Dentists problem

[Muse]

Decades ago I went to a dentist recommended by a friend who was his dental assistant. That dentist retired and I became the patient of that dentist's underling, a DDS, obviously, and I've been his patient ever since. The last year or two I began to wonder when he'd retire and I got a letter about 6 weeks ago and I knew what it was before opening it: The announcement of his retiring and it said he would retire at the end of 2019. The 2nd half of that single page one-sided letter was devoted to his recommendation of a colleague who practices in our town. He did say that the decision to recommend that man took some time, which raised my eyebrows.

So happens I had a cleaning/inspection/xrays/whatever scheduled for Dec. 10. At that appointment I asked my retiring dentist what he thought of my getting on the dental supplemental plan of my HMO, Kaiser Permanente. My sister, who used to go to the same dentist tells me she has done this and it's saving her a lot of money. Well, my dentist says to me in no uncertain terms that going with Kaiser's plan would be a serious mistake. I'd get substandard dental care, I'd be seen by a dentist who was only with the plan because they couldn't get enough patients on their own. They can't cover their overhead with the money they make doing that, etc.

Before I leave I make my next appointment for cleaning, etc. with the new dentist, who happens to live a 1/2 mile from retiring dentist in the suburbs. My dental records would be sent to his office, I was given to believe by my dentist. I'm asked if I can pay for today's appointment on the spot to prevent unnecessary difficulties. I say sure and pull out my credit card.

Now, about 10 days later I see a thread at Nextdoor for my town asking who is the best dentist in the town! Naturally, I read this with great interest and my new dentist (who I haven't met yet, of course) is not mentioned. Instead I see many other dentists recommended. I see one guy put down intensely, followed by a post from a resident who totally disagrees. There's one dentist, however, who got at least 6 recommendations, including by someone I know personally. These people are saying this guy's just the greatest dentist. One also said he takes all kinds of insurance (would he accept me as a referral from my HMO, I have no idea, I figure a real good chance not. However, I can afford to see "my own dentist." I figure my health comes first, and dentistry is for me something I'm willing to splurge on). Well, I figure I should maybe see THAT highly recommended guy in the Nextdoor thread and not my retiring dentist's colleague neighbor.

8 days ago, December 20 (same day I encounter this thread at Nextdoor), I send my retiring dentist a detailed email asking him what he thinks, including the edited pertinent remarks in the thread about best dentists in town. He's supposed to be still practicing until the end of the year, but I do not hear back from him. About 3 days ago I call his office and the phone is answered by an assistant in the office of the guy my retiring dentist recommends. I'm WTF! I explain to the woman that I had emailed Dr. Retiring and wondered why I hadn't gotten a reply. She asked what my inquiry was about, was it a personal matter or a dental matter. I said both, truly, the subject of the email was "Couple of things." I didn't want to go into the details with her, i.e. about my thinking about not seeing her boss.

Now, unspoken is this: Dr. Retiring is sending my dental records to Dr. Friend. If I decide to go to Dr. Recommended-in-thread, can I be sure I can get my records sent to THAT office? I didn't say that. Woman assures me she'll intercede for me in getting Dr. Retiring (who I always liked, but now I'm beginning to wonder) to respond to me. Still, I hear nothing for ~2 days and call yesterday (Friday) knowing I'll get Dr. Friend's office (well, Dr. Retiring never practiced on Friday anyway), but no one answers. Well, it is the "holidays," I think to myself.

OK, so my question is how certain can I be that my dental records will go to whatever dentist I decide to see under these circumstances?

 

[Muse]

Bump... nobody has the patience to read my carefully composed sincere post? I don't think the question posed at the end is so difficult, I just don't personally know the answer. Anybody?

 

[mike8675309]

How do you make sure your records get where you want to? The easiest way is for you to pick them up yourself and take them to the new dentist. You can use a thumb drive if the records are electronic and just tell them to put them on the drive.

 

[Muse]

How do you make sure your records get where you want to? The easiest way is for you to pick them up yourself and take them to the new dentist. You can use a thumb drive if the records are electronic and just tell them to put them on the drive.

