Depleted uranium weapons.....illegal?

[Ferocious]

BRITISH and American coalition forces are using depleted uranium (DU) shells in the war against Iraq and deliberately flouting a United Nations resolution which classifies the munitions as illegal weapons of mass destruction.

click

 

[Mookow]

Originally posted by: Ferocious

BRITISH and American coalition forces are using depleted uranium (DU) shells in the war against Iraq and deliberately flouting a United Nations resolution which classifies the munitions as illegal weapons of mass destruction.

click

I fail to see how you can class a heavy metal penetrator as a WMD. In all my reading I have never seen DU ammo referred to as such. I'm calling shenanigans until someone else provides several links to non-hippie websites

 

[mastertech01]

Yes, please provide a link to a resolution stating that THOSE particular weapons are WMD? We used them in the prior Gulf War and ever since. It will only penetrate armor easily and does nothing to the environment AFAIK

 

[Conky]

It's not a WMD and all the liberal press that propagates this kind of BS knows it.

 

[rickn]

some DU related birth defects

that webpage has some pics of DU and its effects. Those images are not from the current conflict though

 

[mastertech01]

With all of the bio/chemical weapons SH has used against his own people how can you even imply that those birth defects were caused by DU? Just because that webpage which is obviously anti american says so?

 

[Mookow]

To go point by point:

BRITISH and American coalition forces are using depleted uranium (DU) shells in the war against Iraq true and deliberately flouting a United Nations resolution which classifies the munitions as illegal weapons of mass destruction. uncertain, likely false

DU contaminates land, causes ill-health and cancers among the soldiers using the weapons, the armies they target and civilians, leading to birth defects in children. DU dust does this, not because its radioactive, but because the human body doesn't respond well to heavy metals

Professor Doug Rokke, ex-director of the Pentagon's depleted uranium project -- a former professor of environmental science at Jacksonville University and onetime US army colonel who was tasked by the US department of defence with the post-first Gulf war depleted uranium desert clean-up -- said use of DU was a 'war crime'. opinion

Rokke said: 'There is a moral point to be made here. This war was about Iraq possessing illegal weapons of mass destruction -- yet we are using weapons of mass destruction ourselves.' He added: 'Such double-standards are repellent.' still haven't seen DU being referred to as a WMD by anyone but him

The latest use of DU in the current conflict came on Friday when an American A10 tankbuster plane fired a DU shell, killing one British soldier and injuring three others in a 'friendly fire' incident. ummm, pretty much anytime a US tank fires a non-HEAT round you can guess it has some DU in the round, A-10 standard mix is 4 DU penetrators, 1 non-DU (I forget if its explosive or incidiery)

According to a August 2002 report by the UN subcommission, laws which are breached by the use of DU shells include: the Universal Declaration of Human Rights; the Charter of the United Nations; the Genocide Convention; the Convention Against Torture; the four Geneva Conventions of 1949; the Conventional Weapons Convention of 1980; and the Hague Conventions of 1899 and 1907, which expressly forbid employing 'poison or poisoned weapons' and 'arms, projectiles or materials calculated to cause unnecessary suffering'. All of these laws are designed to spare civilians from unwarranted suffering in armed conflicts. if your tank gets hit by a DU penetrator and it manages to breach the interior, DU explosure is not your biggest problem

DU has been blamed for the effects of Gulf war syndrome -- typified by chronic muscle and joint pain, fatigue and memory loss -- among 200,000 US soldiers after the 1991 conflict. blamed, not proven

It is also cited as the most likely cause of the 'increased number of birth deformities and cancer in Iraq' following the first Gulf war. again, no direct link, just conjecture

'Cancer appears to have increased between seven and 10 times and deformities between four and six times,' according to the UN subcommission.

The Pentagon has admitted that 320 metric tons of DU were left on the battlefield after the first Gulf war, although Russian military experts say 1000 metric tons is a more accurate figure. yes, the russians who have a guess, rather than an inventory count, have a better estimate...

In 1991, the Allies fired 944,000 DU rounds or some 2700 tons of DU tipped bombs. A UK Atomic Energy Authority report said that some 500,000 people would die before the end of this century, due to radioactive debris left in the desert. the radioactivity is not high, its only really bad when ingested

The use of DU has also led to birth defects in the children of Allied veterans and is believed to be the cause of the 'worrying number of anophthalmos cases -- babies born without eyes' in Iraq. Only one in 50 million births should be anophthalmic, yet one Baghdad hospital had eight cases in just two years. Seven of the fathers had been exposed to American DU anti-tank rounds in 1991. There have also been cases of Iraqi babies born without the crowns of their skulls, a deformity also linked to DU shelling. maybe b/c saddam has unleashed chemical weapons in Iraq?

A study of Gulf war veterans showed that 67% had children with severe illnesses, missing eyes, blood infections, respiratory problems and fused fingers. I'd like to see that study

Rokke told the Sunday Herald: 'A nation's military personnel cannot wilfully contaminate any other nation, cause harm to persons and the environment and then ignore the consequences of their actions. opinion

'To do so is a crime against humanity. opinion

'We must do what is right for the citizens of the world -- ban DU.' opinion

He called on the US and UK to 'recognise the immoral consequences of their actions and assume responsibility for medical care and thorough environmental remediation'. opinion

He added: 'We can't just use munitions which leave a toxic wasteland behind them and kill indiscriminately. opinion

'It is equivalent to a war crime.' opinion

Rokke said that coalition troops were currently fighting in the Gulf without adequate respiratory protection against DU contamination. opinion

The Sunday Herald has previously revealed how the Ministry of Defence had test-fired some 6350 DU rounds into the Solway Firth over more than a decade, from 1989 to 1999.

