Democrats screwed in 2012

[theeedude]

Nice try, but it actually goes:

Progressives -------Obama---Blue dog Dems---Country---Moderate Republicans-------Neocons---Tea Party

WTF is a "Moderate Republican?"

 

[khon]

WTF is a "Moderate Republican?"

Susan Collins, Olympia Snow, John McCain, Lindsey Graham etc.

Although the teaparty does seem to be pulling McCain and Graham to the right lately.

 

[Carmen813]

Is that why you guys started calling yourselves progressives?

Guess that would make sense if I was a progressive.

 

[theeedude]

Susan Collins, Olympia Snow, John McCain, Lindsey Graham etc.

Although the teaparty does seem to be pulling McCain and Graham to the right lately.

So basically they are endangered species, and they are to the left of Blue Dog Democrats.

 

[PingSpike]

exactly, now you're getting it. This is the same thing the republicans said about bush in 2004. Nice job, you're doing great. Watch out though, if more "disappointment" starts gathering storm, just sit tight. Maybe turn off the tv, put the newspapers down. Stay out of p&n, post more in ot, or even l&r, that's a great little forum. Hell, close your eyes and stick your fingers in your ears if you have to. Whatever it takes, dude.

lol

 

[khon]

So basically they are endangered species, and they are to the left of Blue Dog Democrats.

They do seem to be an endangered species lately, but I don't see where you get that they are to the left of Blue Dog Democrats ?

 

[PingSpike]

Damn, even some Huffington Post posters are fed up with Obama

"With this President, I do believe my disillusionment is now complete. I seriously question, more than I ever have before, what the point is of voting for anything more broadly than local. grassroots issues. The fix is in, and whether we want to believe it or not, nobody is going to be successful bucking this system. There is too much money, too many interests, too much greed. If you're not already bought and paid for, you don't get to actually DO anything in politics other than what the money wants you to do. Anything outside that scope is verboten. How depressing. "

Sounds like a fat kid that just woke up early from a sex dream with JAlba and Meagan Fox. Back here in reality, there's still no chance of getting laid.

 

[theeedude]

They do seem to be an endangered species lately, but I don't see where you get that they are to the left of Blue Dog Democrats ?

Well, look at Susan Collins and Southern Democrats and compare them on the issues. Also, Mitt Romney passed Massachussets health care reforms that are pretty far to the left of what a Blue Dog would vote for.

 

[MotF Bane]

Sounds like a fat kid that just woke up early from a sex dream with JAlba and Meagan Fox. Back here in reality, there's still no chance of getting laid.

Hey, I'd be pretty pissed about that too.

 

[BoberFett]

Obama inherited an absolutely craptacular situation and thus hasn't had the luxury of implementing an agenda of his own choosing. He did manage to get HC Reform passed, which is a big accomplishment in itself, but if the Economy wasn't so fucked he could have done more by now.

Epic fail

 

[BoberFett]

We've been getting 'at least he doesn't do some of the horrible things a Republican would have'.

Yeah, you just most of the horrible things Republicans do.

Face it, sockpuppet. Your team is as bad as the other one.

 

[classy]

I dont think so. Honestly, James Carville never uttered more intelligent words than when he said "Its the economy stupid". By 2012 the economy could look completely different than it does today. And when it gets better so does Obama's numbers.

Thats all its going to come down to. People's pockets. If things are improved like 7-8% unemployment, the bailout funds either have been or are being paid back, no more bailout funds, and adequate performance with this oil mess, if those things either materialize or hold true he will easily win another term.

 

[First]

Obama's record through 18 months is considerably better than at any point in the first 4 years of the Bush admin, that's just a matter of record. Hard to seriously compare the disasters of Iraq and 9/11 to healthcare and financial legislation with an oil spill throw in.

 

[classy]

My thoughts are on these handicap numbers. The Dow has to be 11,000 holding solid and unemployment has to be 8.5 or less not an adjusted 8.5, not with gov job prop up either. If those two numbers are worse, he may still hold on, but the odds will be against him.

 

[woolfe9999]

It amuses me how people on the right get so giddy when people from the far left are unhappy with Obama. Apparently it doesn't matter that certain people on the left are critical of Obama for reasons entirely opposite of why people on the right are critical of him, and that if Obama actually did what his left wing critics wanted him to do, those on the right would go into an even bigger anti-Obama tizzy (if that's even possible). Any form of criticism of Obama, even if it's that he not socialist enough, will do.

