Detroit cuts off water for non-payment, protest ensues

[Orignal Earl]

Was this not brought up in either thread?

The official rationale for the water shut-downs – the Detroit Water Department's need to recoup millions – collapses on inspection. Detroit's high-end golf club, the Red Wing's hockey arena, the Ford football stadium, and more than half of the city's commercial and industrial users are also owing – a sum totalling $30 million. But no contractors have showed up on their doorstep.

http://www.theguardian.com/environm...-tap-shut-off-that-could-impact-300000-people

 

[boomerang]

Don't red states, the south in particular, have the highest subsidized rate and welfare usage?

http://www.businessinsider.com/red-states-are-welfare-queens-2011-8

Yes they are

And here I thought proggies like yourself were all for redistribution.

 

[alzan]

Was this not brought up in either thread?



http://www.theguardian.com/environm...-tap-shut-off-that-could-impact-300000-people

Businesses don't pay their water bills? *!%$ers should be shut-off.

 

[Texashiker]

The official rationale for the water shut-downs – the Detroit Water Department's need to recoup millions – collapses on inspection. Detroit's high-end golf club, the Red Wing's hockey arena, the Ford football stadium, and more than half of the city's commercial and industrial users are also owing – a sum totalling $30 million. But no contractors have showed up on their doorstep.

Those should be cut off before families are cut off.

 

[Exterous]

Drinking water is a basic human right it should be free.

I'd be ok with that as long as there was some method at every connection that limited the amount of water used for nonpaying residences to the minimum daily human need. Otherwise you subsidize people watering lawns, taking excessive showers etc and end up with water distribution issues from this waste.

 

[soulcougher73]

Yeah! How dare we expect people to pay a meager amount of money for fixing their roads to ensure it is safe to drive and maintaining the lines that facilitate it to their house! The outrage!

FTFY..id like to lump water into taxes just like roads, etc. Shits being paid for one way or another.

 

[soulcougher73]

Don't red states, the south in particular, have the highest subsidized rate and welfare usage?

http://www.businessinsider.com/red-states-are-welfare-queens-2011-8

Yes they are

Get out of here with your facts...pssh.

 

[Exterous]

Was this not brought up in either thread?



http://www.theguardian.com/environm...-tap-shut-off-that-could-impact-300000-people

I'm pretty sure thats because those companies don't own money on their water bills. No credible source I can find sites them as 'water' bills only 'outstanding bills'.

Given that the City of Detroit agreed in April to settle all of the Red Wing's outstanding bills as part of a new stadium deal I would be shocked if the Red Wings could have generated $80,000 in outstanding water bills in less than 3 months. The argument further falls on its face when you note that they city is only cutting off customers at least 60 days delinquent. It would be impossible for the Red Wings to be included in this yet even if they had amassed $80,000 in water usage in April as there is no way they could 60 days delinquent yet

Not that reality will stop people from twisting this into supporting their cause though

 

[Exterous]

Businesses don't pay their water bills? *!%$ers should be shut-off.

I can't find any real news outlet saying they didn't pay their water bills - only references to 'owing' or 'outstanding' bills

 

[Moonbeam]

We are turning into a third world country - UN has to bring our residents water while we give trillions to banks? This country has become a joke.

It is also extremely right wing full of people who hate themselves and their society. It didn't become a joke without powerful unconscious motives to actually seek its demise, all those fundy Christians for example itching for the end times so they can take the special bus to heaven.

 

[Moonbeam]

I can't find any real news outlet saying they didn't pay their water bills - only references to 'owing' or 'outstanding' bills

The water company has to think of the water company. Never mind if riots burn the city down or blow up the water plant so folk can cut their noses off to spite their faces.

One may have no right to water in a capitalist society but if so than work of some kind must be provided so that people can earn the money to pay. The right to life in a capitalist society must include the right to money and the psychologically healthy way to acquire that is via the dignity of work.

 

[unokitty]

When I was in the service, it wasn't unusual for the compound I was stationed at to lose water for a few days or a week at a time.

When that happened, they would tow in a Water Buffalo (above). I still remember how bad the warm iodine treated water tasted.

On the other hand, we were near an Air Base that had a PX where beer was cheaper than soda. (Don't remember there being any bottled water.)

Still, wouldn't wish Water Buffalos on Detroit. Hope that they can get some relief from the UN.

Uno
Sentry Dog Handler
US Army 69-71

 

[nehalem256]

Don't red states, the south in particular, have the highest subsidized rate and welfare usage?

http://www.businessinsider.com/red-states-are-welfare-queens-2011-8

Yes they are

Don't blue states have highest rate of Wall Street financial firms ass-raping the American people?:sneaky:

 

[Brainonska511]

FTFY..id like to lump water into taxes just like roads, etc. Shits being paid for one way or another.

It's probably better that people are billed separately for water. Metered water has been shown to encourage conservation. I remember reading recently about one California town where the water company installed meters: usage dropped by ~20%.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

It's probably better that people are billed separately for water. Metered water has been shown to encourage conservation. I remember reading recently about one California town where the water company installed meters: usage dropped by ~20%.

My water is metered. I check it weekly and was able to catch a leak in my sprinkler system by doing so.

