Deus Ex Challenge Thread

[MercenaryForHire]

So, since I'm playing through Deus Ex again (what a great game) I thought I'd throw out the idea of something a little different - the "No-Kill" challenge.

This would just be for fun, really. I'm trying to determine the rules:

1. JC is not allowed to kill anyone, directly or indirectly. Period. No turrets, no proximity-to-barrel frags, nothing. Enemy friendly-fire is OK. If that Commando decides that firing off a rocket into a box of TNT is the best way to do things, that's his problem. 😉
2. That includes the animals. Yes, I know it says "Animal carcass" when you tranquilize a guard dog, but you just told the puppy to sleep. 😛
3. All "survival objectives" must be completed. That means you must save SPOILER.
4. Obviously, bots are fair game.

I'm pretty sure that all enemies - even the "Boss" enemies - can be defeated with non-lethal weapons (Gas Grenade) or avoided entirely (Speed Enhancement/Cloak/Radar Transparency).

Anyone else feel like trying this? 😛

- M4H

 

[CP5670]

It's been a while since I last played DX, but I don't think you can do anything to Anna Navarre with the tranq darts. You have to kill her in some way, either with weapons, objects are the killswitch phrase.

 

[MrWizzard]

Originally posted by: CP5670
It's been a while since I last played DX, but I don't think you can do anything to Anna Navarre with the tranq darts. You have to kill her in some way, either with weapons, objects are the killswitch phrase.

Yea is it considered a kill if you get her with trank darts but then she chooses to self-destruct? It was her choice... You were trying to pursue things non-lethally....

Also what diff level are you thinking about?

 

[Dethfrumbelo]

Originally posted by: CP5670
It's been a while since I last played DX, but I don't think you can do anything to Anna Navarre with the tranq darts. You have to kill her in some way, either with weapons, objects are the killswitch phrase.

I think that's true. The best I could do was stick mines in the airplane. It was then her choice to run by them.

This is what Wikipedia says:

The game offers several opportunities in which Anna Navarre can be killed, and this affects later responses by Hermann and other characters. The first occasion is within a 747 where the player can kill Anna in order to prevent the execution of an NSF leader. Later, during an encounter in the subway at Battery Park, Anna may also be killed. The definitive final encounter, however, occurs at UNATCO headquarters. Like Gunther Hermann, agent Navarre can be terminated by simply speaking aloud a killphrase, specifically "flatlander woman". As in Gunther's case, death only occurs after several seconds, long enough for Navarre to express her fury ("How did you know-?!") and Denton to deliver an apt and somewhat jarring one-liner.

It is widely believed that Anna is one of two characters who must die in order to complete the game - at one point, the key to an unpassable door is only obtainable once Anna is dead. However, the existence of alternate dialog later in the game which depends on whether she is alive or dead indicates that she too may be allowed to live without hampering the player's objectives. The alternate dialog occurs in an infolink message from Gunther Hermann while in the upper balcony of the chapel of the Knights Templar Cathedral. It can be triggered by enabling cheat codes and escaping UNATCO without killing Anna, then playing the game up to the Cathedral mission. Without cheats, it is possible to escape UNATCO by forcing Anna or Scott (the nearby UNATCO trooper) to open the locked front door, but this is technically difficult to achieve.

Isn't it also necessary to kill Walton Simons, or can he be avoided?

 

[MercenaryForHire]

Easy to start. I imagine playing on anything difficult would result in a lot of death and frustration once you start running into MJ12 on the regular. 😛

Regarding Anna Navarre, you don't off her in the 747. I read that if you knock out Leverre before she gets to him, it counts towards the objective - then when you run into her in UNATCO again, you gas her and she'll eventually fall unconscious but not explode.

Pretty sure you can avoid or KO Walton Simons every time.

I think "implied kills" will have to be allowed - ie, scuttling the supertanker with all those mechanics on board. 😛

- M4H

 

[nineball9]

DX is probably my favorite PC game of all time. Yes, you can finish the game without killing anyone (and not cheating!). You can run from Gunther and Simons, but Anna is the tough one.
Here's the link to the person who figured how to get Anna to open the door at UNATCO without killing her (you must get through the door to proceed).

I've never tried it but others have confirmed that it can be done. (Poke arond the Planet DeusEx Forums in the above link for more info.)

Some have tried to finish the game without using any weapons! I think someone did it (except for the gas grenade trick for Anna) - again, poke around the forums.

In an interview, Warren Spector commented that he wasn't originally aware the game could be finished without killing anyone, but learned that players had managed to do so.
Good luck.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

It's definitely possible if the tranquilizer and gas grenades are allowed. Like nineball9 said, not killing Anna will be tough as she's immune to unconsciousness, but a well placed gas grenade will make her flee. The rest of the game should be mostly a matter of shooting people with your darts instead of your pistol, although the commandos will be a little tricky as well.

Originally posted by: nineball9
Some have tried to finish the game without using any weapons! I think someone did it (except for the gas grenade trick for Anna) - again, poke around the forums.

