diabetes is sound, however your recommended diets are garbage. Recommending someone to eat only white rice and veggies/fruit, or to only eat avocados and nuts is wholly unhealthy and impossible to maintain - not to mention they are in complete odds of each other.

Avoiding simple carbohydrates, such as white rice, and those with high sugar content, such as fruit, is a great way to improve insulin sensitivity. You don't need to restrict all carbohydrates, and you don't need to focus on specific types of fats. Yes, avoiding "bad" fats, such as low grade oils, is helpful, but forcing yourself to only eat avocados and nuts/seeds is asinine.

It seems counter-intuitive, yes, but it works. That's why I said that Diabetes is fundamentally an issue with burning fat in the body. The inability to burn fat clogs the liver and pancreas with fat and leads to their malfunction. The way to fix it is to

a) reduce fat in diet to minimum (white rice+fruits+veggies) OR
b) avocado/nuts only diet (but only for 5 consecutive days per month)

Both of these are not supposed to be lifelong diets. Follow any of them and there is a great chance that the liver and pancreas will be freed of fatty deposits and return to normal functioning. My friend went with the white rice diet. Without taking a single prescription drug, he is now able to eat more or less a normal diet and his blood sugar is normal. I have tried the avocado-only diet (nuts don't go well with my kidneys) and my blood sugar dropped to below 70 and yet I did not suffer the effects of hypoglycemia and did not faint. That's coz my brain and the rest of my body got the required energy from ketones. Google "Kempner Rice Diet" and "ProlonFMD" for more info.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Your discussion of diabetes is sound, however your recommended diets are garbage. Recommending someone to eat only white rice and veggies/fruit, or to only eat avocados and nuts is wholly unhealthy and impossible to maintain - not to mention they are in complete odds of each other.

Avoiding simple carbohydrates, such as white rice, and those with high sugar content, such as fruit, is a great way to improve insulin sensitivity. You don't need to restrict all carbohydrates, and you don't need to focus on specific types of fats. Yes, avoiding "bad" fats, such as low grade oils, is helpful, but forcing yourself to only eat avocados and nuts/seeds is asinine.

exactly!!!!!

 

[igor_kavinski]

Moral of the story is, if you are or know a smoker, don't let them take Chantix without checking their blood glucose levels before starting it and also without regularly monitoring their blood glucose while taking it. It can literally be a life and death thing for some people.

How I got introduced to Diabetes is somewhat similar, except in my case, it was vitamin abuse, specifically, vitamin B3. Too much B3 can worsen blood sugar control. I was oblivious to this fact because not a single article I read about Vitamin B complex warned me of the dangers. I was forced to take Vitamin Bs to deal with my neuropathy arising from a broken spinal disc that was hurting my sciatic nerve and weakening it considerably, to the point that I was losing motor control in my right leg. Vitamin B1, B2, B6 and B12 are supposed to work in synergy and help to repair damaged nerves. I certainly felt better taking them but the Vitamin complex I used had B3 in it too (about 250% of RDI). Within 6 months, I lost normal sugar control which perplexed me and prompted me to research each vitamin in the B complex and led to the discovery of excess B3's role in worsening glucose control.

Contrary to conventional wisdom, water soluble vitamins are NOT harmless. They are supposed to be excreted in urine if in excess but not before they wreak havoc. Since it is impossible to overdose on these vitamins through diet alone, tread carefully when using vitamin supplements and be especially wary of products that include many times the RDI amount. A somewhat safe product I found is Now Daily Vits which doesn't have any ingredient more than 100% of RDI. Still, I would advise against taking it daily.

Fun fact: Vitamin C is widely regarded as harmless. However, when taken in excess, it will increase iron absorption from diet considerably, leading to iron overdose. It can also magnify insults to the liver. You won't do your liver any favor by mixing alcohol with Vitamin C.

 

[PowerEngineer]

<sigh>

Anyone who has had reason to tap into the wisdom of the internet on diabetes knows just how many "cures", "silver bullet" supplements, and "miracle" diets are being touted to those who suffer from it. The recent proliferation of misinformation on COVID-19 comes as no surprise to people with diabetes. 😞

FWIW, I agree that taking off pounds (assuming you are overweight) is one of the best things you can do to bring your glucose levels down and into better control. My understanding is that a weight reduction of just 5% to 10% is often enough to make a big difference. Any sort of diet that reduces your caloric intake (while also limiting your carbohydrates) is going to move you in the right direction. IMHO it is best to change your diet in a way that you can live with as your "new normal" and not so extreme that it completely cuts out any food groups. People with diabetes have to be in it for the long haul.

It also seems that individuals exhibit a wide range of response to various medications and lifestyle changes. It is important to find out what works best for you.

My two cent...

 

[deadlyapp]

Reads like a
sonnet

 

[The Sauce]

About 80% of people with T2DM can reverse with keto, intermittent fasting, or a combination of the two. Key is to find your keto threshold - for many it is less than 50g of carbs per day. A keto meter is cheap and easy to use.

Just remember this simple formula:

All carbs = sugar (yes, literally...all carbs)
Sugar --> increased insulin secretion --> insulin resistance --> T2DM (can take years to decades)

You fix this by running that equation in reverse. So get rid of the rice, go easy on the fruits, no processed carbs. This is well established and extensively scientifically validated.

