Denuvo Anti-Tamper (anti-piracy solution)

[ImpulsE69]

I think they need to come up with a type of DRM that melts the users PC. Then after the PC is melted it summons Hades from the ashes who in turn rips out the hearts of everyone in the household and burns down the house and salts the earth it sat upon. Their hearts are delivered on a platter to the CEOs who then feast on them gaining all their power and knowledge.

It's the only way to be sure.

If it accidentally slaughters a few legit paying customers....oh well, it's worth it.

 

[bystander36]

Bolded = irrelevant.

Look, you can argue about morality to feel good all day long and pirates are still going to pirate. Or, you can be smart about the whole thing and convert pirates into paying customers by offering a better product than pirated versions at compelling prices like what Steam is doing. Actually making money or earning only brownie points, the choice is clear.

Do you really believe that you can do anything to get a Pirates money, short of it being the only way for them to play a game they really want to play? Don't let most fool you into believing they only Pirate due to DRM's or what not. They do it because it's free.

There is one system that has proven fool proof. Unfortunately I'm not sure I like that as well as most DRM's. Online only games. WoW, D3 and the like do not have a pirating problem.

But I do agree with the idea of finding a better way. Most DRM's have not worked, at least in the long term. Though we do not know, and cannot really know what they currently have done.

 

[tential]

Do you really believe that you can do anything to get a Pirates money, short of it being the only way for them to play a game they really want to play? Don't let most fool you into believing they only Pirate due to DRM's or what not. They do it because it's free.

There is one system that has proven fool proof. Unfortunately I'm not sure I like that as well as most DRM's. Online only games. WoW, D3 and the like do not have a pirating problem.

But I do agree with the idea of finding a better way. Most DRM's have not worked, at least in the long term. Though we do not know, and cannot really know what they currently have done.

If a pirate wants to play a game for free, why would foolproof DRM make them pay for the game? They simply play another free game.

Why is this concept so hard for people to get? Unless EVERY SINGLE GAME has foolproof DRM, this concept doesn't work.

You're making some crazy assumption that Pirates won't wait 1-8 weeks for a game to be cracked and HAVE TO PLAY THE GAME NOW. Just because a lot of you guys buy a game at launch at full price, doesn't mean a pirate won't wait for a game to be cracked.

 

[ImpulsE69]

If a pirate wants to play a game for free, why would foolproof DRM make them pay for the game? They simply play another free game.

Why is this concept so hard for people to get? Unless EVERY SINGLE GAME has foolproof DRM, this concept doesn't work.

You're making some crazy assumption that Pirates won't wait 1-8 weeks for a game to be cracked and HAVE TO PLAY THE GAME NOW. Just because a lot of you guys buy a game at launch at full price, doesn't mean a pirate won't wait for a game to be cracked.

Actually I think you hit the nail on the head. Many on these forums seem to be the obsessive compulsive types. They do not understand not everyone is like that. It usually is the cause of much frustration that they can't see outside their own bubble. I blame Mark Zuckerberg.

 

[bystander36]

If a pirate wants to play a game for free, why would foolproof DRM make them pay for the game? They simply play another free game.

Why is this concept so hard for people to get? Unless EVERY SINGLE GAME has foolproof DRM, this concept doesn't work.

You're making some crazy assumption that Pirates won't wait 1-8 weeks for a game to be cracked and HAVE TO PLAY THE GAME NOW. Just because a lot of you guys buy a game at launch at full price, doesn't mean a pirate won't wait for a game to be cracked.

I didn't make an assumption, it seems more like you have. I said the only way to get most pirates to pay, is if they want to a play a game that can't be played without paying. WoW, D3 and others have been out years and they still require payment to play.

As far as waiting 1-8 weeks. You are right that many pirates will wait. Some will not. And who is to say it will be cracked in 1-8 weeks.

We really do not know how many end up paying to play a game now. It is a number between 0-100%. DRM's are not about all or nothing.