 

[xBiffx]

It's probably better that people are billed separately for water. Metered water has been shown to encourage conservation. I remember reading recently about one California town where the water company installed meters: usage dropped by ~20%.

I hate that many places charge sewage rates based on water meter readings though. Very retarded. But I'm not about to suggest that they start metering sewage either.

 

[alzan]

I can't find any real news outlet saying they didn't pay their water bills - only references to 'owing' or 'outstanding' bills

Good point.

I'm not sure about water but most businesses get reduced rates for electricity, gas, phone, etc. A solution might be for city utilities to slightly raise rates to businesses to lower rates for individuals; the utilities would most likely end up with less people not paying their bills.

One may have no right to water in a capitalist society but if so than work of some kind must be provided so that people can earn the money to pay. The right to life in a capitalist society must include the right to money and the psychologically healthy way to acquire that is via the dignity of work.

Stop making sense!!

 

[Fern]

I'm inclined to believe that Detroit has a problem with people who could pay but don't want to.

If you're poor, disabled or elderly there is help to pay your water bill. One example: http://www.needhelppayingbills.com/html/detroit_water_bill_assistance.html

Another problem is that Detroit is so poorly managed. I see no other reason that its water costs are higher than normal.

Fern

 

[smackababy]

FTFY..id like to lump water into taxes just like roads, etc. Shits being paid for one way or another.

No thanks on that. When my road needs maintenance, it takes them a fucking year to fix it properly. When a water main breaks, that shit is fixed before the next day. If water delivery was handled similar to USPS, we'd be lucky to have enough water to take a shower once a week.

 

[DucatiMonster696]

Good point.

I'm not sure about water but most businesses get reduced rates for electricity, gas, phone, etc. A solution might be for city utilities to slightly raise rates to businesses to lower rates for individuals; the utilities would most likely end up with less people not paying their bills.



Stop making sense!!

"Free" is not and never has been sustainable in the long term. People have to start paying their water bills to help maintain the infrastructure and keep services going otherwise the entire system breaks down. Furthermore passing that burden onto the remaining population of people and businesses who are paying their water bills on time and in full is an unconscionable action that penalizes forthright actions and creates even more compelling problems in the long term. Especially if rates start to dramatically climb so that businesses and individuals are forced to leave Detroit to seek relief from that additional added burden in order to support those who will not pay their bills.

 

[D-Man]

It is also extremely right wing full of people who hate themselves and their society. It didn't become a joke without powerful unconscious motives to actually seek its demise, all those fundy Christians for example itching for the end times so they can take the special bus to heaven.

Mooney I read this and crazy just drips from your words. THEN I read your next post and see perfectly logical sense.

Does that make you crazy or me?

 

[desy]

Water is by far my cheapest bill and pretty much essential with electricity. Its like $50 a month for about 3000 gallons a month so about 1.7 cents a gallon

 

[Moonbeam]

Mooney I read this and crazy just drips from your words. THEN I read your next post and see perfectly logical sense.

Does that make you crazy or me?

You are just ready for only a part of the truth. You already understand that folk are best off psychologically earning their way, but you may not be up to the notion that this leads to the need for government to provide some kind of employment for all but the severely disabled who can't really contribute anything. You are probably definitely not ready to see that we hate ourselves and as a consequence have an unconscious death wish. But you will probably agree that poor people hate the rich because of envy, which has its origin in just such self hate. Crazy generally means that some idea differs with what we believe as a result of trying to comfort out egos, which are a buffer designed to protect us from openly and constantly being crippled by the painful experience of remembering our past and the traumatic things that made us believe we are worthless things. We are not worthless of course. It is only something we were made to feel.

I don't want to cause you pain, but it was by the deepest grace of suffering that I managed to understand some of this. I wish there were some other way to say what is true and not make it hurt somehow. On the other hand, like knowing the value of money, you value what you earn. The price of wisdom is the death of the ego and it's money well spent.

 

[alzan]

"Free" is not and never has been sustainable in the long term. People have to start paying their water bills to help maintain the infrastructure and keep services going otherwise the entire system breaks down. Furthermore passing that burden onto the remaining population of people and businesses who are paying their water bills on time and in full is an unconscionable action that penalizes forthright actions and creates even more compelling problems in the long term. Especially if rates start to dramatically climb so that businesses and individuals are forced to leave Detroit to seek relief from that additional added burden in order to support those who will not pay their bills.

I never said anything about "free". Learn to read.

I personally find that giving businesses and organizations a reduced rate compared to the individual rate to be unconscionable. Businesses don't exist in a vacuum; they need consumers buying their products and/or services in order to survive and grow. Whether we're a consumer or business, we're all interdependent on each other.

People in Detroit and other cities are being forced to choose which bills to pay; a lot of that forced choice is due to lack of jobs and lack of a living wage for the jobs that are available. There's certainly a percentage of people who don't pay their water or other bills because they've used that money for alcohol, drugs or other sundries that they don't need but it's a small percentage.

The solution for Detroit's public water utility will have to be multi-layered.

 

[nehalem256]

Good point.

I'm not sure about water but most businesses get reduced rates for electricity, gas, phone, etc. A solution might be for city utilities to slightly raise rates to businesses to lower rates for individuals; the utilities would most likely end up with less people not paying their bills.

You tend to get better rates if you buy in bulk.