Details emerge on Bethesda's Creation Engine

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JimmiG

Platinum Member
Feb 24, 2005
2,024
112
106
Radiant AI was a huge disappointment. All the technology is still in the game, but they had to replace most of the dynamic behavior with scripts. They talk about it in one of the interview videos. If they gave the AI free rein, everyone would eventually fight everyone over things like a stolen apple, and chaos would ensue. Still a huge improvement from Morrowind, where the NPC's were completely static and just stood around outside no matter the weather or time of day.

I also hope they have more voice actors this time. I'd rather they use less famous actors and more of them than to just have a handful. In Oblivion, each species only has two voice actors, one male and one female.
 

taltamir

Lifer
Mar 21, 2004
13,576
6
76
the question is, how many of the game NPCs got this treatment?

did 1 in 10 have a daily routine more impressive than "wake up in her/his shop&house and stand in place all day"?
was it 1 in 100?
was it every single character.

it is entirely possible that a handful of NPCs were scripted that way, pointed out to official guides, while most NPCs did not.

I honestly don't remember if they did or didn't, its been too long.

Radiant AI was a huge disappointment. All the technology is still in the game, but they had to replace most of the dynamic behavior with scripts. They talk about it in one of the interview videos. If they gave the AI free rein, everyone would eventually fight everyone over things like a stolen apple, and chaos would ensue. Still a huge improvement from Morrowind, where the NPC's were completely static and just stood around outside no matter the weather or time of day.

honestly, they don't need more then scripts. maybe scripts with a little variety. It doesn't need to think, or waste CPU on complex calculations. Have a set of scripts, some unique to some characters, some generic that any character can do (example, shop for food). Have them do nothing unless the player can see them, at which case have them do something.


I also hope they have more voice actors this time. I'd rather they use less famous actors and more of them than to just have a handful. In Oblivion, each species only has two voice actors, one male and one female.

Which is a huge problem, its better to have no voice acting at all than badly done voice acting.
 
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motsm

Golden Member
Jan 20, 2010
1,822
2
76
They do those things. And MUCH more.

How do I know? Read the guide for the game. It gives detailed descriptions on many NPC's movements, activities, and schedules throughout their week. And then of course, you can witness and verify this for yourself.

These include going to restaurants to eat, cheating on their spouses (by "sleeping" with other NPCs), traveling to other towns, going shopping, even illegal stuff.
Don't believe me? Check out the official guide.

Just because YOU don't see it, or witness it, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Kinda like the real world. It's not thrown in your face, and they don't tell you "Oh, hai! Todayz Im going shawping!", but it is there and you can witness for yourself, if you so choose.
The problem with all that, is they don't really do any of it. Perhaps I did miss the odd NPC that had left home, but that doesn't mean they did anything while they were away, and that's my biggest point. Going shopping, working, eating, traveling, cheating, basically everything they "do" just means they stand in a particular area, and just like normal, they still do nothing but talk to each other about mud crabs.

I can't say I care if the AI's current script is called "Cheating on wife" when all that means is he stands awkwardly in a room.
 

Zenoth

Diamond Member
Jan 29, 2005
5,202
216
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A few words on the Radiant A.I.

I've made a mod for Fallout 3 (Paladin Cross Variety) in which I've tempered with what the Radiant A.I features, namely schedules/tasks at specific time and under specific conditions, etc. The engine and the Radiant A.I was upgraded from Oblivion (for Fallout 3) and so was the Radiant A.I (although they never really advertised the Radiant A.I's "augmented" features for Fallout 3, curiously). I can easily and safely say that what the Radiant A.I is technically capable of is quite good, there's a level of complexity in what it can do on paper that almost no other games out there in the same veins can achieve. They (Bethesda's coders) really did create nice features under the label of "Radiant A.I", its name may make it sound like it's the Skynet of video gaming, some kind of A.I that's supposed to be "so smart" as to be self-aware and do things on its own based on real-life like needs, that's just perception and honestly "Radiant A.I" (the name, and its advertisement) was just a marketing coup that didn't quite end up as Bethesda wanted, although it did create hype at first glance, that's until the game was released and people realized how much of a failure it was.