Thanks. I kind of doubt that the records will be digital, at least not all of them. Don't know for sure. Yeah, I'm totally capable of picking them up and delivering personally, esp. because all offices are in my town and I'm good on my bicycle! I was just nervous about getting the offices to relinquish them, which I suppose is silly.

 

[killster1]

Bump... nobody has the patience to read my carefully composed sincere post? I don't think the question posed at the end is so difficult, I just don't personally know the answer. Anybody?

yea i actually read the entire post and was confused, of course he recommends his friend (possibly who paid him for his old clients) of course hes not going to email you back. no one likes to email stuff back. As far as hmo of course you wont get as good of care since they will constantly be switching who you see depending day of the week or what ever like if you go to the dr at kaiser then you go to a new dr each time!

 

[Muse]

yea i actually read the entire post and was confused, of course he recommends his friend (possibly who paid him for his old clients) of course hes not going to email you back. no one likes to email stuff back. As far as hmo of course you wont get as good of care since they will constantly be switching who you see depending day of the week or what ever like if you go to the dr at kaiser then you go to a new dr each time!

Gee, I don't know. My sister said she switched from my Dr. Retiring to my HMO's "advantage" program extension, which includes dental. I think she said she could find someone she likes and stick with them, but she wasn't set on someone. Anyway, she's moving to Maui in the summer, so guess her settling on someone isn't important right now at all. But I figure it may well be true that I'm likely not going to get as good dental treatment with my HMO's plan as with a dentist I choose and pay for out of pocket, which is what I've done for 30+ years, always the same office, though. I almost never had any reason to think about changing. Didn't feel like the guy was making a fortune on me, etc. I liked him, he had a genuine sense of humor that didn't discount what matters.

 

[Gardener]

I've never had a problem having my new dentist obtain records from my old dentist. Ask your new dentist to request them. Either they are there, or they are not.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Muse I ran across the same problem that you are having many years ago !
I ended up paying what they called a handling fee and they put them on a CD disk for me and I was on my way!!

 

[Muse]

Muse I ran across the same problem that you are having many years ago !
I ended up paying what they called a handling fee and they put them on a CD disk for me and I was on my way!!

Not sure at all my old dentist would have digitized all his records. That would seem to be a monumental task given all his patients. At my appointments I am 99% sure he wasn't looking at a computer monitor. He had a physical folder, xrays. It wouldn't surprise me if he just boxed up his folders and had them delivered to his friend/colleague DDS, who's in the same town. I figure I can manage getting the files if I persist.

 

[skyking]

we have fired a dentist before and got all the records. we insisted, and they gave us the hard copies and we hand carried them to the new dentist.
I needed a filling on the lower right, and for some reason my body has built extra pathways for the nerves. I'm a real pain in the ass to numb up on the lowers, especially the right.
The dentist group that we fired wouldn't allow enough time to get me numb and they tried twice to do this filling and then cancelled, after shooting me all full of Novocaine and trying and hurting me.
Then he has his daughter, a brand new dentist, give it a try. She failed and then blamed it that it was psychosomatic. Could you imagine trying to fake that lovely electric feeling that drilling into a live nerve gives you?
I was livid. luckily my wife worked in a medical office complex with a dentist nearby and got a recommendation.
This guy went in knowing it was going to be a problem and drilled right into the lower jaw bone. That worked like a charm. after a while he figured out a technique that worked on me that just involved a lot more novocaine mixed with the other anesthetic, and time. he basically allows another half hour of chair time for me to just sit and get numb on the bottom jaw.
just be prepared for a whole new set of X-rays. we have certain specifications for our dentist. Initially, we liked to get a younger dentist who are needing to pay off their loans and have better hours so that I don't have to take time off work
Now our focus is more on continuity. If a dentist has a lot of turnover in his office, we tend to move on because that means it's a shitty place to work. my wife laid it out in simple terms for him.
Surprisingly it worked. His revolving door policy ended. The same hygienist has been cleaning my teeth for several years now.

