Democrats and Obama working quickly to pass an amnesty bill!

[piasabird]

Secure the border and then we can discuss Amnesty. Not until then.

 

[Tom]

Gotta come here legally though.

Why is it illegal to come here ?

 

[EagleKeeper]

Did anyone actually Read the HUGE section about border security here as well as the section that sets standards for dealing with illegals. I think this is more then just hand out citizenship cards. I dont mind giving amnesty to the guys who are here assuming that the border is reasonable secure.

I. BORDER SECURITY

* Increases personnel in CBP and ICE, and resources for courts; creates trigger provision requiring these to be fulfilled before amnesty can be granted to those illegally in the country (p.1)
* Provides for additional increases in Border Patrol agents stationed on the southern and northern borders and CBP agents stationed at ports of entry (p.1)
* Provides for the installation of high-tech ground sensors along the southern border instead of SBInet (p. 2)
* Upgrades technology for the Border Patrol (BP), including: (1) secure two-way communication capabilities among all BP agents; (2) use of DOD equipment at the border; (3) additional SUVs, helicopters, power boats, river boats, portable computers, night vision equipment, unmanned aircraft systems, etc. (p. 2)
* Creates a “Border Patrol Auxiliary Unit” to assist the BP (p. 2)
* Authorizes DHS to deploy National Guard personnel to borders “when needed” (p. 2)
* Requires creation of additional ports of entry; hiring of thousands of CBP inspectors; provides ports of entry will have enhanced connectivity with government fingerprint databases (p. 3)
* Requires the construction of additional permanent “Border Patrol Forward Operating Bases” (p. 3)
* Provides additional investigators to ICE to investigate smuggling (p. 3)
* Provides additional agents to DEA and ATF for the Southwest Border Initiative (pp. 3-4)
All the above requires expenditures of additional funds, manpower training and equipment procurement - CC
* Creates a bipartisan commission tasked with investigating the state of security on the southern and northern borders and issuing recommendations to ensure complete operational control within 12 months. Congress will be required to vote on whether to enact the commission’s recommendations (p. 4)
One year stall job - this has already been done before - items are either not approved and/or enforced- CC
* Expressly preempts states and municipalities from enacting their own rules and penalties relating to immigration (p. 4)
Does not want the Federal government to be upstaged or shown how to do their job (ie. outrage regardign AZ) - CC
* Directs DHS, DOI, and DOA to work together “to protect our borders while preserving our national parks and wildlife sanctuaries” (p. 4)
What does one have to do with the other? - CC
* Provides grants to municipalities and counties “to mitigate the impact of illegal [aliens] crossing the border and assist them in transporting [them] to law enforcement authorities” (p. 4)
If they are not allowed to collar them, what difference will it make. Instead of mitigating - why not actually stop them? - CC
* Provides that northern border cities will be treated just like southern border cities and will be reimbursed for handling case dispositions of criminal cases that are federally initiated but federally declined or referred (pp. 4-5)
* Establishes a “Border Communities Liaison Office” responsible for reaching out to border town residents and creating a standardized complaint process for addressing complaints regarding the operations of CBP (p. 5)
* Allows communities to create alternatives to detention (p. 5)
Inother words - ignore that they are illegal and ignore the Federal laws. (ie San Franscisco) - CC
* Creates custody standards providing minimum standards of care for all Border Patrol stations, holding cells, checkpoints, and short-term custody officials (p. 5)