The thing is that the "failure" in question aren't even the Radiant A.I's features themselves, it's the very lack of usage of those features by those who created them. The point is that most Oblivion and Fallout 3 modders out there who've been modding the A.I of any of those games (or both) will be able to do way more then the developers themselves did with it, not because they are "better" then the devs (although, I guess it may be the case sometimes), but simply because they have no deadlines, no time restrictions and they can explore the entire set of features that the devs created themselves, and as I said earlier they did create nice features that we (modders, in this context) only need to use. The Radiant A.I's features could basically recreate STALKER's zones with "wandering" critters/NPCs acting based on "needs", it's a set of features such as "Sandboxing A.I", "Guarding A.I", random interactions with available triggers in the immediate environment, a chosen radius of action within which specific tasks can be achieved or forced by scripting, I don't have the vocabulary that a coder would use to describe the mechanism of the Radiant A.I, but I can assure everyone in doubt here that if the developers actually use the entire set of features that do exist "under the hood" then Skyrim will have a respectable, perhaps even borderline revolutionary A.I (at least for the type of game that they make).

I never modded the A.I to the same extent in Oblivion as I ended up doing in Fallout 3, but I did get back in the Construction Set for Oblivion months after I had finished my Fallout 3 mod, and I could immediately notice the differences in the Radiant A.I's features between the two. What Bethesda advertised for Oblivion was possible on a technical point, the features to allow NPCs to "welcome" newcomers in their home/shops exists, those to allow NPCs to target a specific entity (like the woman's dog) and cast a specific spell due to a specific condition (like the dog barking) was (and still is) possible, and they've done it for that "ad", for the advertisement, but non-modded (vanilla) Oblivion has approximately 1,000 NPCs, all unique, if they had to do what even I did for Paladin Cross in my mod for Fallout 3, to all and every single NPCs, to make them do different things everyday, every hours, every nights, every mornings, eating something different, occupying themselves differently each time they want to have a "break" out of their "work", if they had to travel from town to town (which is possible, by the way), then believe me, the game would not have been released until one or two years after its original release date.

It would have taken way too much time, and perhaps even too much computational power from the 360/PS3 (I don't know if it'd have been the case, but the engine had limits and it's a fragile engine, I can confirm it easily, if there's too much going on it's going to screw itself up soon enough). It's as if the developers had tempered with the original roots of the engine and built up so much new branches leading to so many new leaves everywhere that it just couldn't sustain itself, they milked it a lot and I believe that (according to what I've done in my Fallout 3 mod) they knew all too well that the very features they created for their cherished Radiant A.I were too numerous and perhaps complex to use in their entirety and across the entire NPC population of the game. That's for Oblivion though, why it "failed" is explainable that way, it's clear, it's right there, if you're a modder and open up the Construction Set and go check out for yourself what are the actual features of the Radiant A.I you'll see what I'm talking about, it is a good A.I if those features are used often and if values are different for each and every single NPCs in the game you'd pretty much end up with a real-world simulation (figure of speech).

In Fallout 3's case it's better, but the same problem occurred (although to a lesser extent), and that is the developers not using the whole set of features that they've created during the development of the game. As an example, it'd be completely possible to create a new NPC (along with a house for him/her, the proper furniture and so on) in the game's world, anywhere you see fit, and give that NPC a "life", tasks to accomplish, and they can be complex enough (especially compared to many other games out there, of the same type or not), you can make that NPC leave his/her house and travel to specific locations that are existing in the Construction Set, or create new locations for that NPC and give him/her schedules. That NPC could have three meals per day, go sleep and wake up (at any specified moments in the CS of course), do specific actions at newly-placed triggers in the game's world, force the NPC to "have a discussion" with other chosen NPCs, apply various flags to increase the variety of actions.

I mean, if each NPCs in the game had a complex schedule of tasks to accomplish it would be amazing but they don't have the time, which is a little ironic, since they did take the time to create the features in question, but they themselves barely used them in the end, I don't quite know why that is. At first I thought that it was for us modders, but then most modders don't temper with the A.I in any way, shape or form, they usually make new textures, models and sounds. I honestly think that the devs had good intentions and they do have the coding talent to create a good set of A.I features, I've seen it with my own eyes and I've tempered with a portion of their work, I know what it can do on paper, and therefor in the game, but only if it is used fully and as intended.

So, the bottom line is this, the Radiant A.I is good, but it was never fully exploited, and its advertisement for Oblivion came at a time when most A.I in similar games could never achieve anything near what we saw, which created a lot of hype, perhaps more than usual, too much of something is like not enough of something too, so after its release people were disappointed because they expected to see each and every single NPCs do things like we saw in the video with the woman, the visitor and the dog, but everywhere in the game without exceptions, that was just asking for too much. I hope that it will be different with Skyrim, I honestly hope so, but I highly doubt that there will be wide-spread use of complex A.I behaviors in the whole game, we might have a few NPCs here and there doing more things than others because the devs took the time to "develop" those specific NPCs more than others, just like in Oblivion and Fallout 3, but thinking that it will make every "living entities" in the game act differently than others and be completely unique is just dreaming in colors in my opinion.
 
