Democratic debate #3

[Muse]

OK, gonna wade into this thread, but before reading anything gonna say this:

I tuned in almost 40 minutes late but was rapt in my attention to the end.

I was super impressed with Cory Booker. Actually, I thought they all acquitted themselves well. My favorite 3 based on what I heard are Booker, Warren and Sanders.

 

[Muse]

Looks like Biden is going to be punching down tonight. Out the gate he's attacking Warren and how to pay for her health care plan.

He's not dumb and he can shut up when he needs to. But he kept tripping on his tongue, gets confused. Has a lot of stuff in his head and his voice can't always sort it out in the moment. Not that Trump's any better. He's so general and misinformed and ridiculously self serving.

I'm hoping that one of the Democrats gets some huge momentum somehow and carries the day. We're at cusp now, inaction on the climate crisis will never be forgiven.

 

[blackangst1]

I'm sure you would, but what you don't seem to understand is that we don't want you to have to hide your assets. Your wealth should not be a gate to your healthcare.

Ah yes. The classic liberal idea that everyone is entitled to not only opportunity but equal outcomes.

Protip: that shit don't work in the real world.

 

[Muse]

Castro hitting Biden hard.

Castro blundered when he tried to skewer Biden, the biggest faux pas of the whole debate.

 

[Muse]

Hint: This thread and any other that SlowSpyder posts in makes tons more sense if you DON'T READ THAT POSTER, PERIOD. SKIP THOSE POSTS.

 

[Muse]

I"m the one telling the truth here.

You wouldn't know the truth if it socked you in the nose.

 

[Vic]

Ah yes. The classic liberal idea that everyone is entitled to not only opportunity but equal outcomes.

Protip: that shit don't work in the real world.

You might want to read that again. What the poster you quoted said was entirely about equal opportunity and in no way about equal outcomes.
He quite clearly said that he was perfectly happy for Glenn to be able to keep his assets if those less fortunate had equal opportunity to healthcare. The final outcome is still unequal, as Glenn keeps his assets, without having to hide them from the govt, and the less fortunate are still less fortunate, albeit maybe healthier.

 

[ivwshane]

You might want to read that again. What the poster you quoted said was entirely about equal opportunity and in no way about equal outcomes.

Yeah but then he wouldn't have an argument

 

[Muse]

How does someone like Beto who wants to seize guns get elected in Texas of all places??

His campaign even printed up t-shirts for the occasion. Someone is probably going to get shot for wearing one of those shirts in Texas

IIRC, he WAS a congressman in TX, not currently.

 

[Vic]

F**** the NRA and f*** politicians giving a s*** what they think. Look where we are with politicians doing the reverse. My two cents.

It's ok to say fuck and shit here. And the issue is that elections are as much about getting the other side to stay home as it is about getting your side to the polls. Just ask Trump in 2016.

 

[blackangst1]

You might want to read that again. What the poster you quoted said was entirely about equal opportunity and in no way about equal outcomes.
He quite clearly said that he was perfectly happy for Glenn to be able to keep his assets if those less fortunate had equal opportunity to healthcare. The final outcome is still unequal, as Glenn keeps his assets, without having to hide them from the govt, and the less fortunate are still less fortunate, albeit maybe healthier.

Fair enough. I misread it.

 

[Sunburn74]

It's ok to say fuck and shit here. And the issue is that elections are as much about getting the other side to stay home as it is about getting your side to the polls. Just ask Trump in 2016.

I don't think that many new people are going to show up to vote to "save the AR-15".

 

[woolfe9998]

Just out of curiosity, why do you think everyone dreads going to the DMV across the board?

Because they have long lines. Though the lines in the DMV near me have gotten shorter over time, not longer. This is likely due to the fact that many things can now be accomplished online.

 

[Bitek]

I don't know... it seems like the Democratic party machine is backing Biden. It looks like we might be getting a battle for which old white guy who says stupid things while on camera will be leading America in the early 2020's

My generalized opinion that has probably been mostly rehashed in other posts is....

Biden continues to walk the line of not fucking up just enough for it to cost him big. He's going to flatline between 25% and 30% and probably not move from there unless something really weird happens.

Warren continues to do her thing which is stay on message and not make major flub ups. She's going to continue to erode away Bernie votes.

