PS It is the very secrecy and refusal of the Republicans to investigate matters -- stalling for over eighteen months now -- relating to the falsehoods and prevarications of the Bush administration regarding their unprovoked invasion of Iraq that led the Democratic leadership to bury their proverbial foot in the Republicans supplicant a$$ today.
OrByte
Diamond Member
- Jul 21, 2000
- 9,303
- 144
- 106
Demo's grew a pair. Repubs are fighting back with rhetoric. Talking heads are here in full effect.
its a late night in Washington. Indeed this is the best reality TV out there today!
can I make a point about weapons and programs? programs are the processes that lead to weapons. Did Clinton specifically state weapons? as in- Sadaam has weapons and he is going to drop them on us (ala Bush) or did he mention weapon programs ala- Sadaam refuses to cooperate with UN inspectors and now we must bomb him because he has WMD programs?
is there a difference? hmmmmmm....
its a late night in Washington. Indeed this is the best reality TV out there today!
can I make a point about weapons and programs? programs are the processes that lead to weapons. Did Clinton specifically state weapons? as in- Sadaam has weapons and he is going to drop them on us (ala Bush) or did he mention weapon programs ala- Sadaam refuses to cooperate with UN inspectors and now we must bomb him because he has WMD programs?
is there a difference? hmmmmmm....
Additionally, the fact that the right wing apologists here are using years old Clinton era intelligence as an excuse for Bush's lies only points out the fact that the terminally incompetent Bush administration justified unprovoked aggression based on rehashed intelligence -- rehashed at their request by analysts who were pressured by Cheney and his minions to come up with the results that Cheney and PNAC demanded.
sandorski
No Lifer
- Oct 10, 1999
- 70,783
- 6,340
- 126
Dems do nohing: Neo-Cons--"OMG Dems failed to stop this crap my party voted for! Damn liberals"
Dems do something: Neo-Cons--"OMFG the Dems are showboating, obstructing government, and teh secracy!!! OMG, teh secracy!!!"
re Clintons bombing: As anyone will recall, when Clinton carried out that campaign it was after a long stint where UN Inspectors had been Inspecting various sites throughout Iraq. They had a pretty good idea where stockpiles were, where facilities existed, amongst other Intel that was very fresh and reliable. Clinton bombed the ****** out of these known sites rendering the Intel null and void. Certainly some of those sies may have survived or perhaps remnants of them may have survived, but there was absolutely no way someone could consider that Intel as reliable anymore. It would seem that Clinton's campaign was far more effective at disarming Iraq than Bush's, as anyone can also recall that Bush has found ******.
Dems do something: Neo-Cons--"OMFG the Dems are showboating, obstructing government, and teh secracy!!! OMG, teh secracy!!!"
re Clintons bombing: As anyone will recall, when Clinton carried out that campaign it was after a long stint where UN Inspectors had been Inspecting various sites throughout Iraq. They had a pretty good idea where stockpiles were, where facilities existed, amongst other Intel that was very fresh and reliable. Clinton bombed the ****** out of these known sites rendering the Intel null and void. Certainly some of those sies may have survived or perhaps remnants of them may have survived, but there was absolutely no way someone could consider that Intel as reliable anymore. It would seem that Clinton's campaign was far more effective at disarming Iraq than Bush's, as anyone can also recall that Bush has found ******.
i think we can all agree to stop arguing with Pabster. he is clearly redefining the definition of troll, never admitting to being wrong even when contradicting evidence is shoved in his face. half of this thread was literally ruined by him refusing to admit his mistakes, which is really a waste. i think more threads would actually stay ON TOPIC if we just ignored him.
so now we can have threads that stay on topic by just ignoring the trolls instead of trying to refute their claims and prove them wrong.
Contributing in identifying and ostracizing mindless trolls who either can't recognize or refuse to recognize facts and who continually take threads off on wild tangents because their opinions are formed around baseless garbage.
The battle has finally started...
And who wins will decide the fate of American democracy, the ideals of freedom, justice and equality for all...
Even greater than that we may - our final chance as it may be - decide America's position in global geo-politics. Are we to be a force of justice, of progress... or of a tired old philosophy.
And who wins will decide the fate of American democracy, the ideals of freedom, justice and equality for all...
Even greater than that we may - our final chance as it may be - decide America's position in global geo-politics. Are we to be a force of justice, of progress... or of a tired old philosophy.
Yep, it should get interesting, if we can get past the FUD and diversion, to see just what kind of whitewash the Senatorial Repubs will attempt to use to paint the whole "intelligence" as entirely reasonable by their Admin cohorts. It's bound to be pretty feeble, all things considered, otherwise they'd have been waving it like old glory atop Iwo Jima long ago.
At this point, all but utter partisans recognize that the intelligence was extremely weak, and interpreted though the lens of war justification, rather than in a dispassionate effort to find the truth. Some was even outright fabrication. I also think that reasonable people will recognize that the Admin presented only those parts and interpretations favorable to their ends, and in a way designed to achieve said ends- the invasion of Iraq. The agenda drove the information, rather than vice-versa.
And it's high time that somebody like Reid calls them to account for it. Let's see what sort of mealy-mouthed justifications that Congressional repubs can find for it all... Yeh, let's have it, guys.
At this point, all but utter partisans recognize that the intelligence was extremely weak, and interpreted though the lens of war justification, rather than in a dispassionate effort to find the truth. Some was even outright fabrication. I also think that reasonable people will recognize that the Admin presented only those parts and interpretations favorable to their ends, and in a way designed to achieve said ends- the invasion of Iraq. The agenda drove the information, rather than vice-versa.