I am open to a better way, but I don't believe we should give up either.

 

[Jodell88]

I think they need to come up with a type of DRM that melts the users PC. Then after the PC is melted it summons Hades from the ashes who in turn rips out the hearts of everyone in the household and burns down the house and salts the earth it sat upon. Their hearts are delivered on a platter to the CEOs who then feast on them gaining all their power and knowledge.

It's the only way to be sure.

If it accidentally slaughters a few legit paying customers....oh well, it's worth it.

I bet if this was to actually happen, the pirates computers will be fine, and it would be legit users with the melted computers. :biggrin::biggrin:

 

[Omar F1]

"Expect cracks for all Denuvo games to start flooding the internet. In fact, there’re cracks for Lords of the Fallen already doing the rounds, and according to anecdotal evidence, cracking the game actually increases performance."
http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=194413

As I said before Denuvo style DRM doesn't work on the PC. The way to combat piracy on the PC is to make games affordable specific to the geographical region based on their income levels/purchasing power. You don't ask someone in Russia, China, Brazil, Egypt, or India, etc. to pay $10,000-20,000 for cancer treatment pills or Hepatitis, but it's common for Big Pharma to charge that in the U.S. based on income levels and how medical insurance works. That's why drugs cost 20-100X less in the developing world. It doesn't matter at all that it costs billions in R&D and an experienced worker at Big Pharma firms making 6-figures. This is common sense for anyone who went to business school and understands how economics and capitalism work:

http://m.naturalnews.com/news/044463_Big_Pharma_profiteering_Sovaldi_overpriced_drugs.html

Similarly, it makes absolutely no sense to charge $50-60 + $20-30 DLC for PC games in countries where income is $300-700 a month. Until publishers get this point, their games will get pirated to no end on the PC in the developing countries.

Also, releasing bug ridden, glitchy and poor performing PC games and charging $50-60 launch prices, while spending the next 6-12 months patching them, isn't helping:

http://www.techspot.com/news/59106-op-ed-new-video-games-shouldnt-broken.html

If you don't like it that Crysis 3 costs $3.10 in Russia/Central Asia on Origin right now, then go ahead and move to those countries. It's no secret that Steam and Origin charge completely different prices in countries like Brazil and Russia but many traditional publishers are too stubborn to get this and instead of making $3-10, they make $0 because a gamer just chooses to pirate the game.

Seriously it is the same with Windows OS. Once Apple started releasing free updates to OSX and charge small $30-40 fee for a standalone, people no longer want to pay $100-200 for MS OS. It is no wonder MS was so aggressive with $40 W7 upgrade pricing to lure in XP users.

Imo buggy and glitchy games are also an additional factor as to why piracy is so high in the developing world. In North America, $60 for a game for a professional is nothing. If the game sucks / broken mess, he can just buy another game. Someone making $500 a month can't just do that and expects a $60 game to work like a $60 game from day 1. Most PC games are not worth $60 on release given the current state they ship in. U.S. gamers often just accept it as the norm that a game has bugs, glitches and crap performance that will be ironed out in 6 months. They don't punish the developer by NOT preordering the sequel and waiting for the developer/publisher to prove that the sequel has addressed the concerns of the past. The culture of 1st world of "I must have it immediately" and much higher income levels on avg. feed into the support for the $60 game pricing too.

Well, happy news about cracking that DRM, and Bioware deserve it.
As been said millions of times already, trash types of DRM only bother and cripple the legitimate buyers!
And I for one, I won't support and buy DA:I until it's dirt cheap.

As for the lower prices over some regions, actually this is a problem too.
Unfortunately, you know already that a lot of people are using some ways to hide their IP and purchase it from a cheaper store.