- wolf

 

[irishScott]

It amuses me how people on the right get so giddy when people from the far left are unhappy with Obama. Apparently it doesn't matter that certain people on the left are critical of Obama for reasons entirely opposite of why people on the right are critical of him, and that if Obama actually did what his left wing critics wanted him to do, those on the right would go into an even bigger anti-Obama tizzy (if that's even possible). Any form of criticism of Obama, even if it's that he not socialist enough, will do.

- wolf

We tend to get a little giddy (although I consider myself a moderate independent) because of the degree of blind naive loyalty Obama once commanded. It's nice to see disillusioned ex-Obamatons admitting they were wrong.

 

[werepossum]

We tend to get a little giddy (although I consider myself a moderate independent) because of the degree of blind naive loyalty Obama once commanded. It's nice to see disillusioned ex-Obamatons admitting they were wrong.

Agreed, although it would be nicer if the Republicans showed any signs of having learned anything more than catching the scent of Democrat blood in the water. The lesser evil still bats for the other side.

 

[Craig234]

We tend to get a little giddy (although I consider myself a moderate independent) because of the degree of blind naive loyalty Obama once commanded. It's nice to see disillusioned ex-Obamatons admitting they were wrong.

My positiion on Obama hasn't changed much at all, but I'm one of the people who strongly supported Obama over McCain and agree with the criticism like Jon Stewart's.

Criticizing Obama isn't 'admitting you were wrong' for preferring someone far better than the alternative, despite the flaws.

 

[irishScott]

My positiion on Obama hasn't changed much at all, but I'm one of the people who strongly supported Obama over McCain and agree with the criticism like Jon Stewart's.

Criticizing Obama isn't 'admitting you were wrong' for preferring someone far better than the alternative, despite the flaws.

It's admitting they were wrong about Obama being the next Alexander the Great. Hell of a step back from the "OBAMA!!! OBAMA!!! OBAMA!!!" mob of about 200 people that literally ran around campus for most of an hour when he got elected.

 

[Drift3r]

They are upset he isn't hardcore left wing enough for their views. That he hasn't replaced the US Eagle with the Hammer and Sickle or handed out more "free" money. Color me surprised.

Then again that goes to show the wisdom of selecting a senator with 3 years experience. Oh wait he is a eloquent speaker when he has a teleprompter.

 

[manimal]

We tend to get a little giddy (although I consider myself a moderate independent) because of the degree of blind naive loyalty Obama once commanded. It's nice to see disillusioned ex-Obamatons admitting they were wrong.

Thats pretty funny. When did disagreeing with someone meant you hated them? Whatever happened to agreeing to disagree. Obama is getting pressure from the left. He gets pressure from the right, and pressure from everything under the sun. Anyone who fails to challenge their own beliefs let alone the beliefs of others is doomed to be the fool..

You know I disagreed with my wife once, were still married.....


Rigid absolutism has infected the center right. Its now just a black sea where people like Charlie Christ and John Mcain drown a slow and painful death.

Best thing that could ever happen to Obama is to have Palin on the ticket!!

 

[manimal]

They are upset he isn't hardcore left wing enough for there views. That he hasn't replaced the US Eagle with the Hammer and Sickle or handed out more "free" money. Color me surprised.

Then again that goes to show the wisdom of selecting a senator with 3 years experience. Oh wait he is a eloquent speaker when he has a teleprompter.

So wanting to bring back the rule of law and saving Habeus Corpus is hammer and sickle worthy?

So wanting to close down Guantanamo bay and removing the number 1 terrorist recruitment tool there is sickle worthy?

So wanting to rein back the warhawks and stop preemtive attacks on other countries is sickle worthy?

So wanting to get the sons and daughters of Amrican families out of harms way is sickle worthy?

So wanting to end DADT so everyone who wants to serve can serve their country is sickle worthy?



If you tea baggers disagree with Keynesian Economics then your objections are valid. Most credible economists however do believe if something wasnt done after the meltdown we would have entered the next great depression.

Funny how you guys cry about tax breaks now. You do realize half the stimulus was tax breaks right?

If you subtract the costs of the war, the cost of the stimulus, and the lost revenue the economic downturn has reaped the current state of the national debt is not that far off from when he inherited it.