 

[Muse]

My Dr. Retiring DDS had some turnover, definitely. I didn't have the feeling that it was a shitty place to work, though. Everybody in his office except him was female. His Scandinavian (I think, she had a real accent) receptionist was with him 30+ years. The last few years his wife would come in at least one day/week (Mondays) to sub-out the receptionist. I don't know if it was to give the aging receptionist more time off or was to save some money. I figure maybe both. His prices did go up the last few years but I hung in there anyway. I was figuring him to retire in the not too distant future, guess he was saving up $$$ for retirement. Even so, I figure he and his staff weren't making a killing. It's the guys who do root canals and other oral surgeon types who seem to make the bigger money in dentistry. I had one root canal and the price tag made my dentist look like a bargain. Well into 4 figures. Same for the oral surgery I had a few years ago, almost $2000. I took it all philosophically. I'm mostly pretty frugal, but figure when it comes to health, don't skimp. Knock on wood, I seem to steer clear of the expensive stuff. Plus I'm on Medicare and with my HMO, costs have not been high, and I've managed to stay fundamentally healthy. My most expensive type treatments have been orthopedic... the shoulder surgery and a foot surgery, the first through COBRA, the second with my HMO.

So, I'll probably go to that guy who got 1/2 dozen recommendations at Nextdoor. I will ask if he participates in my HMO's dental plan, though, but don't expect that he will and I'll probably just not enroll in my HMO's plan and do out of pocket with the highly recommended guy.

It's interesting that Dr. Retiring said that he'd never had a cavity in his life! I asked him about that recently and he attributes it to good genes. He said his mother also never had a cavity!

 

[imported_Irse]

You are entitled to a copy of your dental records. Ask for a copy of them. You probably should have done that when you last saw your retiring dentist. If your new dentist requests your records he/she may not get them unless you signed a release. In fact, it would be against HIPAA policy for the dentist who has your records to release them to your new dentist without the release.

 

[Muse]

You are entitled to a copy of your dental records. Ask for a copy of them. You probably should have done that when you last saw your retiring dentist. If your new dentist requests your records he/she may not get them unless you signed a release. In fact, it would be against HIPAA policy for the dentist who has your records to release them to your new dentist without the release.

Oh, boy. Why didn't my retiring dentist tell me these things? I guess I have to deal with the dentist he decided I should go to now, i.e. his colleague neighbor. Presumably he's going to have my records. I'm going to call his office. They do know how to contact my retiring dentist, no question. The two doctors are buddies (well, kind of, I really don't know what their relationship is).

You're saying I had to sign a release for my retiring dentist for him to legitimately give my records to my next dentist. No mention was made of that at my last appointment, Dec. 10, 2019. This is some crazy Sh_t.

 

[mike8675309]

Oh, boy. Why didn't my retiring dentist tell me these things? I guess I have to deal with the dentist he decided I should go to now, i.e. his colleague neighbor. Presumably he's going to have my records. I'm going to call his office. They do know how to contact my retiring dentist, no question. The two doctors are buddies (well, kind of, I really don't know what their relationship is).

You're saying I had to sign a release for my retiring dentist for him to legitimately give my records to my next dentist. No mention was made of that at my last appointment, Dec. 10, 2019. This is some crazy Sh_t.

For any medical practitioner in the United States to release records, or even talk about your case with another they will need a signed release from you. Now, the signed release doesn't have to say things like "I authorize dr blank to share my records with dr newblank" But there will need to be some form that says "I authorize blank to perform on my behalf the sharing of records with any agency that I request them to do so"

That may have been one of the many forms you may have filled out when visiting your dentist in the past.

I would just call the new dentist, ask if they got your records. And then decide what to do from there.

 

[pete6032]

When I have switched dentists I just call the old one and ask to have records transferred to the new dentist and they do it. Are there specific things you are concerned about with records? Most dentists will just take an Xray and base their treatment on the latest Xray.

 

[imported_Irse]

When I have switched dentists I just call the old one and ask to have records transferred to the new dentist and they do it. Are there specific things you are concerned about with records? Most dentists will just take an Xray and base their treatment on the latest Xray.

I guess that would be like a verbal consent. But the new dentist shouldn't be able to call the old dentist and get the records without the patient consenting.

 

[imported_Irse]

Oh, boy. Why didn't my retiring dentist tell me these things? I guess I have to deal with the dentist he decided I should go to now, i.e. his colleague neighbor. Presumably he's going to have my records. I'm going to call his office. They do know how to contact my retiring dentist, no question. The two doctors are buddies (well, kind of, I really don't know what their relationship is).

