I'm not okay with it but even if they were more corrupt than they currently are I'd still pull the lever for them every chance I got. There is such a vast ocean of difference in corruption levels between Dems and Reps, and more importantly levels of damage done by each party, that it should be reflexive for every rational human being to vote for every single candidate that has a chance to beat any Republican candidate anywhere anytime.
Of course they are corrupt to some degree, but I understand that there are important differences between types of corruption, and some types of corruption are much more important to avoid than others.
Yes and no. There are likely some areas of the country where it is detrimental to be too progressive. Not because the progressive policies are wrong but because the populations are so damaged that you need to hide the medicine in some fucking cheese.
Of course. My post is aimed at people who think Dems are too corrupt or whatever to vote for.
It's relevant because many "independents" read these posts even if they are too scared to post here, and they should know they are doing more harm than good, instead of loading up on ammo to use against Democrats in other forums of political debate.
Well I say we can walk and chew gum at the same time. We can both beat MAGA and reform the party from within. They are so so corrupt - they are literally anti anything progressive, and it took me longer than some friends and family to catch on, but it is insulting how much they have fucked us and lied to us and how center right they really are. Of course next to the Republican party, they are fucking great! I mean duh. But you have to acknowledge how they have exploited the progressive wing of the party, suppressed them, and used that just being better than the GQP to do not much in truly fighting the system by holding a metaphorical carrot on a stick for decades. And we are talking about that carrot being fundamental change to help the vast vast majority of average Americans. It should make you very angry.
I'm really wondering, if this little tiny P&N forum filled with 95% Democrats of which the majority seem to be progressive, is not a safe enough space to discuss both MAGA and the corrupt dems at the same time, then really, where is this safe space you need. You really think we are going to do more harm than good discussing it among ourselves here because a few independent lurkers might get turned off? I do kind of find that very sad, but also wrong.
I think independents would run faster and harder to vote for Dems the more they know they are basically middle of the road corporate whores and will shoot down any actual progressive agendas.
And as far as the Dem strategy has gone over the last decades with sticking with the establishment power structure and fucking over any progressive when they can and where they can, it hasn't worked. Not only do we find ourselves here, but they have no idea how to play the game at all anymore, and they haven't. The super incremental change they support in a system where the masses are crying out for systemic change, and playing solitaire while the GQP under Gingrich and McConnel ate their fucking lunch, totally oblivious to what was really changing in America, the rise of this far right populism is partly due to how fundamentally little the system has changed for the little guy for so long. That is a breeding ground for Trump style motherfuckers. The Dems were happy with tiny slow bits of change because they never wanted anything more in the first place. They love our progressive votes but actually disdain us, think of our progressive leaders as the enemy, and they just used us for our votes way too many times while looking down their noses at us.
Sure they talk a big game sometime but it's all so fake. Vote blue no matter who! A literal tweet from Jeffries, but we know they will do anything to sabotage anything truly progressive - whether a candidate to actual policy. They fucked over Bernie, now I am sure of it. And they conspired to make sure Bernie couldn't win in 2020. They definitely fucked in in 2016, something I doubted but it was more me being in denial of how much Dems saw anything progressive as the literal enemy. They fuck over AOC wherever they can. They were fine with a disgraced sexual predator running as a Dem as long as he could hopefully, HOPEFULLY, beat Mamdani, in New York Damn City of all places!
Every single progressive here almost definitely voted for Kamala in 2024. But I know a lot who held their noses at the same time because they Dems have been fucking progressives over for decades and treating them like suckers, and once you realize it, it's fucking gross. We will always disagree about Biden running in 2024 but myself and all the progressives were right. And not just the progressives, the vast majority of all Dem voters did not want him to run again!
I mean where can we talk about the shit show that is the Dems so we can try to do better with our leaders if not here? Do I need to put a disclaimer in my sig that says, as bad as the Dems are, at least they are not evil, not wholly corrupt like MAGA< and have some fundamental decency to them, and belief in law and science and class. I mean I've expressed that before, and I shit on MAGA here all the time, do I need to staple that sign to my head? If the audience was independents, I would take a different tack. I take a different tack when talking to different audiences.
Obviously there are different approaches in some parts of the country, but in more places than not, dismantling the stranglehold the Dem establishment has is going to work better. Obama was an outlier - he had transcendent presence and charisma, and being half black he represented a page turn for progressives as well as Democrats. I think he was actually a progressive candidate - and even though he turned out to be a bit too weak to fight the system enough, he still won handily based on being viewed as a progressive candidate. Other than him, the Dems have looked like shit. Biden ONLY won because of Covid in 2020 AND BARELY. The only big wins the Dems have had in decades have been with progressives or candidates perceived as progressive. Obama included. Clinton also had charm and charisma and sold himself as more left than he was, but he was still not on the level of being seen as progressive as Obama. I mean shit, Bill Clinton and his treasury secretary were driving forces behind de-regulating the Glass-Steagall act that got us the mortgage crisis. They are garbage people, just not as evil as the Republicans even then.
I mean when you have the Dem leadership telling their caucuses to either sit down and behave while Trump trashes everything the State of the Union is supposed to be, or just not go, and can't organize a total walkout on cue the first time Trump says something disgusting, a very classy silent protest to show how illegitimate Trump really is, then I just don't know what to tell you. I get that haphazard shouting and stuff may not work out well - but a classy silent protest would be so powerful. But the leadership is pathetic. That leadership ALL HAS TO GO!
sfg.media
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