And it's high time that somebody like Reid calls them to account for it. Let's see what sort of mealy-mouthed justifications that Congressional repubs can find for it all... Yeh, let's have it, guys.
Republican obstructionism seems to reach into every facet of government at the moment. Let's hope the Democrats can open the box. Darth Cheney and his ilk don't play nice though, it's not going to be an easy job.
LOL
Reid was just begging for attention. "I now call the senate to closed session!" waving like a chimp
The Democrats are the party of obstructionists and this kind of nonsense will only serve to further the notion.
That's right, Pabster- don't deal with the issue at hand, steer the discussion away from that, if possible, and always, always, get in the last word, even if it's just more of the same diversion...
Somehow, you've tried to spin Reid's demand for action as obstructionism, when it's nothing of the kind.
Wash, rinse, repeat, ad nauseum.
Repubs promised that action long ago, and are now trying to conveniently walk away from it, pretend that the whole issue of prewar intelligence just doesn't exist, kill it with neglect.
Not going to happen, so buck up, buckaroos, do what you've promised...
Somehow, you've tried to spin Reid's demand for action as obstructionism, when it's nothing of the kind.
Wash, rinse, repeat, ad nauseum.
Repubs promised that action long ago, and are now trying to conveniently walk away from it, pretend that the whole issue of prewar intelligence just doesn't exist, kill it with neglect.
Not going to happen, so buck up, buckaroos, do what you've promised...
Actually he seems to be taking care of all of you. You may want to ignore the history of what's happened with regards to Saddam and only look at 2000 and forward(minus the Dem quotes through 2003) but to suggest looking at all the intelligence and history means someone is a troll, then so be it.
But yes, I suggest you guys ignore him, just like you ignore the truth of the Saddam situation. It makes you look uninformed or like an ignorant partisan troll when you come in here making your false claims.
Wrong, it seems that the dems have been blocking action on phase 2 because they don't like some wording or some BS like that. So don't you sit here and try to claim they are trying to walk away from it.
I for one will welcome a FULL report on the intelligence on Saddam's weapons and compliance with our ceasefire terms. I'm sure the left wouldn't like it so much if we had a report on the full scope though.
"Wrong, it seems that the dems have been blocking action on phase 2 because they don't like some wording or some BS like that. So don't you sit here and try to claim they are trying to walk away from it."
If you're prepared to make that accusation, then you're prepared to back it up, right?
Probably not...
"I for one will welcome a FULL report on the intelligence on Saddam's weapons and compliance with our ceasefire terms. I'm sure the left wouldn't like it so much if we had a report on the full scope though."
It's not about Saddam's weapons, at all, since he obviously didn't have any... or about compliance, seeing as how Blix stated Iraq was in compliance shortly before the invasion.... it's about how false conclusions were reached and why.
Nice try, though, even if it's just more of what Pabster has been pushing throughout the thread....
If you're prepared to make that accusation, then you're prepared to back it up, right?
Probably not...
"I for one will welcome a FULL report on the intelligence on Saddam's weapons and compliance with our ceasefire terms. I'm sure the left wouldn't like it so much if we had a report on the full scope though."
It's not about Saddam's weapons, at all, since he obviously didn't have any... or about compliance, seeing as how Blix stated Iraq was in compliance shortly before the invasion.... it's about how false conclusions were reached and why.
Nice try, though, even if it's just more of what Pabster has been pushing throughout the thread....
I will try to find where I read that last night. I know I read about it.
As for a FULL report, yes, it all must be investigated and reported on to provide the relevant background and intelligence information. Does it look like Governments and intel agencies assumed? Sure it does, but you can't report on "false conclusions" unless you have all the relevant info to draw from.
The committee worked on the second phase of the review, Roberts said, but it has not finished. He blamed Democrats for the delays and said his staff had informed Democratic counterparts on Monday that the committee hoped to complete the second phase next week.
This isn't exactly what I remember but it is basically nutshell's what I read. The 2nd phase was ready to go but the dems were holding it up. This snippet suggests that they were informed of that fact yet still pulled this little stunt of closing the Senate doors.
Sounds to me like it was just a political stunt to get it into the news since the SCOTUS nomination was not helping the dems so they figured they could change the subject.
why would the Democrats want to block and delay phase 2 of this investigation? does that make any sense to you shadowofgrey? didn't think so......
as for pabster, he has been completely proved wrong in several threads and refuses to admit so. hell, even the ANANDTECH MODERATOR chimed in to tell him he was wrong once.
back to the topic at hand, i think the Republicans are just mad that the Dems are finally growing a pair and demanding an investigation into what we all know was faulty and fudged intelligence. the battle has begun, i predict the next few months are not going to be pretty in Washington.
as for pabster, he has been completely proved wrong in several threads and refuses to admit so. hell, even the ANANDTECH MODERATOR chimed in to tell him he was wrong once.
back to the topic at hand, i think the Republicans are just mad that the Dems are finally growing a pair and demanding an investigation into what we all know was faulty and fudged intelligence. the battle has begun, i predict the next few months are not going to be pretty in Washington.
Of course Roberts is going to blame the Dems, Shades, it's his only defense, and he hasn't offered any evidence in support of his contention. Straight up blame-shifting. Dems have no way of holding up his report- his party has a majority on the committee, and can issue a report any time they please.
He got caught with his shorts around his ankles, and needs to say something, anything, to placate the faithful... and hold the critics at bay.
He got caught with his shorts around his ankles, and needs to say something, anything, to placate the faithful... and hold the critics at bay.
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