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skace

Lifer
Jan 23, 2001
14,488
7
81
I never modded the A.I to the same extent in Oblivion as I ended up doing in Fallout 3, but I did get back in the Construction Set for Oblivion months after I had finished my Fallout 3 mod, and I could immediately notice the differences in the Radiant A.I's features between the two. What Bethesda advertised for Oblivion was possible on a technical point, the features to allow NPCs to "welcome" newcomers in their home/shops exists, those to allow NPCs to target a specific entity (like the woman's dog) and cast a specific spell due to a specific condition (like the dog barking) was (and still is) possible, and they've done it for that "ad", for the advertisement, but non-modded (vanilla) Oblivion has approximately 1,000 NPCs, all unique, if they had to do what even I did for Paladin Cross in my mod for Fallout 3, to all and every single NPCs, to make them do different things everyday, every hours, every nights, every mornings, eating something different, occupying themselves differently each time they want to have a "break" out of their "work", if they had to travel from town to town (which is possible, by the way), then believe me, the game would not have been released until one or two years after its original release date.

What you are talking about is scripting, not AI. If I have to tell every NPC in the world what to do, I haven't created AI, I've choreographed a huge play.

AI is about working in generalities. A dog is barking. Is this dog my pet? Do I want it to stop? Is magic allowed? Am I a magic user? Do I know the sleep spell? Do I have enough mana? Do I believe it is ok to cast a spell on my own pet? Is my pet somewhere I actually want it to sleep? Ok then cast the spell.

Once I've created the general logic, I can then apply it to EVERYONE in the world. Because the flow chart I've created will automatically weed out every scenario that I wouldn't want it to occur in. That is the entire point of an AI.

A player knocked over a jar. Is it my jar? How much do I like the player? How much do I care about that jar? Does my area have local enforcement? Does the player look dangerous to me? Depending on these factors I will determine what to do.

I put 30 NPCs in a town and then based on their randomly generated stats, they decide what they need to do in the town. Whether one of them wants to be the blacksmith or the baker. If the blacksmith is killed, does the baker decide smithing is more important than baking and thus switches professions with a poorer skill set? If my AI can handle just dropping 30 NPCs in a town, I've actually created a living AI.

As far as believable towns go, games like Ultima 7 (1992) convinced me a lot more than Oblivion. Hell, Nethack has better AI than Oblivion. In Nethack, a monster will pick up any item from the ground and use them against me. I can teach my dog to fetch. A vendor will call the cops on me for stealing and the cops will actually do a decent job of pursuing me. Enemies will burrow through walls to get me. Then we have Dwarf Fortress, where an entire civilization will work with entirely minimal input from me (you can't directly control anyone in DF). I think it's funny that people can't think of better AI examples than Oblivion.
 
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Martimus

Diamond Member
Apr 24, 2007
4,490
157
106
What you are talking about is scripting, not AI. If I have to tell every NPC in the world what to do, I haven't created AI, I've choreographed a huge play.

AI is about working in generalities. A dog is barking. Is this dog my pet? Do I want it to stop? Is magic allowed? Am I a magic user? Do I know the sleep spell? Do I have enough mana? Do I believe it is ok to cast a spell on my own pet? Is my pet somewhere I actually want it to sleep? Ok then cast the spell.

Once I've created the general logic, I can then apply it to EVERYONE in the world. Because the flow chart I've created will automatically weed out every scenario that I wouldn't want it to occur in. That is the entire point of an AI.

A player knocked over a jar. Is it my jar? How much do I like the player? How much do I care about that jar? Does my area have local enforcement? Does the player look dangerous to me? Depending on these factors I will determine what to do.

I put 30 NPCs in a town and then based on their randomly generated stats, they decide what they need to do in the town. Whether one of them wants to be the blacksmith or the baker. If the blacksmith is killed, does the baker decide smithing is more important than baking and thus switches professions with a poorer skill set? If my AI can handle just dropping 30 NPCs in a town, I've actually created a living AI.