 

[PJABBER]

It is often takes a bit of self-deprecation to admit that one has been led down a path that turns out to be the wrong one.

It takes some humility to recognize the guide that wasn't, was of our own choosing.

It takes some guts to see and then to acknowledge that the wrong choice has consequences not only for ourselves but those around us who will also bear them.

There is a long time to go before 2012. The consequences have not all come about yet.

Yet the die has been cast and the gamble that seemed so certain has been made. It just has not yet hit us how much it will cost.

Obama’s Gulf War III

Victor Davis Hanson
June 16th, 2010 8:28 am

Victor Davis Hanson is the Martin and Illie Anderson Senior Fellow in Residence in Classics and Military History at the Hoover Institution, Stanford University, a professor of Classics Emeritus at California State University, Fresno, and a nationally syndicated columnist for Tribune Media Services. He is also the Wayne & Marcia Buske Distinguished Fellow in History, Hillsdale College, where he teaches each fall semester courses in military history and classical culture. He was awarded the National Humanities Medal in 2007 and the Bradley Prize in 2008.

Manmade Disasters

The president last night addressed the nation on the oil slick, nearly two months into the disaster. He seems stunned that a single man in Washington is being held responsible for either a human error that is polluting the gulf, or an act of god that led to a tragic chain of events, inevitable at some point when drilling from 5,000 feet above the ocean floor.

Do not we see the injustice of it all, of holding a green Mr. Obama culpable for either the blowout or the tardy and insufficient efforts at clean-up? Does Obama appoint another “czar?” Does he do to BP what he did to Las Vegas, the saw-happy surgeons, Rush Limbaugh and Fox News? Is the spill to oil companies what the 2008 panic was to GM? Is there some sort of cash-for-clunkers PR fix? A Bush memo to be found ordering drilling from a zillion feet? Perhaps another “wise Latina,” or an “Oooh. Van Jones, alright! So, Van Jones” to recruit?

What to do? Where to turn? Whom to blame? Who unfairly established this strange post-Katrina precedent that the president of all people — not the mayor, not the governor, not private enterprise — is ultimately responsible?

We can all question that unfair premise, and did so in 2005, but critics like Obama himself made the federal response to Katrina a campaign issue. And so here we are with him hoisted with his own petard.

That old meany goddess Nemesis is at work again, causing havoc nearly in the identical spot as Katrina (but of course)— focusing on the young technocrat who so loudly blamed the “incompetence” of Bush during the New Orleans mess. Now our Oedipus is reduced to raging in his halls against BP, with thousands of hard-working Louisianans and other Gulfers the losers for this divine reminder about the wages of hubris.

Given the dearth of Obama’s executive experience, and given what we know of community organizing, and in light of what we saw in the 2008 campaign, the president is pretty much acting to script. Readers, you know it well by now and saw it again last night.

A) Talk in soaring hope and change platitudes without saying much of anything: no review of the actual mechanisms to close the well; no specific systematic overview of various ways of cleaning up the mess; no references to future contingency plans should present efforts come up short. We are back to the Victory Column or Cairo speech, and have the gasbag Edward Everett Hale at Gettysburg when we needed a concise Lincoln.

B) Blaming “them” — as in, after 18 months, the Bush moles are still burrowed deeply into the regulatory agencies thwarting hope and change. Apparently it took the BP spill to remind Sec. Salazar and Obama just how ubiquitous the Bush incompetents and rascals were in their midst. Somehow Halliburton will find its way into the narrative (if it has not already). We get the script: each time Obama screws up, a new discovery is made that a Bushite was in deep cover and only now is found out.

C) Sue! Well before the oil stops, we are interested instead on how to punish BP. But this is the proverbial cart before the horse. There is plenty of time to force BP to cough up punitive damages; but one does not demonize the company who is, for better or worse, trying to clean up as the oil pours out. (This reminds me of a farmer who stood screaming over his son and his friends in a packing house yard. The boy in reckless fashion has flipped a truck with eight pallets of Santa Rosa plums on it. As thousands of plums were rolling over the asphalt, instead of organizing a pick-up, the irate dad kept screaming reminders to the son exactly how much he had lost and how he was going to have to come up with thousands of dollars in restitution (the son, of course, did not work too hard with his friends in finding salvageable fruit on the tarmac and repacking what he could).