You're saying I had to sign a release for my retiring dentist for him to legitimately give my records to my next dentist. No mention was made of that at my last appointment, Dec. 10, 2019. This is some crazy Sh_t.

If he sold his practice to the new guy, then probably not.

 

[Muse]

If he sold his practice to the new guy, then probably not.

Is that legal? Is that ethical? SOLD IT??? I'm incredulous! If that's what happened, I figure I should go elsewhere. It didn't cross my mind that money changed hands on that one. He certainly never alluded to that.

 

[Muse]

When I have switched dentists I just call the old one and ask to have records transferred to the new dentist and they do it. Are there specific things you are concerned about with records? Most dentists will just take an Xray and base their treatment on the latest Xray.

My dental history with this guy is lengthy (maybe 45+ years!), and complex. Several crowns, repairs of various kinds. Seems to me that xrays may not be sufficient.

 

[imported_Irse]

Is that legal? Is that ethical? SOLD IT??? I'm incredulous! If that's what happened, I figure I should go elsewhere. It didn't cross my mind that money changed hands on that one. He certainly never alluded to that.

Happens all the time. In fact it's odd if a practice (along with charts) is not sold.

 

[Muse]

Happens all the time. In fact it's odd if a practice (along with charts) is not sold.

Could have been, guess I'll never know. Kind of creeps me out, honestly.

Well, just got this email (response from my email of Dec. 20) from my former dentist:

<my name>, I only know of Dr. <highly recommended in thread> through dental society meetings. From what I can tell, he is a very careful and conscientious dentist. But I also know Dr. <colleague/friend> is the same way and I know him pretty well. Either way you go, your records are with Dr. <colleague/friend> and you can request a copy to be sent to wherever you want. you should also of course have Dr. <dental surgeon> send the reports about that cuspid with the resorption.

thank you for the nice personal note.

<Dr. Retiring> DDS

 

[Muse]

Update: I called the office of the dentist recommended by my former long-term (~40 year) dentist, who retired end of 2019. They had my records, given them by my former dentist. They said I had to come in personally to get the records. This was over a year ago, way before I was vaxed. I called them again after being vaxed (probably ~5 months ago) and left a message but they didn't return my call. I called them today, they answered the phone and I went over there and got my records, which are a file folder filled about 3/4" thick, with 8 1/2" x 11" sheets of paper and Xrays, also some letters from specialists who my dentist had referred me to (2-3 oral surgeons). I signed a form, they handed me the file folder and that was it. I just had a ~15 minute look through the folder. There's nothing digital and I kind of doubt that they did things digitally except for things like setting up appointments and payments/billing.

I have the name/number of a dentist highly recommended in town and figure to call them, hoping they will take me on as a new patient. I figure it's a better bet than just going to the guy that my former dentist sold his patients to (seems to be the consensus here on how that worked).

 

[Torn Mind]

For the majority of dentists, the question is often just how much shade there is in his/her soul. Good, ethical dentists are a rare, rare breed.

Me, I have such an ax to grind with that occupation I am damn willing to eat lettuce and plain unseasoned meat for the rest of my life every day, every meal if it means that don’t make a cent from me. I might need to swallow a glucose pill here and there to avoid ketosis.

It’s actually similar to my attitudes towards shit mechanics and DIY’ing car repairs. The two occupations reward and incentivized the angelically duplicitous.

 

[Muse]

For the majority of dentists, the question is often just how much shade there is in his/her soul. Good, ethical dentists are a rare, rare breed.

Me, I have such an ax to grind with that occupation I am damn willing to eat lettuce and plain unseasoned meat for the rest of my life every day, every meal if it means that don’t make a cent from me. I might need to swallow a glucose pill here and there to avoid ketosis.

It’s actually similar to my attitudes towards shit mechanics and DIY’ing car repairs. The two occupations reward and incentivized the angelically duplicitous.

Well, my dentist of ~40 years who retired Dec. 2019 was, I thought, rather up front with me. He'd explain frankly what the situation was, looking me straight in the eye and I never trusted a dentist like him before. I was never afraid to go see him and that's for 4 decades. He also had a real good sense of humor and not from some dark region of his soul. He had good smooth rapport with his staff. The guy I'm scheduled to see in a month has a very enthusiastic following, judging from the Nextdoor thread where I discovered him. They say he's just the best.