II. DETECTION, APPREHENSION, AND REMOVAL OF ILLEGAL ALIENS

* Requires completion of US-VISIT (first passed in 1996) (p. 5)
* Provides DHS will promptly identify, investigate, and initiate removal proceedings against any nonimmigrant who has exceeded his/her authorized stay or otherwise violated the term of his/her visa (p. 6)
If they can find the person? They treat people who entered legally worse than those that enter illegally- CC
* Requires DHS to check all criminals in federal, state, and local prisons and to deport those here illegally (p. 5)
* Requires evaluation and monitoring of the Visa Waiver Program to ensure no participating country has a high percentage of visa overstays (p. 5)
* Provides “there will be zero tolerance for illegal entry and reentry into the U.S.” (p. 5)
If so, then why all the other items. Or do they not know what ZERO tolerance means? - CC
* Prohibits gang members from entering the U.S. and states that such individuals will be deported when apprehended; further prohibits sex offenders from petitioning to bring in foreign nationals (p.6)
So presently, they will not deport gang members? What makes them so special? - CC
* Amends federal law to sanction countries that delay or prevent repatriation of their citizens (p. 6)
* States that the U.S. will have heightened authority to detain dangerous criminals until they can be deported (pp. 6-7)
IHow long does it take to actually deport someone after the judges says so. Stick them on the nearest plane and/or for criminals, use either a small military jet or civilian. There are plenty of Law Enforcement transports available. - CC
* Provides that “states will be quickly reimbursed for the costs of incarcerating and transporting aliens” (p. 7)
* Requires all foreign nationals to provide the U.S. with biometric information (p. 7)
If you can not ask for the information upon legal authoized contact - what good is it.? - CC
* Sets uniform standards for detention of aliens (p. 7)
* Increases penalties and sanctions for “those who violate immigration laws” (p. 7)
* Gives victims of “egregious” labor law violations “incentives” to cooperate with law enforcement to report labor law violations; egregious labor law violators will face civil sanctions and prison sentences (p. 8)
* Requires agencies participating in 287(g) to collect and maintain records and data necessary to ensure “that actions under the agreement comply with federal law” (p. 8)
* Grants refugees and asylees green cards when they receive status (p. 8)

While some of my comments might be answered within the referenced pages, it seems as much of the rehash of promises to enforce the Federal laws that we have heard over the years multiple times.

 

[dmcowen674]

So dem's and their supporters wanting to give blanket amnesty to illegals today is Bush's fault now? That is a nasty red herring you are cooking up.

Call it whatever you want but your hero didn't do squat to stop illegals coming in, he encouraged it.

 

[chucky2]

This is a flat out lie. Arizona has shown how we can go about attacking the problem by actually enforcing the law on the books even at a state level. Amnesty is not an answer period. Granting amnesty would just encourage more illegals to come in hopes that amnesty is granted again by those who throw up their arms and gave up before on actually enforcing our immigration laws.

But they haven't effectively attacked the problem because the illegals are still getting into the country. If you keep them out of the country, then you don't have problems with them in the country - because they're not in it.

Waiting for an illegal to do something the police can then engage them for is not an attack, that's a react.

The longer we react to this problem instead of going on the offensive, the longer it will go on, and, in the long run, we'll lose.

Chuck

 

[chucky2]

NO! One way to get rid of the illegals is to require documentation at the hospital after labor. Pretty soon, all the illegals will either stop having babies or leave.

No, they won't. These people are going through the ordeal of coming here illegally, living here illegally, and working here illegally. You think asking for papers after the females that end up at the hospital to have their baby (clue: many don't go to the hospital to do that) is going to keep the vast bulk that don't have babies at hospitals from coming here?

Get real.

Chuck

 

[chucky2]

We could always bring the draft back . IF you don't have a draft card bye bye.If they want to live here send them off to spill their blood in Iraq and Afgan. By doing so they will go back home in droves

I wouldn't be opposed to people serving x length of time in our military getting US citizenship...however now you've got security concerns about who is serving in our military, to say nothing of the language and education barriers you're introducing.

Much better to solve the problem at the source IMHO...

Chuck

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Call it whatever you want but your hero didn't do squat to stop illegals coming in, he encouraged it.

What did Clinton do to stop it? What has Obama done so far?

As usual, more idiocy from the village idiot.

 

[chucky2]

Agree with #1 and #3.

Not with #2. Do you remember we did exactly that in the mid 80s. Amnesty for ILLEGALS. Ask yourself the question. Is the ILLEGAL immigration problem getting worse or better? Can't expect to get better result if we continue to do the very same thing, again.

Yes, but, nothing was done to secure the borders.m So the problem just kept right on happening.

ILLEGAL immigrant is against existing US laws. It is not new. Illegals = deportation and don't even start with "we can't deport all million and million of them". Start with a few and continue with the rest. When the ILLEGALS see that we mean business, they will leave and stop coming in ILLEGALLY.
What we are doing is enforcing our existing rules and laws, just as ANY countries on earth would do.[/QUOTE]

That's what I'm saying with my #1...that's the 'we mean business'. Still though, we'd never as a country have the stomach to do what it'd truly take to get rid of the ones here illegally. So we mine as well legalize them.