 

[Omar F1]

At one point there was no law against drinking and driving. In fact, in some countries you can drink and drive a reasonable amount while in others you can't drive for 24 hours after even 1 drink. Laws change all the time:

https://torrentfreak.com/swiss-govt-downloading-movies-and-music-will-stay-legal-111202/

Sometimes piracy is good. For example, hearing an artist on YouTube or downloading a couple songs and then you actually go to a concert and pay $60-200 to see them and then later pay $ for FLAC files of their songs. Free exposure can be good for musicians long-term. It's like a game demo or taking a car for a test drive before you buy it. Imagine if you were asked to pay $ to demo a game or test drive a car? Most game companies stopped free game demos because they know most of their games are boring, rehashed sequels and glitchy. It's better for them to market the game with pre-order bonuses to hide how avg or even poor the game is.

I know lots of people who download free electronica music but then go to a lot of concerts of the same artists. The artists make far more off the concerts than off music CD sales. I am not trying to promote piracy but people who say in all cases piracy is 100% worse don't know the facts. There are plenty of gamers who try out a pirated game and then buy the full version or buy the full version and get the no CD pirated crack without DRM.

Definitely agree.
For one, I think the software piracy in general, has generated more sales for the PC over the years.
Here in the Middle east for example, a lot of people used to barely afford the PC price alone and that's it, God help all the software developers, because they got it all for free.

You want another benefit for piracy? if it was only either a legal purchase or nothing for the games, then I and many other kids would had stopped playing games altogether, since we simply couldn't afford it at all back then, and for that we wouldn't been still a gamers nowadays.
Well, after I got a job since few years ago, I've spent around few thousand of bucks over PC hardware (Gfx cards mostly), PC games, and other software. I consider that a benefit for both the PC hardware industry and games developers as well, and I'm not the only one who did it that way.

 

[escrow4]

3DM has cracked the DRM but Dragon Age Keep is dead, so you are stuck with the default world state, unless they can come up with a way to inject your saves . . . . . :whiste:

 

[Carfax83]

3DM has cracked the DRM but Dragon Age Keep is dead, so you are stuck with the default world state, unless they can come up with a way to inject your saves . . . . . :whiste:

From what I've read, they haven't actually cracked the DRM. They are using an emulator to fool Denuvo into thinking that Origin is running when it isn't..

Also, the pirated experience is definitely inferior to a retail copy in that it's buggy and unstable..

 

[SPBHM]

3DM has cracked the DRM but Dragon Age Keep is dead, so you are stuck with the default world state, unless they can come up with a way to inject your saves . . . . . :whiste:

funny how they removed the option to directly import the old save, DA2 had it, and also the Mass Effect games.

I personally dislike the need to open a web browser and log in accounts to import my old saves, the old solution was better, as for the pirate version, I wouldn't be surprised if at some point someone creates a tool to customize the world state outside of the official service... but for now, yes, I don't think the cracked game can long in to origin and such.

 

[tential]

Well, happy news about cracking that DRM, and Bioware deserve it.
As been said millions of times already, trash types of DRM only bother and cripple the legitimate buyers!
[]b]And I for one, I won't support and buy DA:I until it's dirt cheap.[/b]

As for the lower prices over some regions, actually this is a problem too.
Unfortunately, you know already that a lot of people are using some ways to hide their IP and purchase it from a cheaper store.

Which is why I don't get this.

Why is it that people believe pirates will jump from spending 0 dollars on a product, to spending $60+DLCs on it?

I won't even spend $60 on it, you won't even spend $60 on it, many others won't even spend $60 on it, so why is that pirates who dont' spend money will all of a sudden jump to $60? It's obvious they'll wait til A) it's cracked, or B) it's bargain bin <$5.00

 

[StrangerGuy]

Which is why I don't get this.

Why is it that people believe pirates will jump from spending 0 dollars on a product, to spending $60+DLCs on it?

