Democrats race to repeal Obamacare....

[Patranus]

The reason the bill is so large and such a pile of crap is by the time it got approval from both parties in the house and senate it contained so much garbage for the different special interest groups and lobbyists that the bill doesn't even accomplish it's original goals. This is the problem with much of the legisation we see these days. It's full of loopholes, handouts, entitlements, etc for certain groups that the original intent of the legislation is lost.

umm.......

And no, the problem with legislation is that the federal government is legislating things that it was never meant to legislate.

 

[shortylickens]

common give give him a break, he is trying to add 11mil new citizens who simply don't make enough money to buy food, who will pay for their medicines? who will pay for the care of the little humanlets they pop out? we need more money from whoever make anything over 100k.

We'll just keep taking out loans, no problem.

 

[sportage]

"Tweak". The word should be TWEAK.

 

[FuzzyBee]

This is the problem with much of the legisation we see these days. It's full of loopholes, handouts, entitlements, etc for certain groups that the original intent of the legislation is lost.

Absolutely correct, Both sides are guilty of it, too.

 

[Hyraxxx]

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0710/40459.html

I guess they had to pass it to find out what was in it.
Hint:READ THE FUCKING BILL

“But we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it, away from the fog of the controversy."

- (D) Nancy Pelosi

 

[Robor]

I'm shocked LordPatranus would do something like distort the news.

I'm thinking paid shill?

 

[hal2kilo]

LAWL... repealing a tiny part of the bill is now repealing Obamacare?

The thing was so butchered by the time is got passed, of course there will probably be several parts of the bill that will be reworked at least if the Dems stay in power. Otherwise when the Repugs get back in power, we'll go back to letting insurance company bottom line profits determine who lives or dies in their death panels.

 

[bl4ckfl4g]

LAWL... repealing a tiny part of the bill is now repealing Obamacare?

Par for the course for Patrollus.

 

[heyheybooboo]

Actually what you point out is not an exaggeration at all. You just touched the tip of the iceberg.

really big Fail

IRS Requests Public Input on Expanded Information Reporting Requirement



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[GarfieldtheCat]

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0710/40459.html

I guess they had to pass it to find out what was in it.
Hint:READ THE FUCKING BILL

So changing a SMALL, TECHNICAL problem with that law is somehow the same thing as repealing the whole thing? So nothing changes with the coverage, the intent of the bill at all. LOL, you are continuing to be an idiot.

How many times does congress pass something, and then find out the law needs to be tweaked because of something small? Lot of times.

But I guess since it's Obama's bill, it just drives you and the other neocons crazy. Funny how you didn't get upset when this happened multiple times over that last 10 years.

 

[theeedude]

Misleading title.

 

[hal2kilo]

Actually what you point out is not an exaggeration at all. You just touched the tip of the iceberg.

Must be why corporate's gone all ape shit about my whopping $190 (avg.) monthly petty cash account I have for office supplies and POV mileage re-imbursement. They literally only want me to cash my re-imbursement check and keep it in a strong box instead of me just depositing it in a checking account and writing checks. I'm literally using money orders to pay the F'n phone bill. Of course that gets itemized and split between charge numbers.

No they are not hiding anything. I have to build a little scrap book with receipts attached with sums noted with splits between charge numbers that get attached to my monthly report. I think they are finally thinking about allowing the receipts to be scanned.

Ridiculous amount of man hours.

 

[Zebo]

I don't blame the lawmakers for not reading a 2500 page bill. I blame the length of it. No damn need for that at all. I realize the constitution is vague at times but it sure as hell isn't 2500 pages and set the foundation for an entire country. Did this bill really have to be 2500?

Multiple Class A Failonies here, primarily the fact lawmakers didn't know what they were voting on and that it was that long to begin with (you can think the lobbyists).

Length is needed to specify how people will be treated unequally. No use in reading them, they admit it, today's bills are grants of discretion, all they have to know is whom they empower which that low down is given to them by staffers and inter-party talks.

 

[Greenman]

LAWL... repealing a tiny part of the bill is now repealing Obamacare?

It may be a tiny part of the bill, but it's implications are vast. We're talking about millions of 1099's. I'll be filling out a hundred or more myself.

 

[marvdmartian]

So a bajillion more forms will have to be filled out, filed, and reviewed by the IRS, right?

In effect, this will create thousands, perhaps millions of jobs!