As far as believable towns go, games like Ultima 7 (1992) convinced me a lot more than Oblivion. Hell, Nethack has better AI than Oblivion. In Nethack, a monster will pick up any item from the ground and use them against me. I can teach my dog to fetch. A vendor will call the cops on me for stealing and the cops will actually do a decent job of pursuing me. Enemies will burrow through walls to get me. Then we have Dwarf Fortress, where an entire civilization will work with entirely minimal input from me (you can't directly control anyone in DF). I think it's funny that people can't think of better AI examples than Oblivion.

I think you are remembering Ultima 7 with rose colored glasses. It was very much scripted. As for Nethack, that game has had 20 years worth of development, so of course it is more polished than a game with maybe a year worth of development when it came to the actual implementation of the AI scripting. Plus even though there are a lot of actions that can take place, the rules are still simpler than in Oblivion and as such it doesn't take as many resources to allow the NPC's to make those decisions. And they don't always make "smart" decisions anyway, it just is different in that you are fragile and only have one life so they seem harder than they really are.

Also a script is AI, it just isn't a complicated self adjusting AI. The characters do have a basic AI outside of the scripting, but you tell the characters what tasks they need to do in the scripting (how they do that is not scripted). Making everything think out the processes requires way too many resources to implement unless you have very few "thinking" AIs. Just looking at Gal Civ 2, the only game I know that has almost no scripting on its AI, you get extremely high amounts of time between each turn while the AI thinks through its actions, and plans ahead. Imagine if you had 1000's of those instead of just 1-7 of them as you have in Gal Civ?
 

skace

Lifer
Jan 23, 2001
14,488
7
81
I didn't mean to say Ultima 7 wasn't scripted. I meant to say that if I want a scripted NPC, Ultima did it better in 1992 than Bethesda does it now. What is the point of a fancy AI if it creates a town full of retarded NPCs doing incredibly ridiculous things (like all having the exact same discussion over and over again).

And yes, Nethack and DF are eons beyond Bethesda AI wise. Neither game may be 3d, but the AI can figure a lot of things out on it's own. Now you may say that some of that is the just the way the game is and the illusion of intelligence, but I'd rather have the illusion of a strong AI then the reality of a terribly stupid one.

I don't know the feasibility of a good AI in an Oblivion style game, but I will say if it isn't feasible then they should go back to static NPCs and stop trying.

Bethesda has created the only games where when an NPC says goodbye to me and turns to leave I can basically say with 40-50% certainty "that NPC is going to go die in the wilderness". "Oh look, that NPC just ran off to fight 12 deathclaws by itself, smart".
 

simonizor

Golden Member
Feb 8, 2010
1,312
0
0
stating one's opinion is not forcing it down other people's throat. nor is it claiming to be fact.

When a person says "This is not fun", they are make a subjective statement. This, by definition, is their opinion and not a fact.

If he said "It is a fact that you <insert insult suggesting own mental superiority> can't recognize that <insert subjective statement>" then he would be stating it to be fact.

And in order to force it down your throat he would have to aggressively pursue you, rather then stating it in an appropriate forum.

Just because you disagree with him doesn't mean he has bad etiquette.

Also note, this is not backseat moderating. Neither of you broke any rules, had you broken any rules the appropriate response would be to report you (rather then say "this is not allowed"). No rules were broken though. You are getting upset at him due to a mistaken belief that he is being rude and overbearing, where all he is really doing is politely stating an opinion that differs from yours.



bioware gets hammered because they began doing some really bad things since "The Evil" bought them out.

"Being bioware" is not a license to do whatever they want and get away with it.
And there are new RPG makers coming, they just don't have the budgets of the big names so they are relegated to being "indie", for now.
If you read the quote that I was referring to, you will clearly see that the person thinks everything they are saying is fact because they use words like "is" and "was" instead of phrases like "I believe it is" or "I think it was."

If you don't want your opinions to come off sounding like you meant them to be facts, learn how to word your sentences properly to reflect that.
 

taltamir

Lifer
Mar 21, 2004
13,576
6
76
If you read the quote that I was referring to, you will clearly see that the person thinks everything they are saying is fact because they use words like "is" and "was" instead of phrases like "I believe it is" or "I think it was."

You are wrong. There is nothing about saying "is" and "was" that make you "fact stating". It just means you think it is correct. Thinking you are correct is part of the definition of having an opinion.

If you don't want your opinions to come off sounding like you meant them to be facts, learn how to word your sentences properly to reflect that.

There is no such burden. Language does not need to be convoluted and burdened with unnecessary and redundant statements. You simply say "This game sucks", and it is understood by anyone who speaks english to be you stating your opinion.
 