I won't even spend $60 on it, you won't even spend $60 on it, many others won't even spend $60 on it, so why is that pirates who dont' spend money will all of a sudden jump to $60? It's obvious they'll wait til A) it's cracked, or B) it's bargain bin <$5.00

In the meantime they will just play Dota2, LoL, Hearthstone and other F2P games, other countless pirated games out there, and surprise, other forms of entertainment. Even pirates like everybody else only have a finite time for anything.

If anyone just want to see the story of they can simply just play DA:I - Youtube Let's Play Edition, for some it's as good as actually playing the game for free. I can't believe the anti-pirate brigade hasn't started a lynching mob on that yet.

 

[escrow4]

From what I've read, they haven't actually cracked the DRM. They are using an emulator to fool Denuvo into thinking that Origin is running when it isn't..

Also, the pirated experience is definitely inferior to a retail copy in that it's buggy and unstable..

That sounds close to what happens to cracked Steam games. Its a lot easier to fool/obfuscate bits and .dll's then straight up shred the DRM (if that is even possible).

 

[BudAshes]

The real problem with most DRM is that the cracked versions tend to be better than the real versions. Essentially the people using the free version are getting a better version than the people who paid for it.

 

[PrincessFrosty]

The real problem with most DRM is that the cracked versions tend to be better than the real versions. Essentially the people using the free version are getting a better version than the people who paid for it.

A lot of people buy the game legit and then install the cracks simply because they don't want the torrent of vile, putrid spyware that is origin and uplay and all that rotting bile anywhere near their PC.

I've been enjoying FC4 on and off, I got a key for it free with my GTX980, but i'll be damned if I'm installing ubisofts crapbloatware rubbish, so just grabbed a torrent.

It's just what happens when developers make products that are inferior to the cracked versions, if you're going to go out of your way to be a dick to your customers then some are going to pirate or crack the game, it's just common sense.

 

[Tech_Greek]

Again this is just a straw man, it doesn't need to be bug that doesn't make the game run, just something that breaks a core mechanic, causes performance issues so bad it's unplayable. And yes I've had lots of game breaking bugs over the years, and no it's nothing to do with my specific system, I've worked in IT for 15 years now, I keep my gaming rig in great condition.

Yep, I own an IT Consulting company and AC Unity (that I made the mistake of installing since it came with my video card - random restarts and hard locks galore in that game, no other installed give me THAT bad of an issue (and I have a LOT of games installed).

There was one particular mission where I couldn't get past a rope I needed to climb across to assassinate someone. It literally would hard lock, no matter which direction I took, even in offline mode. I decided to wait until the next day, nothing changed (temps were the exact same during the hang ups and the next day) except time and all of a sudden the area worked just fine. I'm assuming it had something to do with Ubisoft's U Play but I couldn't prove it and just moved on.

If more games had demos I think Torrent usage would decline in people downloading full versions.This is my biggest complaint, e.g. I wouldn't even have contemplated buying Sim City knowing how bad it was on launch and it is a prime example of why demos need to still be around (or a timed trial).

I have to research any game now instead of just playing a few example areas/levels/whatever in a quick demo download or figure out which games my friends bought and if they regret buying it.

 

[Anteaus]

The real problem with most DRM is that the cracked versions tend to be better than the real versions. Essentially the people using the free version are getting a better version than the people who paid for it.

There are no free versions. If you purchase the game and then apply the mod, you get the same performance benefit (should that be what the implication is). I'm completely supportive of fans who create mods for legal owners to use if it improves the game experience, whether that means removing DRM or tweaking the game engine.

If there is a version of a particular game available through shady channels and you want to play it because it performs better than the RTM then that is ok, but ethically you should still buy the game.

There are no free versions, only illegally distributed ones. Whatever justification someone might have for acquiring illegally distributed software doesn't supersede the need to buy the software license. In other words, feel free to download the pirated version and play it if you feel it performs better, but you should still buy the game.

 

[nurturedhate]

Yep, I own an IT Consulting company and AC Unity (that I made the mistake of installing since it came with my video card - random restarts and hard locks galore in that game, no other installed give me THAT bad of an issue (and I have a LOT of games installed).