For a killing-allowed no-weapon playthrough, the killswitch is awesome.

JC: Take your best shot, flatlander woman. 😎
Anna: How did you... :Q *BOOM*

 

[shortylickens]

OK, seriously, I dont know what the hell you people mean when you say "run away from Gunter".
You have to go down into the basement of the Cathedral, and you have to interact with the computer and the holographic communicator (unless you cheat).
Even if you sneak by him initially he attacks you when you get stopped by Walton Simons cutscene. And that lets him get more than enough free hits to zoink you.

Am I doing something wrong here?

 

[MercenaryForHire]

Originally posted by: HamburgerBoy
It's definitely possible if the tranquilizer and gas grenades are allowed. Like nineball9 said, not killing Anna will be tough as she's immune to unconsciousness, but a well placed gas grenade will make her flee. The rest of the game should be mostly a matter of shooting people with your darts instead of your pistol, although the commandos will be a little tricky as well.

Never underestimate how much damage a baton to the back of the head does when you have a maxed Low-Tech/Strength combo. 😀

For a killing-allowed no-weapon playthrough, the killswitch is awesome.

JC: Take your best shot, flatlander woman. 😎
Anna: How did you... :Q *BOOM*

Killswitch FTW.

Gunther: I am not a machine ... 😕
JC: Sticks and stones. 😎
*BOOM*

😀

Originally posted by: shortylickens
OK, seriously, I dont know what the hell you people mean when you say "run away from Gunter".
You have to go down into the basement of the Cathedral, and you have to interact with the computer and the holographic communicator (unless you cheat).
Even if you sneak by him initially he attacks you when you get stopped by Walton Simons cutscene. And that lets him get more than enough free hits to zoink you.

Am I doing something wrong here?

yourdoingitwrong.jpg

Go in, piss him off, and get him to chase you across the grounds. Then about-face, hit the Speed aug, and haul ass back into the basement. Hackerise the Gibson, spacebar spam through the cutscene, and get the hell out of them before he gets back to toast you.

- M4H

 

[IdaGno]

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire
I think "implied kills" will have to be allowed - ie, scuttling the supertanker with all those mechanics on board. 😛

Somewhere out there, probably over at the TTLG Forums, is a pic of all the Wallcloud ship crew stunned & removed to the docks for safekeeping during a non-lethal runthru.

 

[MercenaryForHire]

Originally posted by: IdaGno

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire
I think "implied kills" will have to be allowed - ie, scuttling the supertanker with all those mechanics on board. 😛

Somewhere out there, probably over at the TTLG Forums, is a pic of all the Wallcloud ship crew stunned & removed to the docks for safekeeping during a non-lethal runthru.

Can you carry bodies through a level transition? 😕

- M4H

 

[Daverino]

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire

Originally posted by: IdaGno

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire
I think "implied kills" will have to be allowed - ie, scuttling the supertanker with all those mechanics on board. 😛

Somewhere out there, probably over at the TTLG Forums, is a pic of all the Wallcloud ship crew stunned & removed to the docks for safekeeping during a non-lethal runthru.

Can you carry bodies through a level transition? 😕

- M4H

Yep. I know that I played a 'no innocent kill' trip through. And I rescued everyone from the freighter before I sank it. It was a freakin pain. I think before that point I was running 'no kill' and then switched to 'no innocents' after that point.

Also fun was a 'Max kill' run through. Kill everyone you can, allies, civilians, enemies, totally psycho. I found that the game broke though. Jock attacks you as soon as he sees you in the bar.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire
Never underestimate how much damage a baton to the back of the head does when you have a maxed Low-Tech/Strength combo. 😀

Isn't she immune to that as well? At least, I think she is. You have to make her unlock and run out of the door to get past her.

 

[pennylane]

Originally posted by: nineball9
DX is probably my favorite PC game of all time. Yes, you can finish the game without killing anyone (and not cheating!). You can run from Gunther and Simons, but Anna is the tough one.
Here's the link to the person who figured how to get Anna to open the door at UNATCO without killing her (you must get through the door to proceed).

I've never tried it but others have confirmed that it can be done. (Poke arond the Planet DeusEx Forums in the above link for more info.)

Some have tried to finish the game without using any weapons! I think someone did it (except for the gas grenade trick for Anna) - again, poke around the forums.

In an interview, Warren Spector commented that he wasn't originally aware the game could be finished without killing anyone, but learned that players had managed to do so.
Good luck.

Okay I just got Anna to open the door so I could run past it without killing her. I was standing in front of the window in front of the secretary's office (that links to Manderley's office). I bounced a gas grenade off the left wall on top of the balcony thing. It was sort of close to the "edge" of the wall (so the grenade didn't deflect THAT much from its original trajectory). It took me about ten tries to do but she eventually opened the door. She opens it as soon as the grenade goes off (I think) so if you run up the stairs and the door isn't open, just re-load.

 

[CP5670]

I need to try this out. The AIs can open any door they run into regardless of whether or not it's locked, so you would just have try it several times until she runs in the right direction.