Add in the British pique at having Obama call out “British Petroleum” (officially is it not “Beyond Petroleum”?) in tones that suggest a sort of 1812 raid on the White House (in the context of the gift-giving mess, the bust fiasco, the Brown slap downs, the neutrality on the Falklands, the put down about the “special relationship,” and on and on, all reminding the British that they are getting the Israel treatment).

D) “Never miss a crisis.”Let me get this straight: as oil gushes forth, we are to use this disaster as a teachable moment to go the wind and solar route. OK, but fairly or not, the message to the shrimpers and hotel owners of the Gulf is: “Your misery has some didactic value for the rest of us, since after your Gulf is destroyed, we will shut down your rigs to ensure permanent poverty follows your misery.”

If the president is going to try to manipulate a crisis, at least get the manipulation right: we should fast-track nuclear power to produce clean electricity to fuel a new generation of hybrid engines and electric motors; and we also should fast-track natural gas distribution to capitalize on new natural gas finds to power trucks, tractors, and large engines not suitable for hybridization with present technology; and we should exploit oil as a transition fuel wherever it can be more safely recovered (e.g., ANWR) without going 5,000 feet to get it.

But in general, an oil spill is a bad occasion for windmill wonkery. (Obama is filling in here: Al Gore’s domestic problems and his move to Oprah country have combined to silence him for a bit during the disaster.)

E) Straw men. Even the “some say” and “others say” got in there. Who says what and why? And the vague stuff about “we don’t know how precisely to get there” is like Patton telling the Third Army that they will reach Berlin some day but have no idea where the Rhine is or how precisely they will get across. In an odd, unhappy way, the president physically seemed to shrink behind the Oval Office desk.

It almost looked as if a teenager were in the presidential seat trying to peep above the rim of the desk. Another cardigan sweater Carter moment.

The Political Mess

The BP spill is a nightmare for Obama for a variety of reasons. Let us count them, without delighting in his dilemma, given that we all are in a bad fix, since the spill is ruining an entire regional economy and the wild reaction to it threatens 20% of our oil supply.

Obama campaigned on competence and cool. But his technocrats, whether Van Jones, Dr. Chu, Larry Summers, or Eric Holder, are at best academic misfits and at worse simply unfit for executive responsibilities.

Harvard Law Review may be of value for suing BP later and demonizing it in the press, and community organizing may be valuable in shaking down BP to clean up, but had only the president run an ACE Hardware store, or at least worked the night shift at Starbucks, he could have had some experience in delegating authority and demanding results from employees, while keeping in mind the bigger picture of economic survival. Right now we are being governed by a GS something, who has no idea where money comes from, but lots of ideas how to blow it. This crisis brings that out.

The left is restless. The shelf life of forbearance is ending.

Obama so far has benefited from the liberal desire for power that has trumped even its own green advocacy. (Bush would have been cannibalized for this on second one). But at some point, the pictures from the gulf of dying birds, of oily beaches, of sticky fish will sink polls and so get even to the Malibu crowd. And after they scream at Bush, BP, Palin, hoi polloi for driving Yukons (instead of Lexus and Volvo SUVs), they are only left with Obama to blame.

The spill is a foreign relations metaphor and a dangerous one at that. Right now, Hamas, Iran, North Korea, Russia, Syria, the Taliban, Turkey, Venezuela, and a host of others are testing us, three-quarters of them convinced (after 18 months of good evidence) that Obama either will not or cannot or knows not how to deter them all from making regional “adjustments.”

When they see his polls fall during the Gulf crisis, and his tepid reaction to it, they by extension ponder whether another Gaza flotilla, another sinking South Korean ship, another Taliban offensive, another Syrian-Hezbollah missile sale, another slap at Eastern Europe, or another border incursion into Colombia might win the same sort of speech that we saw last night.

Add in the domestic turmoil over the bloody health care debate, the annual two-trillion-dollar deficits, the cap-and-trade and amnesty fights to come, and our enemies see opportunity as never before. (Note how Hezbollah prompted a July 2006 war with Israel, sensing a weakened George Bush — when his polls hit rock bottom, a midterm corrective election was coming up, and debate over the surge was tearing apart the country.)