I do have a certain concern. My old dentist didn't keep digital records except for billing and appointments AFAIK. My file (now in my possession) is 3/4" think and filled with paper and negatives. My new dentist is 100% digital. I'll bring my file but have the feeling they won't want to keep it. They want to take a full set of xrays at my initial appointment. I don't know if this is a good situation. The guy my old dentist gave my records had my file with other analog files, so he was willing and able to deal with those kinds of records. Maybe I should try that guy and see, or maybe it's OK to go with the guy who's super well loved but is totally digital. I just don't know!

 

[Torn Mind]

Well, my dentist of ~40 years who retired Dec. 2019 was, I thought, rather up front with me. He'd explain frankly what the situation was, looking me straight in the eye and I never trusted a dentist like him before. I was never afraid to go see him and that's for 4 decades. He also had a real good sense of humor and not from some dark region of his soul. He had good smooth rapport with his staff. The guy I'm scheduled to see in a month has a very enthusiastic following, judging from the Nextdoor thread where I discovered him. They say he's just the best.

I do have a certain concern. My old dentist didn't keep digital records except for billing and appointments AFAIK. My file (now in my possession) is 3/4" think and filled with paper and negatives. My new dentist is 100% digital. I'll bring my file but have the feeling they won't want to keep it. They want to take a full set of xrays at my initial appointment. I don't know if this is a good situation. The guy my old dentist gave my records had my file with other analog files, so he was willing and able to deal with those kinds of records. Maybe I should try that guy and see, or maybe it's OK to go with the guy who's super well loved but is totally digital. I just don't know!

I did say rare, not impossible. But it is hard to tell until after an appointment, gets diagnsoed, and gets billed, either through their insurance or upfront.

Reviews are more indicative of people being persuaded and not offended.

There was a local dentist in my area that was well reviewed with 400+ reviews, mostly positive but his prroposed solution to my problem was very much predatory. I go in and schedule an emergency appointment because swelling returned to my rightmost upper molar next to the wisdom teeth. I had to pay upfront for XRays because he wasn’t my primary. He pointed out there was an abscess, which I already knew since my normal dentist had told me I had perio damage. He prescribed amoxicillin. But then he refers me to a specialist for a root canal when he he didn’t even say I had a cavity or internal decay from the XRay he took. Then after the root canal go back him to get a crown to cover the root canal. Such an absence of information distinguishing a gum abscess from a cavity-triggered abscess likely could have persuaded the usual clientele, which are the wealthy yet not questioning types to simply just spend the money on the root canal and come back to him. His bio on his website seems to indicate he’s really good at crowns. So had I been a “usual customer” with their mindset and not my geeky, analyzing self, it would have been another 5-star review glowing about how his treatment was magically not that painful and the pain was gone for good. I actuality, the antibiotic amoxicillin, was the real solution and the root canal utterly useless. Obviously, I would not return even if I won the lottery.

I told the dental office I had no insurance because they looked like a operation that would not take a Medicaid MCO anyway and I burned up the X-ray on a dentist my mom dragged me to years ago catering to the substantial upper middle class and high income folks in the local area.

My dentist that my mom took me to is better and not that predatory, although the cleaning I had this Tuesday wound up with me getting a surprise cavity filling on the bottom right molar next to the wisdom teeth despite modifying and adding to my care routine. The problem is that I am socially tied up and can’t just straight up ask for records and bail out to the next dentist. Maybe I did get a cavity because I did not suppress my sweet and carb tooth all the time since I was exhausted from both lack of carbs and long COVID, but I was restrictive and immediately waterpiking after any and all sweet or acidic foods. I don’t know if she used anesthesia or not for my filling but I felt nothing during it or afterwards, so she might not have drilled deep. The cavity filling got my competitive juices flowing because I did better but not good enough to stave off further decay. So now I am considering take a glucose tablet by swallowing them whole with a cup of water on the days I need a boost while being even more stringent in restricting diet to tough, fibrous vegetables and meat-derived foods.