Also fun was a 'Max kill' run through. Kill everyone you can, allies, civilians, enemies, totally psycho. I found that the game broke though. Jock attacks you as soon as he sees you in the bar.

If you kill everyone there (aside from Jock) and return to that place later, the navy guy says "Someone wasted the bartender! Drinks are free!" :laugh: Manderley also berates you for it at one point.

 

[dighn]

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire

Originally posted by: HamburgerBoy
It's definitely possible if the tranquilizer and gas grenades are allowed. Like nineball9 said, not killing Anna will be tough as she's immune to unconsciousness, but a well placed gas grenade will make her flee. The rest of the game should be mostly a matter of shooting people with your darts instead of your pistol, although the commandos will be a little tricky as well.

Never underestimate how much damage a baton to the back of the head does when you have a maxed Low-Tech/Strength combo. 😀

ditto. IIRC I knocked out commandos by first stunning them then knocking them with the baton, all from the back. It was more effective than tranq darts because it's instantaneous 🙂 and tranq darts were rather limited in quantity.

 

[shortylickens]

Originally posted by: dighn

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire

Originally posted by: HamburgerBoy
It's definitely possible if the tranquilizer and gas grenades are allowed. Like nineball9 said, not killing Anna will be tough as she's immune to unconsciousness, but a well placed gas grenade will make her flee. The rest of the game should be mostly a matter of shooting people with your darts instead of your pistol, although the commandos will be a little tricky as well.

Never underestimate how much damage a baton to the back of the head does when you have a maxed Low-Tech/Strength combo. 😀

ditto. IIRC I knocked out commandos by first stunning them then knocking them with the baton, all from the back. It was more effective than tranq darts because it's instantaneous 🙂 and tranq darts were rather limited in quantity.

Dont know if anybody else noticed it but I discovered a lot of bad guys go down instantly if you hit them in the skull.
But when you walk up and look at them it still says unconscious.
Thats a nice way to keep kills down but also get quick drops, as if it were a short range rifle.


===+++ NEW TOPIC! +++===

Does anybody know if they are still working on that UT2004 project of Deus EX?
I think it was called Deus Ex REDUX or something like that.
All I can find on the web is old references of a project that may have been cancelled a while back.

 

[flyboy84]

Porting DX to a modern engine would be incredible. Reading this thread makes me want to go back for another run through, and if I could get an updated copy, I'd gladly pay full price ($50) for the privilege.

 

[MercenaryForHire]

I'm at the Supertanker right now. Still haven't killed anyone. Escaped Navarre by barricading her in the break room with chairs, and then herded Alex up and into the door with the baton since he's invulnerable. 😉

- M4H

 

[Fenixgoon]

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire
I'm at the Supertanker right now. Still haven't killed anyone. Escaped Navarre by barricading her in the break room with chairs, and then herded Alex up and into the door with the baton since he's invulnerable. 😉

- M4H

you are truly insane. i always kill practically every hostile in sight 😀

 

[yukichigai]

Originally posted by: flyboy84
Porting DX to a modern engine would be incredible. Reading this thread makes me want to go back for another run through, and if I could get an updated copy, I'd gladly pay full price ($50) for the privilege.

It's called Deus Ex: Reborn. They're porting it to UT2k4, and it will work in conjunction with HTDP. Last I heard they were still in the process of completing it, but there is a playable alpha of it available on moddb. (located hither)

Also, you don't have to blow $50 for a copy of DX. (to get it legally, I mean) They just started offering it for sale on Steam, and the steam version IS moddable and whatnot. (Though to use the updated opengl and direct3d8 renderers you have to go through a few steps to make the thing runnable when steam is off) It's only $10. Well worth it, if you ask me.

 

[MercenaryForHire]

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire
I'm at the Supertanker right now. Still haven't killed anyone. Escaped Navarre by barricading her in the break room with chairs, and then herded Alex up and into the door with the baton since he's invulnerable. 😉

- M4H

you are truly insane. i always kill practically every hostile in sight 😀

Believe me, it's been tough not to just up and blow away people in a few situations. 😛

- M4H

 

[Fenixgoon]

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire
I'm at the Supertanker right now. Still haven't killed anyone. Escaped Navarre by barricading her in the break room with chairs, and then herded Alex up and into the door with the baton since he's invulnerable. 😉

- M4H

you are truly insane. i always kill practically every hostile in sight 😀

Believe me, it's been tough not to just up and blow away people in a few situations. 😛

- M4H

what is your aug setup like? i'm quite curious

 

[irishScott]

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire
I'm at the Supertanker right now. Still haven't killed anyone. Escaped Navarre by barricading her in the break room with chairs, and then herded Alex up and into the door with the baton since he's invulnerable. 😉

- M4H

you are truly insane. i always kill practically every hostile in sight 😀

Believe me, it's been tough not to just up and blow away people in a few situations. 😛

- M4H

Seriously. Navarre came along and I just pulled out my GEP gun, said "fck you" out loud during her challenge and blew that b!tch to hell.

 

[Inspector Jihad]

interesting