 

[mike8675309]

One point to highlight about the claims of weight loss to reduce the incidence of diabetes.
Yes, the process of losing weight does help, as if you are in a caloric deficit, regardless of what you eat, your body will be able to handle it. And typically to get into a caloric deficit, you have to cut out high-calorie animal foods high in fat.
Though it is important to point out that even skinny people can die from heart disease. Don't forget what you eat is as important as how much you eat when you are dieting, and maintaining. Heart Disease is the #1 killer of Americans. It doesn't get to that number by just killing overweight people.

 

[Pohemi]

There are studies now indicating that in many obese Type 2 patients the Beta cells aren't destroyed, but instead just go dormant.

As well as chemical/biological resistance to the insulin. Beta and islet cells play a key part but your organs and tissues (body) can become resistant to the hormone so it doesn't work as well.

It seems counter-intuitive, yes, but it works. That's why I said that Diabetes is fundamentally an issue with burning fat in the body. The inability to burn fat clogs the liver and pancreas with fat and leads to their malfunction. The way to fix it is to

a) reduce fat in diet to minimum (white rice+fruits+veggies) OR...

Yeah...no.
Reducing fat is important but you are suggesting basically loading on mostly carbs, including "empty" carbs in rice (very little other nutritive value in rice besides the starch).

That is not how a diabetic needs to structure diet, even for limited periods. Worked for you or someone you know? Great. Not a good suggestion for everyone, though...reducing carb intake should be as important as reducing fat and sodium, etc...

EDIT- especially processed sugars! A piece of fruit will obviously always be better than something with table sugar or "complex carbs" in it...

 

[igor_kavinski]

Reducing fat is important but you are suggesting basically loading on mostly carbs, including "empty" carbs in rice (very little other nutritive value in rice besides the starch).

That is not how a diabetic needs to structure diet, even for limited periods. Worked for you or someone you know? Great. Not a good suggestion for everyone, though...reducing carb intake should be as important as reducing fat and sodium, etc...

EDIT- especially processed sugars! A piece of fruit will obviously always be better than something with table sugar or "complex carbs" in it...

I'm not suggesting "loading" on carbs. The diet should begin with reduced calories from carbs (only white rice) and fruit. The minimum amount of fat in this diet will force the body to burn the fat already inside the body which will lead to reducing the body's fat stores. Once most of them are sufficiently depleted, the body will start burning away the fat plaguing the internal organs, especially the fat in the liver and the pancreas. This is when the patient will start needing to reduce their diabetic medication doses, as the body's sensitivity to insulin will start ramping up. In time, the body may not need medication anymore. This process may take anywhere from 2 months to 2 years and differs based on the patient's condition and overall health. Not everyone may have the fortitude to follow this diet but for people who are determined to beat Diabetes, this is the way to go.

 

[Pohemi]

Yeah there's an active, focused effort to "load carbs" used by athletes such as cyclists and long-distance runners etc...that's not what I was getting at. I only meant that it appeared starches would be the largest portion of the diet, which is where I would differ (and most nutritionists would agree with me).

There are other diet's that can have the same effect as what you are describing, and honestly are likely even harder to follow (like a 'Raw' diet). I just saw the example you used and it looked like mostly carbs, where proteins and veggies should be filling out a larger portion. That's all.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Yeah there's an active, focused effort to "load carbs" used by athletes such as cyclists and long-distance runners etc...that's not what I was getting at. I only meant that it appeared starches would be the largest portion of the diet, which is where I would differ (and most nutritionists would agree with me).

There are other diet's that can have the same effect as what you are describing, and honestly are likely even harder to follow (like a 'Raw' diet). I just saw the example you used and it looked like mostly carbs, where proteins and veggies should be filling out a larger portion. That's all.

It's been tested in the 1960s by Dr. Walter Kempner who discovered it by accident because of a woman who forgot his instructions and followed this diet for two months instead of two weeks (I might be wrong about the exact duration). When Kempner saw how her symptoms had improved, he instructed her to keep following the diet and started treating his other patients with severe high blood pressure / Diabetes etc. Most of his peers refused to accept the evidence he gathered about the efficacy of this diet which included one woman's Diabetic Retinopathy getting reversed after two years of following this diet. It's an option if anyone is interested and if they want to do this under medical supervision, I think they can still do so at Duke University.

 

[JEDIYoda]

What about that operation that is suppose to correctr type 2 diabetes with a simple operation that nobody in the medical field is talking about because they all are in the pockets of the pharmaceutical Industry? So everyone is taking pills or insulin when they could have a simple one time operation that would cure type2 diabetes? lolol....all in jest!

 

[igor_kavinski]

What about that operation that is suppose to correctr type 2 diabetes with a simple operation that nobody in the medical field is talking about because they all are in the pockets of the pharmaceutical Industry? So everyone is taking pills or insulin when they could have a simple one time operation that would cure type2 diabetes? lolol....all in jest!

I wish Diabetes were a joke. But it isn't. It destroys people from the inside out, especially those with eye/kidney damage.