Dumac

Diamond Member
Dec 31, 2005
9,391
1
0
Did I say it was??

I don't care if you said it was. I am just saying there is no Radiant A.I. It's a sham. If anyone is impressed by giving NPCs a routine schedule, then they are a lost cause.
 

namtran512

Member
Jan 2, 2011
78
0
0
If you read the quote that I was referring to, you will clearly see that the person thinks everything they are saying is fact because they use words like "is" and "was" instead of phrases like "I believe it is" or "I think it was."

If you don't want your opinions to come off sounding like you meant them to be facts, learn how to word your sentences properly to reflect that.



A forum is where you voice your opinion. This isn't a forum of professional video game reviewers where we have to be careful with our language. You simply took offense to how I put things because you are too sensitive, because you obviously like the game. I never said you couldn't like the game, but to me, when you critically look at Oblivion and then compare it to say Baldurs Gate 2 (which is an ancient game by todays standards), it's very difficult to create an argument that shows that Oblivion has better story, presentation, character development, immersion, decision making, etc.


And that's really bad if you think about it because Oblivion is supposed to improve upon Morrowind, its predecessor and it took a gigantic leap backwards in nearly every department except slightly better balanced gameplay and better graphics. Morrowind is a great example of how you're supposed to do an open ended world, and although it has many significant flaws, many hardcore roleplayers liked that game alot because despite its many flaws (of which there were MANY), it was still an overall great game. You really can't say the same about Oblivion.
 
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taltamir

Lifer
Mar 21, 2004
13,576
6
76
I don't care if you said it was. I am just saying there is no Radiant A.I. It's a sham. If anyone is impressed by giving NPCs a routine schedule, then they are a lost cause.

scripts beat the alternative of standing perfectly still.
the issue we are now having is how much is actually scripted. Not every NPC is scripted in oblivion... sure a few are, and you can find a list of those and go watch them perform their scripts (the cheating on their spouse, while you the player is watching, after having broken into their house, is rather creepy). But many others don't even have scripts aside from "stand in store/house all day, go to sleep, repeat".
 

smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
27,024
79
86
scripts beat the alternative of standing perfectly still.
the issue we are now having is how much is actually scripted. Not every NPC is scripted in oblivion... sure a few are, and you can find a list of those and go watch them perform their scripts (the cheating on their spouse, while you the player is watching, after having broken into their house, is rather creepy). But many others don't even have scripts aside from "stand in store/house all day, go to sleep, repeat".

Actually, I'd rather they stayed still in their shops all day and they focused on much needed improvements. Or maybe fired a few "AI coders" and hired a decent set of writers.
 

mizzou

Diamond Member
Jan 2, 2008
9,734
54
91
if they can write it so that AI can be optimized on multi-core CPU's that are basically the staple nowadays, then maybe they can throw in the fluff or even offer it as an option
 

Sulaco

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2003
3,825
46
91
I don't care if you said it was.

Then use the /quote system correctly.

The discussion was specifically about NPC actions, AI or otherwise. Throwing out the rants about what is or isn't AI simply was not relevant to the quoted discussions.

To the thread as a whole, yes. To what you quoted, no.
 
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JimmiG

Platinum Member
Feb 24, 2005
2,024
112
106
That NPC could have three meals per day, go sleep and wake up (at any specified moments in the CS of course), do specific actions at newly-placed triggers in the game's world, force the NPC to "have a discussion" with other chosen NPCs, apply various flags to increase the variety of actions.

That's exactly what "AI" is *not*. I don't want the NPC to have a meal at exactly 8am, 12:31pm, 5:21pm and 9:15pm every single day from some magic, never-ending supply. In fact, having actual AI might in that case do more harm than good, by messing up the schedules or causing the NPC to skip tasks.

With real AI, you'd just say "when hungry, find something to eat", and it's up to the NPC to decide when and how. He might buy food, steal food, beg for food, hunt, or simply skip a meal because he can't afford or find any food. Various parameters like wealth, honesty, hunting skill etc. might determine which action is more likely.

With real AI, you don't have to tell every NPC in detail what to do. You just define general rules and attributes. Obviously some scripting might still be used for specific things, but you're supposed to get functional cities even without scripting.
 