So the dummies in Washington have finally found a way to create jobs, and everyone is bitching about it?!?!? :hmm:

 

[JockoJohnson]

As others have already stated, misleading title---need to fix that.

I don't care who repeals that part of the bill(D or R), either way, it would be a good thing.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Repeal of Obamacare not found.

 

[Acanthus]

The bill is designed to be altered, the lions share of it is framework for the agencies that will be managing it to make the rules and enforce them.

If it wasn't long, people would bitch about how inexact they were to let big corporations walk all over it.

 

[Craig234]

“But we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it, away from the fog of the controversy."

- (D) Nancy Pelosi

That seems like a poorly worded statement, so I looked up the context of the quote.

Looking for it, I found that the search returned almost only soldiers in the right-wing noise machine repeating the quote, by itself out of context with their 'commentary'.

One link had the text of the speech. Reading that, it still seems poorly worded, but not what the right-wing noise machine was implying.

Is the right-wing really saying that Pelosi broke the laws on the content of the bill being available to the public, as they imply?

Are they saying as they imply that she was trying to hide the content of the bill - while giving a speech on the content of the bill? Funny for her to admit her scheme, isn't it?

Because that's not what she was saying, not that you would know that from any of the right-wing noise machine with their 'gotcha' quote.

A little common sense shows that's not what she was saying, but that's asking too much from these audiences.

Heritage, Redstate, Fox, and so on, all did their part for right-wing propaganda.

So, the right-wing audiences largely fell for this.

Here's the quote with a little more context:

“We have to do this in partnership, and I wanted to bring up to date on where we see it from here. The final health care legislation that will soon be passed by Congress will deliver successful reform at the local level. It will offer paid for investments that will improve health care services and coverage for millions more Americans. It will make significant investments in innovation, prevention, wellness and offer robust support for public health infrastructure. It will dramatically expand investments into community health centers. That means a dramatic expansion in the number of patients community health centers can see and ultimately healthier communities. Our bill will significantly reduce uncompensated care for hospitals.

“You’ve heard about the controversies within the bill, the process about the bill, one or the other. But I don’t know if you have heard that it is legislation for the future, not just about health care for America, but about a healthier America, where preventive care is not something that you have to pay a deductible for or out of pocket. Prevention, prevention, prevention—it’s about diet, not diabetes. It’s going to be very, very exciting.

“But we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it, away from the fog of the controversy. Furthermore, we believe that health care reform, again I said at the beginning of my remarks, that we sent the three pillars that the President’s economic stabilization and job creation initiatives were education and innovation—innovation begins in the classroom—clean energy and climate, addressing the climate issues in an innovative way to keep us number one and competitive in the world with the new technology, and the third, first among equals I may say, is health care, health insurance reform. Health insurance reform is about jobs. This legislation alone will create 4 million jobs, about 400,000 jobs very soon.

Her point, in my opinion, is that the same right-wing noise machine had created so much 'controversy' that was false about the bill, that once it was passed, people would find that the lies were lies and the terrible things they said wouldn't happen, but rather the good things actually in the bill would happen.

That's a reasonable point, confusingly worded.

Consider an analogy - when Bill Clinton pushed a tax increase on the top 2%, every right-wing commentator made big predictions about the bad things it would do - destroy the economy, plummet productivity, explode the deficit, whatever bad things they could make up - and he could have said the same thing, that there's a lot of made-up 'controversy' and passing the tax cut would show the good things it would do - which is just what happened (by the way, I haven't seen one of hundreds admit they were wrong).

'The proof is in the pudding' is what she seems she was saying, disagreeing with the bill doing what the right-wing noise machine said.

But the right continues on parroting the idiotic out of context version - Pelosi has evil scheme toe destroy the country, hidden in bill, and says she does in speech!

Makes her a good Bond villain, announcing her evil plan. Anyone who parrots this right-wing nonsense should be embarrassed.

Or, people could get that the right has a plan that says 'screw the American people, the only way to get power back for our agenda for the rich is to not let the Democrats get anything done', so that they were almost all going to vote against any health care plan the Democrats could get credit with voters for pretty much no matter what, who cares about the rising costs, the uninsured, and so on, while nit picking the bills to justify this, so that unlike Pelosi, they didn't announce their evil plan.

But wait, they did - there are a number of quotes from Republicans admitting pretty much this approach, in situations they were speaking more generally. Not out of context.