There was one particular mission where I couldn't get past a rope I needed to climb across to assassinate someone. It literally would hard lock, no matter which direction I took, even in offline mode. I decided to wait until the next day, nothing changed (temps were the exact same during the hang ups and the next day) except time and all of a sudden the area worked just fine. I'm assuming it had something to do with Ubisoft's U Play but I couldn't prove it and just moved on.

If more games had demos I think Torrent usage would decline in people downloading full versions.This is my biggest complaint, e.g. I wouldn't even have contemplated buying Sim City knowing how bad it was on launch and it is a prime example of why demos need to still be around (or a timed trial).

I have to research any game now instead of just playing a few example areas/levels/whatever in a quick demo download or figure out which games my friends bought and if they regret buying it.

Your experience with AC:Unity and SimCity is the reason demos no longer exist.

 

[Tech_Greek]

You're right, they wouldn't be able to shove bull...stuff out the door and sell it. I love the recent not going to give you a copy to review but it's not an embargo. 0_o

 

[PrincessFrosty]

Yep, I own an IT Consulting company and AC Unity (that I made the mistake of installing since it came with my video card - random restarts and hard locks galore in that game, no other installed give me THAT bad of an issue (and I have a LOT of games installed).

There was one particular mission where I couldn't get past a rope I needed to climb across to assassinate someone. It literally would hard lock, no matter which direction I took, even in offline mode.

Yeah and it gets worse the more uncommon your system is, if you're running SLI/Xfire or you have an unusually large screen (many games have had issues with my 2560x1600 panel over the years) I remember The Witcher 2 wouldn't even start in that res, it took something like over 24 hours for people with panels larger than 1920x1080 to work out what the issue was.

It's just a basic lack of testing in many cases and a general movement towards release now and patch later, that's a mentality that we didn't used to have, and it's increased slowly over time to the point where some games are literally released half finished.

Honestly I have no moral issue with people torrenting games for them to act like demos, if you grab the game via torrents, try it and like it then go straight to your favorite store and buy a copy, then no harm no foul. That's purely a moral stance, not a legal one, torrenting is still illegal.

The trick is to make sure that if you like the game and it works to make sure you pay for it, if you only half play it or you thought it was crap maybe wait for the price to come down a bit.

 

[Red Hawk]

funny how they removed the option to directly import the old save, DA2 had it, and also the Mass Effect games.

I personally dislike the need to open a web browser and log in accounts to import my old saves, the old solution was better, as for the pirate version, I wouldn't be surprised if at some point someone creates a tool to customize the world state outside of the official service... but for now, yes, I don't think the cracked game can long in to origin and such.

The old way of directly importing game saves ran into problems when the previous game had bugs in how it flagged things in the save file. An infamous example of this is the Conrad Verner bug in Mass Effect 2. In ME1, you could be nice or mean to him, but even if you import a save into ME2 where you were nice to him, ME2 thinks you were mean to him. It didn't get patched because the bug didn't really lie with ME2, but with how ME1 had recorded that scenario.

A system like the Dragon Age Keep can still (and does) have bugs, but it's much simpler to patch than going back to the previous game. The Dragon Age Keep also allows you to pretty quickly go back and create a new world state to see how things turn out, without having to play through the previous games all over again.

 

[tential]

So I hear this game is cracked for real now? Can't import your old save, but still cracked...

 

[Rakehellion]

So I hear this game is cracked for real now? Can't import your old save, but still cracked...

Heard from where? Link?

 

[psychosiz]

As others have said, its really only a matter of time and interest. I see many of the points people are making. Personally if I want to play a game bad enough and can afford it I will. If I can't afford it, I wait until the price comes down. Some systems are horrible and I avoid all games from them. I have issues downloading from Origin as well as lots and lots of issues with Ubisoft and that mess of a system they have over there.