Who is advising Obama? Are they afraid to tell the boss that hopey/changey is now stale and past expiration date — or do they sense that if they withdraw it from the shelf there is nothing to restock it with? Surely, there must be some sort of panic going on that they have an empty Armani suit?

A Final Media Note

Much has been made that the MSNBC and left-wing punditry crowd are turning on Obama, especially after last night’s non-speech. Sorry, I don’t quite believe they adjudicate Obama on competency, since the spill speech was no worse than the pathetic “I could no more disown Rev. Wright” riff of yesteryear, one that gave them a collective tingle.

Instead, Obama is now 42% to 48% in most polls, not soaring to 65% or demolishing Hillary. In other words, if right now Obama were still beloved, his former hagiographers would find a way to turn his Gulf performance into another ‘”I wasn’t there all that much at Trinity” excuse. But Obama, whom they all so invested in, is the most polarizing figure since Nixon, and has the unique ability to destroy liberalism for a generation: lose the House and maybe even the Senate; turn the public off on government, divide the country over health care, cap-and-trade, race, and amnesty; and completely discredit a shamelessly partisan media.

No, the sudden damning of Obama’s leadership is a symptom that Obama is turning radioactive, and not even Chris Matthews wants to be the last zealot in Washington crafting yet another narrative of how brilliant and tingly a soon-to-be 30% president “really” is.

In a weird way, the green issue is a gift from the gods for the liberal media: it allows them “on principle” (cf. Maureen Dowd) to distance themselves from Obama (as in “we don’t compromise with the environment” when, in fact, they compromise on everything from Predator assassinations, windmills off Martha’s Vineyard, solar panels in tortoise country, Guantanamo, etc. as long as there is power to be had or amplified).

But again, oil in the Gulf, like blood in the water, suddenly makes it “principled” for an opportunistic shark to take a bite out of a bleeding and floundering Obamafish.

 

[irishScott]

Thats pretty funny. When did disagreeing with someone meant you hated them? Whatever happened to agreeing to disagree. Obama is getting pressure from the left. He gets pressure from the right, and pressure from everything under the sun. Anyone who fails to challenge their own beliefs let alone the beliefs of others is doomed to be the fool..

You know I disagreed with my wife once, were still married.....


Rigid absolutism has infected the center right. Its now just a black sea where people like Charlie Christ and John Mcain drown a slow and painful death.

Best thing that could ever happen to Obama is to have Palin on the ticket!!

What are you on? When did I say I hated anyone? I was severely annoyed by the Obamatons, and it's nice to see some of them admit they were acting like idiots. Back during the election they were acting like self-righteous douchebags. Both sides of the campaign were polarized as hell, but in my experience it was the Obama fans who were most in your face about it.

 

[manimal]

Pjabber-

yay more reporting on polls and false argumentum ad popolum..

The crowd outside my door is angry so they must be right....just because many think it doesnt mean its right or true...

Obamas big mistake so far has been losing the war of perception. As in the health care debate watch for a more animated hands on effort in the coming months.

Even Bill O'reilly on Fox entertainment backed Sarah Palin into a corner when she said Obama didnt want to get the oil capped.....

I have actually read some of Victor Davis Hanson's work on the Greeks. If this was a discussion on Homer then I would give some more though. His book "The Immagration Solution" is interesting and is on my read list.... This on the other hand misses its mark in my opinion..

What I found funny is the comment on Obama being the most polarizing leader since Nixon... I thought that was GW?


FYI read the mission statement from the hoover institute.


Now more than four decades old, Herbert Hoover's 1959 statement to the Board of Trustees of Stanford University on the purpose and scope of the Hoover Institution continues to guide and define its mission in the twenty-first century:

"This Institution supports the Constitution of the United States, its Bill of Rights and its method of representative government. Both our social and economic systems are based on private enterprise from which springs initiative and ingenuity.... Ours is a system where the Federal Government should undertake no governmental, social or economic action, except where local government, or the people, cannot undertake it for themselves.... The overall mission of this Institution is, from its records, to recall the voice of experience against the making of war, and by the study of these records and their publication, to recall man's endeavors to make and preserve peace, and to sustain for America the safeguards of the American way of life. This Institution is not, and must not be, a mere library. But with these purposes as its goal, the Institution itself must constantly and dynamically point the road to peace, to personal freedom, and to the safeguards of the American system."