Bernie. Same dog. No new tricks. But more hoarse from barking too much. He's too proud and stubborn to accept Warren has him bested, bow out and endorse her. He reshaped the Democrat platform, but this isn't his race to win.

Harris. Stick a fork in her. You could almost sense her going from drunk and giddy in the first half to just flat out depressed and accepting her campaign is done. She's out.

Klobochar. She'll make a decent VP. But she's not top ticket. Done.

Castro. Shut up. He was the Delany of this debate. Just an annoying dick. Get out and let the grown ups work.

Beto. I can see Biden tapping him for VP. But he's done. Or just take your national recognition and name back to Texas and take out Cornyn.

Booker. One of his best debates and he had some great prepared statements. But he's not the guy. He's out.

Pete. VP. I could easily vote for a Warren/Pete ticket. But that's way too white to win the general. I don't think he's got a lane to swim in any longer.

Yang. Man I love this guy. But he's like the opposite of Biden's demographics. I sort of see him like Bernie and can shape policy in future elections but this isn't his place to be.

My thoughts pretty much to a T.

The only thing I'd add is a think Biden is looking very vulnerable and his support could easily crumble if there were a viable candidate to take it.

Warren could get some of it, but she needs to moderate some positions to close the deal.

Eg. Banning private insurance... It's going to scare some voters. Learn some pragmatism.

Harris was trying to be too cute and girlish. Wasn't helping.

 

[Bitek]

It's ok to say fuck and shit here. And the issue is that elections are as much about getting the other side to stay home as it is about getting your side to the polls. Just ask Trump in 2016.

Yeah, it's going to be interesting to see the consequences of Beto's comment.
I'm sure the right is going ape shit.

On one hand, we have sooooo many guns out there, a voluntary buyback would be rather ineffective unless the offer price was very high and set a high floor to the market (assuming the new gun ban was in effect.)

I don't see how a mandatory program could possibly work without some unacceptable Draconian measures by law enforcement.

Beto sounds more about the passion than the reasoning of the policy.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Yeah, it's going to be interesting to see the consequences of Beto's comment.
I'm sure the right is going ape shit.

On one hand, we have sooooo many guns out there, a voluntary buyback would be rather ineffective unless the offer price was very high and set a high floor to the market (assuming the new gun ban was in effect.)

I don't see how a mandatory program could possibly work without some unacceptable Draconian measures by law enforcement.

Beto sounds more about the passion than the reasoning of the policy.

This debate did not fundamentally change the power rankings of the candidates. The nomination is essentially between Warren, Sanders and Biden at this point, with everyone else positioning themselves for cabinet positions.

I’ve not enjoyed the debate format because it encourages the lower tier candidated to go for the big sound byte to raise their profile. Harris did it to Biden. Beto did it with regards to guns. I know Democrats who are also huge 2A nutters.

Voluntary buy back? Sure, lets give it a try. Mandatory? You’re going to end up with people staying home.

 

[Bitek]

This debate did not fundamentally change the power rankings of the candidates. The nomination is essentially between Warren, Sanders and Biden at this point, with everyone else positioning themselves for cabinet positions.

I’ve not enjoyed the debate format because it encourages the lower tier candidated to go for the big sound byte to raise their profile. Harris did it to Biden. Beto did it with regards to guns. I know Democrats who are also huge 2A nutters.

Voluntary buy back? Sure, lets give it a try. Mandatory? You’re going to end up with people staying home.

Yeah, I don't think it will be a big reshuffle, but I do think everytime Joe has to do one of these things it reveals weaknesses and raises doubts. He may skate though, but it's on thin ice.

The field really needs to culled further. I agree it's wasted airtime to desperate campaigns looking for a cheap shot or hail mary.

I'd rather see more time between Biden and the M4A ppl really explain how they think we would transition and actually get employers to return wages now directed to benefits back to workers rather than their own pockets.

I have little faith that this will actually happen, and certainly not immediately.

I think there is a high probability that there will be increased taxes on some workers without increased pay while they get forced into a giant gov program, meanwhile being attacked by conservatives from the federal, state and local levels in every way possible.

That's even after Ds win the Senate, scrap the filibuster, and get legislation to the WH before the 2022 midterms.