Chuck

 

[chucky2]

Why is it illegal to come here ?

It's not, as long as you do it legally (as in every other country).

Chuck

 

[palehorse]

I wouldn't be opposed to people serving x length of time in our military getting US citizenship...however now you've got security concerns about who is serving in our military, to say nothing of the language and education barriers you're introducing.

Much better to solve the problem at the source IMHO...

Chuck

We already have many foreign citizens serving in our military. The difference is that they first arrived in the U.S. legally, thus making them eligible to serve while in Resident Alien status.

I've had the pleasure of witnessing several friends of mine swear in as U.S. citizens while we were over in Iraq and Afghanistan. It's pretty cool to see them finish the legal immigration process after doing more to earn it than most native-born civilian citizens.

 

[chucky2]

We already have many foreign citizens serving in our military. The difference is that they first arrived in the U.S. legally, thus making them eligible to serve while in Resident Alien status.

I've had the pleasure of witnessing several friends of mine swear in as U.S. citizens while we were over in Iraq and Afghanistan. It's pretty cool to see them finish the legal immigration process after doing more to earn it than most native-born civilian citizens.

Yep, I have no problem with that at all...the key is they came legally, not as felons.

Chuck

 

[werepossum]

Hey I am mostly on your side here with this. The problem is not with dems or republicans. This problem has been overlooked by both parties and presidents for decades. There is nothing that can be done on a mass scale reasonably priced or effective concerning those already here.
SNIP

I'd say the problem is with Democrats AND Republicans; both parties want to pander to any large group for votes, both parties want cheap labor (Republicans for business workers and Democrats for domestic servants), and both parties will do whatever is perceived to be in their own best interests at the moment.

Did anyone actually Read the HUGE section about border security here as well as the section that sets standards for dealing with illegals. I think this is more then just hand out citizenship cards. I dont mind giving amnesty to the guys who are here assuming that the border is reasonable secure.

Washington hot air (to be applied liberally to the interior of the voter's anus)

No one has read the HUGE section about border security because everyone knows it will never happen. Time after time the same people who refuse to enforce the existing border laws promise miraculous new laws and strict enforcement - but only if they are part of a "comprehensive" immigration package. Here's a clue: Those who wish to secure the border propose legislation to secure the border, while those who wish the border to remain open and porous propose legislation to legalize illegals and liberalize the immigration process with just enough "secure the border" spice sprinkled in to make some people think it's a worthwhile trade-off. After numerous such back-stabbings most people are quite jaded, so really strict "border security" measures must be added to fool anyone. But the beauty of the system is that it doesn't matter what border security is promised because leadership of neither party has any intention of honoring it. Democrats are free to propose and even pass any additional border security measures without any fear that Republicans will win power and actually enforce them.

Make the same analogy about anything and you'll quickly see how empty is this promise:
We are going to crack down on murders, but in order to do that we first have to pardon all the murderers.

We are going to crack down on illegal drugs, but in order to do that we first have to legalize all the illegal drugs already in the country.

We are going to crack down on intellectual property theft, but in order to do that we first have to legalize all illegally copied movies and music.

Starting to see the duplicity here?

 

[nick1985]

Why is it illegal to come here ?

Its not. Just do it the correct way

 

[Obsoleet]

Good.

Means business can't exploit those people anymore. Also means they'll be able to have access to the same services everyone tries to deny them today (healthcare ect).

Once American citizens, all those issues will be solved. As an individual it doesn't harm me any, and I for one welcome new hispanic immigrants, they're really good people.
I prefer them over existing Americans.

 

[Pneumothorax]

The only way I'd compromise on this whole amnesty business is a concurrent REPEAL of Title 1 of the 14th amendment (Forever stopping anchor babies from people who do manage to cross anyway) & Guaranteed financing of stricter border security.

 

[Kappo]

Business with illegals working for them? Shut them down and sell the assets in lieu of fines. Im willing to bet it doesnt take long for them to stop hiring them.