So, righties can pick - Pelosi did some terrible coverup and announced her evil plan in a speech, or they are being propagandized to support the right's agenda for the rich.

Are they that big of suckers? There are people paid to lie to them about the Dems. Why are they paid, by whom? What is that agenda of those funders?

No, just as the same type of people have long fallen for the most basic of televangelist scammers, just as they fell for Ronald Reagan telling them that JFK's Medicare proposals weren't good for the American people's healthcare needs but rather were 'socialism' they should be against, while he was paid by the industry who would profit, and later his 'trickle down economics' and other plans that shifted the nation's economy into a historic change where the rich took a far larger share of the economic growth (nearly all after inflation)...

It's a failure of our democracy, for the monied interests to be able to put out weak propaganda and get the righties to fall for it as fooled citizens.

To let the monied interests buy enough voters to block the programs on behalf of those voters. But that's the behavior on issue after issue of righties.

Give them just enough of a false argument they can repeat it ad nauseum as talking points. See! Pelosi admits there's a hidden agenda to destroy the nation!!

Who is the real enemy of the country? The people who are such weak citizens and those who lie to them, IMO.

 

[OutHouse]

So a bajillion more forms will have to be filled out, filed, and reviewed by the IRS, right?

In effect, this will create thousands, perhaps millions of jobs!

So the dummies in Washington have finally found a way to create jobs, and everyone is bitching about it?!?!? :hmm:

government shouldn't be in the job creating business to begin with!

 

[Ns1]

really big Fail

IRS Requests Public Input on Expanded Information Reporting Requirement



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a. that was added after the initial bill
b. still a ton of 1099's that are currently paid via check

 

[dmcowen674]

Quote:
Originally Posted by umbrella39
I'm shocked LordPatranus would do something like distort the news.

I'm thinking paid shill?

Where do I sign up, could use the $$$$$$$$$$

 

[Fern]

Actually what you point out is not an exaggeration at all. You just touched the tip of the iceberg.

really big Fail

IRS Requests Public Input on Expanded Information Reporting Requirement

--

It's not fail at all.

This is a serious problem. I've been meaning to start a thread about. This one will do.

A month or so ago I attended a large convention for tax professionals held by the IRS.

The new 1099 reporting requirement imposed by the HC bill was a topic of discussion. I spoke directly with the Assistant Commisioner in charge of implenting this.

There are over 25 million businesses in the USA.

The proposal to exempt credit/debit card purchases is merely that: A proposal.

Whether or not the credit/debit card exemption actually happens, lots of businesses pay by check etc.

Under the current rules, anybody needing to file a 1099 must contact the company (e.g., staples etc) and request the the TIN (taxpayer ID number). The company is required by law to mail them a hard copy with that info. I.e., they can't just tell you their number over the phone or post it on their website.

Millions of businesses will be requesting TIN's.

Some larger companies will be receiving millions of request for their TIN. Imagine office supply companies (Staples, Viking etc). Imagine utility companies, phone companies, copier leasing companies. They will have to set up '1099 centers' to deal with the huge volume of requests for their TIN (and other info) for completing 1099s.

The IRS will have to process many millions of 1099s; they are not now equiped to do so.

Neither are they equiped to follow up on that data.

I believe the 1099 rule was implemented so that additional tax revenue could be estimated and factored in to make the HC bill look less expensive. But I think it's so much data the IRS will get no practical benefit from it.

The actual monetary costs to businesses etc will be huge, probably billions of $'s and of no real value to anyone (other than the US postal system because the hard copy must be mailed); nothing of value results. I.e., a giant freakin waste.

Fern

 

[GuitarDaddy]

Poorly worded provision in the HC bill that will never be implemented, but worth its weight in comedy gold for all the faux outrage created. Kind of reminds me of the Y2K bug Oh noes, our printers will assplode printing gazillions of 1099's

 

[Fern]

Poorly worded provision in the HC bill that will never be implemented, but worth its weight in comedy gold for all the faux outrage created. Kind of reminds me of the Y2K bug Oh noes, our printers will assplode printing gazillions of 1099's

It's not "faux outrage', IMO you don't grasp the enormity of the problem.

Even the IRS recognizes it.

Nor is it merely "poorly worded". It was done purposefully to create an estimated amount of additional revenue to offset the expected cost of Obama care.

Fern