The Dotard had a better chance of winning a Nobel imo.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Yeah, I don't think it will be a big reshuffle, but I do think everytime Joe has to do one of these things it reveals weaknesses and raises doubts. He may skate though, but it's on thin ice.

The field really needs to culled further. I agree it's wasted airtime to desperate campaigns looking for a cheap shot or hail mary.

I'd rather see more time between Biden and the M4A ppl really explain how they think we would transition and actually get employers to return wages now directed to benefits back to workers rather than their own pockets.

I have little faith that this will actually happen, and certainly not immediately.

I think there is a high probability that there will be increased taxes on some workers without increased pay while they get forced into a giant gov program, meanwhile being attacked by conservatives from the federal, state and local levels in every way possible.

That's even after Ds win the Senate, scrap the filibuster, and get legislation to the WH before the 2022 midterms.

The Dotard had a better chance of winning a Nobel imo.

Our society and the planet are facing incredibly challenging problems, and there are no easy solutions. It would be nice if our political process better vetted candidates relative to how they will lead us through them.

I would love to see a Warren/Buttigieg ticket because I think she is the only candidate with deep policy ideas and I like the idea of veterans having a more prominent voice in our government again.

It’s no wonder the carnival barker won the last election. He is capable of doing so again.

 

[Sunburn74]

Our society and the planet are facing incredibly challenging problems, and there are no easy solutions. It would be nice if our political process better vetted candidates relative to how they will lead us through them.

I would love to see a Warren/Buttigieg ticket because I think she is the only candidate with deep policy ideas and I like the idea of veterans having a more prominent voice in our government again.

It’s no wonder the carnival barker won the last election. He is capable of doing so again.

The failure of vetting is mostly at the lower levels. Many state reps are wholly unqualified to run for office talk less of congressmen. Yet they have much less scrutiny and much more influence on the laws and processes that affect daily life. Many lack a very basic understanding of the topics they are asked to vote on.

 

[Muse]

The failure of vetting is mostly at the lower levels. Many state reps are wholly unqualified to run for office talk less of congressmen. Yet they have much less scrutiny and much more influence on the laws and processes that affect daily life. Many lack a very basic understanding of the topics they are asked to vote on.

Yeah, look, no surprise. The POTUS is an ignoramus with regard to the nature of our problems, in particular problems that need to be understood from a technical, scientific standpoint. Most people get it from TV. This was told to me 45 years ago and it still remains true. Voters elected (thanks to our antiquated electoral system) a guy whose wholly unqualified, whose claim to legitimacy was having a reality TV show. That's how clueless they are.

To me it's clear that we are at the precipice now. We won't necessarily go over it, there's still hope. But very shortly there may be little hope.

 

[Jaskalas]

Warren needs a better answer on healthcare when someone confronts her on costs.

Yes, you will pay more in taxes... so you can pay FAR LESS in medical costs, never go bankrupt due to them, and always have access to care. The wealth return from that is quite large and immeasurable. But people may not understand such a complex scheme until we help familiarize them with a more direct return on investment with Basic Income. They need proof of concept that the government can pool money and achieve a great result in our favor. We need to get them to hope in a better future again.

Until then, I don't blame her for not wanting to give Trump a soundbite clip for the General Election. But she still needs to provide an answer to that question.

 

[SKORPI0]

nm.

 

[Bitek]

Warren needs a better answer on healthcare when someone confronts her on costs.

Yes, you will pay more in taxes... so you can pay FAR LESS in medical costs, never go bankrupt due to them, and always have access to care. The wealth return from that is quite large and immeasurable. But people may not understand such a complex scheme until we help familiarize them with a more direct return on investment with Basic Income. They need proof of concept that the government can pool money and achieve a great result in our favor. We need to get them to hope in a better future again.

Until then, I don't blame her for not wanting to give Trump a soundbite clip for the General Election. But she still needs to provide an answer to that question.

I'm not sure there is a good answer.

While the academic answer is that people will pay less overall, I don't think it's an area that that benefit will be immediately obvious.

Otherwise the transition will be highly disruptive, threaten many interests, and be incredibly and destructively vulnerable to misinformation, fearmongering and legal attacks, all due a populace that distrusts gov to begin with

Getting Obamacare passed will look like a cakewalk in comparison.