Heathcare? Start fingerprinting them. Are they regulars? Deport them. I dont mind donating services to guests, even for free at times, but only for life threatening issues.

Born here but your parents are illegal? Yeah. Time to start your immigration process or go back to your parent's home, along with your parents.

Government services (welfare, food stamps, etc)? You get none. Oh, you are a poor visitor? Save a bit more before you come next time.

Don't even need to put up a damn wall. Creating a national ID card would solve most of the problems in itself. My only worry is that the feds are even crappier at services than the state, and I dont think I will like 70 hour wait times to get an ID. Hell, you can even print the state you are licensed to drive in on the thing, code it with a fingerprint bar code, and move on.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Business with illegals working for them? Shut them down and sell the assets in lieu of fines. Im willing to bet it doesnt take long for them to stop hiring them.

Agreed.

Heathcare? Start fingerprinting them. Are they regulars? Deport them. I dont mind donating services to guests, even for free at times, but only for life threatening issues.

Send the bill to their home country.

Born here but your parents are illegal? Yeah. Time to start your immigration process or go back to your parent's home, along with your parents.

Yep, something needs to be done about the anchor baby stuff.

Government services (welfare, food stamps, etc)? You get none. Oh, you are a poor visitor? Save a bit more before you come next time.

If you're here illegally and are destitute, tough shit. Go back to your home country.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Why is it illegal to come here ?

Because if anyone who wanted to come to the U.S. and become an American citizen were allowed to do so, then billions of impoverished people from around the world would make their way to the United States. Then our population would explode and our nation would transform into an overpopulated, impoverished third world country; we would be flooded with poverty. Who knows how detrimental it would be to the nation's environment.

(You don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure that out.)

 

[Obsoleet]

Because if anyone who wanted to come to the U.S. and become an American citizen were allowed to do so, then billions of impoverished people from around the world would make their way to the United States. Then our population would explode and our nation would transform into an overpopulated, impoverished third world country; we would be flooded with poverty. Who knows how detrimental it would be to the nation's environment.

(You don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure that out.)

LOL!

It happened before, and looks like it turned out so bad.

Besides, this nation has 0 moral standing to say no to immigrants after Europeans conquered it, especially immigrants which are NAFTA refugees that we created.

Born here but your parents are illegal? Yeah. Time to start your immigration process or go back to your parent's home, along with your parents.

Government services (welfare, food stamps, etc)? You get none. Oh, you are a poor visitor? Save a bit more before you come next time.

This isn't Russia. The US has always been more libertarian than Europe in general, we don't operate like that "papers please" crap. If you want to live somewhere where illegal immigrants are thrown out, try Russia and see how you like it.

Now speak Navajo, the language of this land- or get out.

 

[blackangst1]

Why is it illegal to come here ?

Ever heard the word sovereignty before?

www.dictionary.com

 

[blackangst1]

Now speak Navajo, the language of this land- or get out.

You do understand, dont you, that in the last 10-15 years remains have been found (I believe the first were in Ohio) that pre-dates "native American indians", and whose DNA can be traced back to asia and europe....right?

edit: I found one article http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1630791/posts

 

[Obsoleet]

You do understand, dont you, that in the last 10-15 years remains have been found (I believe the first were in Ohio) that pre-dates "native American indians", and whose DNA can be traced back to asia and europe....right?

edit: I found one article http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1630791/posts

Is that the new rebuttal right wingers are circle jerking to these days?

Yeah, because it makes any difference if someone else had an insignificant, failed settlement or not when Europeans committed genocide on the people who were already well established here. Good strawman argument.

 

[blackangst1]

Is that the new rebuttal right wingers are circle jerking to these days?

Yeah, because it makes any difference if someone else had an insignificant, failed settlement or not when Europeans committed genocide on the people who were already well established here. Good strawman argument.

You need to read up on human migration history, son. You have alot to learn.

 

[Obsoleet]

No, feel free to explain it to everyone and educate us. I'm sure whatever you have to 'explain' to everyone would be well-accepted and make a lot of sense.

I have learned that your use of the English word 'alot' is not correct, so you likely aren't as educated as you purport to be. In a failed attempt to talk down to me nonetheless. More logic, less vague references and idiocy. Just saying.