 

[Phuz]

Yes, please provide a link to a resolution stating that THOSE particular weapons are WMD?

Lets dissect the acronym. Weapons....of Mass... Destruction. I'm sure it does just that. So considering the meaning..I think it fits the bill.
Should there be another category made for Depleted Uranium? WMMD - Weapons of Minor Mass Destruction?

 

[rickn]

Originally posted by: mastertech01
With all of the bio/chemical weapons SH has used against his own people how can you even imply that those birth defects were caused by DU? Just because that webpage which is obviously anti american says so?

well, they don't give specifics on the images. DU was used in Kosovo, Kuwait, Iraq, Bosnia. And I could care less if the page is anti-american. That isn't why I viewed it. It has images of war.

 

[drewshin]

DU contaminates land, causes ill-health and cancers among the soldiers using the weapons, the armies they target and civilians, leading to birth defects in children. DU dust does this, not because its radioactive, but because the human body doesn't respond well to heavy metals

thanks mookow, you said it yourself.

 

[BigJ]

Originally posted by: Phuz

Yes, please provide a link to a resolution stating that THOSE particular weapons are WMD?

Lets dissect the acronym. Weapons....of Mass... Destruction. I'm sure it does just that. So considering the meaning..I think it fits the bill.
Should there be another category made for Depleted Uranium? WMMD - Weapons of Minor Mass Destruction?

It causes mass destruction? So firing one DU round can take out a couple of hundred tanks and tens of thousands of soldiers? So minor mass destruction then? Well then whats a grenade? A weapon of really ultra minor mass destruction?

If u think DU munitions are weapons of mass destruction, have u taken a look at what else we're using out there?

 

[mastertech01]

Originally posted by: rickn

Originally posted by: mastertech01
With all of the bio/chemical weapons SH has used against his own people how can you even imply that those birth defects were caused by DU? Just because that webpage which is obviously anti american says so?

well, they don't give specifics on the images. DU was used in Kosovo, Kuwait, Iraq, Bosnia. And I could care less if the page is anti-american. That isn't why I viewed it. It has images of war.

Yes war is hell, no doubt about it. But if you were to view the images of concentration camps in full living color you would be just as sick. If you view the after effects of SH poisoning of his own people by the thousands you would be even more sick knowing that it occured in a modern day country while the world sat back and watched. We cant take back what has already been done, but we can take action to prevent SH from doing it again. And it will cost lives to do it. Its very sad but it must be done. IMHO

 

[Mookow]

Originally posted by: drewshin

DU contaminates land, causes ill-health and cancers among the soldiers using the weapons, the armies they target and civilians, leading to birth defects in children. DU dust does this, not because its radioactive, but because the human body doesn't respond well to heavy metals

thanks mookow, you said it yourself.

link

"DoD conducted over 34 experiments designed to measure the amount of DU that may be inhaled. This includes DU munitions hitting a variety of armored vehicles as well as fires involving depleted uranium munitions. What we have consistently found is that levels may exceed peacetime safety standards only if you are in, on or near - less than 50 meters - a vehicle at the time it is hit by a DU munition.

"Almost as soon as the round hits and the dust has settled, the standards on the outside of the vehicle will rapidly fall to levels that are a lot lower than the safety standards," he said.

Considering the part in bold, I would have to say that the effects of it after it is dispersed by wind, water, etc, are neglible. So, since the only people that could really be effected are the guys within 50 meters of impact, and considering that the armor on a T-72 (the best tank the Iraqis have in quantity) is almost always going to be ineffective against US fired DU rounds, the only people at risk are the guys outside the tanks, but within 50 meters, NOT "soldiers using the weapons... and civilians, leading to birth defects in children". The targets that get hit by DU usually dont have to worry about the long term effects of DU. Only the guys around the targets.

EDIT: link #2
link #3

Second, some of the opposition is the result of a successful Iraqi disinformation campaign claiming that exposure to DU had caused thousands of cancers and birth defects to innocent civilians. When the WHO offered to investigate the claims, Iraqi officials flatly refused the offer

Link #4

A 2001 WHO study found that DU's hazards are "likely to be very small." A RAND Corporation study in 1999 and another 2001 project funded by the European Parliament concurred.

 

[BigJ]

Originally posted by: Mookow
The targets that get hit by DU usually dont have to worry about the long term effects of DU.

The truth. If you're an Iraqi, and in a tank that gets hit by DU, you don't have to worry about pretty much anything.

 

[LH]

The cancer rates in Iraq are directly caused by the millions(billions?) of barrels of oil that burned for a YEAR after Iraq invaded Kuwait and set all the oil wells on fire when they retreated. To this day that event in 1991 is still causing massive ecological damage in Kuwait and Iraq. Theres a thin layer of oil about 6 to 12 inches under the sand in southern Iraq and Kuwait