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QueBert

Lifer
Jan 6, 2002
23,077
1,238
126
I killed a fish in the game and it dropped a 2 lock picks, which made zero sense because what the hell's a fish doing with lock picks?
 

poohbear

Platinum Member
Mar 11, 2003
2,284
5
81
the honest truth is we're not gonna see any leaps and bounds in technology until the next gen consoles are released with new state of the art hardware. an Xbox360 is still limited by its hardware, regardless of how fancy the software engine is gonna be, there's only so much that tweaks can do to squeeze every drop of performance out of the hardware.
 

poohbear

Platinum Member
Mar 11, 2003
2,284
5
81
I killed a fish in the game and it dropped a 2 lock picks, which made zero sense because what the hell's a fish doing with lock picks?

well in a fantasy world there are "thief class" fish no? u'll accept talking dragons but not lock picking fish???
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
80,287
17,082
136
I killed a fish in the game and it dropped a 2 lock picks, which made zero sense because what the hell's a fish doing with lock picks?

Those fish try to attack you, and can do some damage. Its safe to assume they eat almost anything. If they munch on a thief as he tries to escape the Imperial City by waterway, they could also accidentally swallow gold or a lock pick.
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
80,287
17,082
136
the honest truth is we're not gonna see any leaps and bounds in technology until the next gen consoles are released with new state of the art hardware. an Xbox360 is still limited by its hardware, regardless of how fancy the software engine is gonna be, there's only so much that tweaks can do to squeeze every drop of performance out of the hardware.

Actually its already been long established good AI doesnt need much processing power at all. In fact way back in the DOS days when computers were severely limited in processing power they had to focus more on plot, story telling, and a good AI to make the game fun. Because developers can now do whatever crazy shit they want (Crysis) they are much less motivated to work on AI.
Graphics can be put on a box. Good programming? Not so much. And given what the average gamer wants these days, it wouldnt be a good selling point anyway.
 

BD2003

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
16,815
1
81
That's exactly what "AI" is *not*. I don't want the NPC to have a meal at exactly 8am, 12:31pm, 5:21pm and 9:15pm every single day from some magic, never-ending supply. In fact, having actual AI might in that case do more harm than good, by messing up the schedules or causing the NPC to skip tasks.

With real AI, you'd just say "when hungry, find something to eat", and it's up to the NPC to decide when and how. He might buy food, steal food, beg for food, hunt, or simply skip a meal because he can't afford or find any food. Various parameters like wealth, honesty, hunting skill etc. might determine which action is more likely.

With real AI, you don't have to tell every NPC in detail what to do. You just define general rules and attributes. Obviously some scripting might still be used for specific things, but you're supposed to get functional cities even without scripting.

It seems you're forgetting this is an rpg, not a city building sim. The level of AI you're looking for isn't necessary for the game. Following an NPC around and charting it's daily activities to see if it is scripted or not is just a novelty. For the actual game, you just need to breathe a little life into the NPC. It doesn't matter what's going on behind the scenes, it's enough for them not to be standing still in the same place all day long, and to be able to react to you in a believable way. You don't want NPCs to be too independent, that breaks the game. You don't want the main quest giver of the thieves guild landing in jail for months or dead cause he got caught stealing. You dont want the blacksmith walking away cause he's sick of his job, or the townspeople dying due to famine cause wolves randomly attacked the farmers. Thatd be an interesting tech demo for sure, but at the end of the day the AI is supposed to serve the game, not the other way around.
 

skace

Lifer
Jan 23, 2001
14,488
7
81
I think my biggest problem with half-ass radiant AI is that it actually detracts from my personal gameplay experience. Realizing that the NPC that runs the bakery is out shopping for bread every day at 3pm isn't "neat", it's "annoying". I see no pleasure in having to hit a wait key because coincidentally every npc I need on a trip to town is doing something else exactly when I need them. It's like getting hit by every red light on the way to work. It's realism for the sake of realism that I never really wanted.

I wanted NPCs that were better at combat, that would know how to lure me into a trap or kick a barrel at me or hide behind a secret wall. Except Bethesda has done absolutely nothing for combat AI instead spending all their time making sure the baker buys bread and goes to sleep or some NPC casts sleep to put their pet to sleep.

It's not that these things aren't bad, but they are basically the LAST things i'd ever except an AI team to be working on. Like "Hey we got everything you needed working... anndd we are bored.... so we made it so magicians cast sleep if their dogs are barking loudly! Lol!"

For instance, I put more priority on a sneak system as complex as the original Thief system over whether an NPC washes the fucking dishes. Why are the priorities in Bethesdas AI so ass backwards? In fact, I guarantee you that about 60-70&#37; of the people who play TES games play a thief character who can lockpick and steal, putting huge priority on mimicking Thief's gameplay mechanics.