Delphi to ax 24,000 out of 34,000 jobs

[MikeMike]

ok lets see some misinformation

$26 is STARTING BASE SALARY, not what they get paid 4 years into it.

$12.50 would be the NEW base salary.

damn, if i can get a guarenteed $26 base salary i would go there too.

now lets restart this conversation over and go with that information, or did i just throw to much logical thought into this thread.

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: dexvx

Originally posted by: lobadobadingdong

Originally posted by: SearchMaster
I understand wanting to keep their top talent aboard if the company survives, but if your 486 managers directly or indirectly led to the essential bankrupcy of the company they may not deserve almost $200K each in bonus money.

in this case I don't know which is which, I do know one of the reasons american cars are so expensive is because the labor unions run the companies, not the executives.

When you lead a company to failure (like Delphi), you don't deserve to bonus yourself or give yourself money so you won't leave. The problem is 2 fold, IMO. First you have the UAW at the production level making rediculous demands that are often not feasible in a competitive world. Secondly, you have corporate execs who are responsible for each other's salaries and giving rediculous pay spikes during bankruptcy.

it's not these guys that did it. 1st, the 486th guy down the list rarely has any real power to kill the company. second, the top management, iirc, is a team of guys that specialize in bankruptcy reorgnizations. they're new.

i will agree that execs are generally responsible for each others salaries in the US, and is a main reason that execs are paid far more here than their german and japanese counterparts.

I really don't see how you could do any better with 26/hr labor... there's only so much you can do with economies of scale and cutting material costs. Unions were the key factor that ran this company to the ground.

I can see why they would want to compensate the new managment team with high bonuses. People with MBAs and a lot of experience in the industry are hot commodity and will require high compensation. These guys can go work just about anywhere for the same salary, so saying that managment team won't be getting compensated is saying that delphi will not have a managment team. It's not as if the managment team will have hard time finding new jobs...

 

[Martin]

Originally posted by: lobadobadingdong

Originally posted by: SearchMaster
I understand wanting to keep their top talent aboard if the company survives, but if your 486 managers directly or indirectly led to the essential bankrupcy of the company they may not deserve almost $200K each in bonus money.

in this case I don't know which is which, I do know one of the reasons american cars are so expensive is because the labor unions run the companies, not the executives.

Don't be ridiculous. In Germany union leaders have (by law) seats on the board of chairmen. Nothing even close to this exists in the US and you complain about unions runnign companies? No, GM and Delpi suffer because of incompetent management as much if not more so than from unions. Thus, the unions are right in rejecting this offer until the company offers to fire the incompetent idiots that ran it into the ground and offer a similar paycut to the remaining people.

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: meltdown75

Originally posted by: JLGatsby
If you work in a factory, you sure as hell do not deserve $26 per hour.

$26 an hour, is about $54,000 a year. Most of those people probably only have high school diplomas, some of them not even that. I find that to be insulting.

This is America, land of opportunity, the wealtheist nation that ever existed, and people want to work in a factory.

similarly, $12.50 an hour seems insulting to me.

also, believe it or not, some of these workers' first choice might not have been factory work. not everyone gets what they want out of a job / career.

...and to remain consistent with my postings in other union news articles: P&N.

Wow you must've had an awesome life.

I would've loved to make $12.50 right outta highschool... instead i did IT work for a doctor for 7 bucks an hour. Right now I make 12.50 an hour and I'm some 20 credits away from getting two degrees from michigan.

 

[Saga]

Originally posted by: rh71
so the 10000 people who weren't part of the union are staying. Got it. :thumbsup:

I wondered who else would notice that.. says 24,000 in the Union, then goes to say that 24,000 jobs will be cut.. hmm, cooincidence? :shocked:

 

[Ktulu]

Originally posted by: meltdown75

Originally posted by: JLGatsby
If you work in a factory, you sure as hell do not deserve $26 per hour.

$26 an hour, is about $54,000 a year. Most of those people probably only have high school diplomas, some of them not even that. I find that to be insulting.

This is America, land of opportunity, the wealtheist nation that ever existed, and people want to work in a factory.

similarly, $12.50 an hour seems insulting to me.

also, believe it or not, some of these workers' first choice might not have been factory work. not everyone gets what they want out of a job / career.

...and to remain consistent with my postings in other union news articles: P&N.

How is $12.50 an hour insulting, what's insulting is all the college graduates who go out and are barely able to make that. $12.50 is a perfect base wage anything higher than that would be an insult to those of us who took the time to go to school and make something of ourselves.

 

[meltdown75]

how is $12.50/hr an insult...

hmm, perhaps we should ask someone trying to survive on such a wage.

btw, I still say P&N.

 

[mercanucaribe]

Good, screw those rednecks.

 

[FoBoT]

the unions will strike
the workers will be replaced
Delphi won't die




next!

 

[HeroOfPellinor]

Originally posted by: meltdown75
how is $12.50/hr an insult...

hmm, perhaps we should ask someone trying to survive on such a wage.

btw, I still say P&N.

Okay.

I graduated with a college degree IN CALIFORNIA and started out lower than that. In fact, by the time I was actually making this much I was married and my wife quit her job to finish college so my income was supporting both of us plus paying for school. We accrued no debt and we managed and we were happy.

 

[meltdown75]

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor

Originally posted by: meltdown75
how is $12.50/hr an insult...

hmm, perhaps we should ask someone trying to survive on such a wage.

btw, I still say P&N.

Okay.

I graduated with a college degree IN CALIFORNIA and started out lower than that. In fact, by the time I was actually making this much I was married and my wife quit her job to finish college so my income was supporting both of us plus paying for school. We accrued no debt and we managed and we were happy.

congrats.

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: meltdown75
how is $12.50/hr an insult...

hmm, perhaps we should ask someone trying to survive on such a wage.

btw, I still say P&N.

My stepbro has a college degree in biology and works in a govt lab making 14 bucks an hour. He's not starving to death.

I "try to survive" on such wage (12.50) every summer.... my parents don't pay any of my bills when im working full time. It's a hell of a lot easier than handling two majors to graduate in 4 years and 15-20hrs of part time work. So don't tell me that 12.50 is low for a highschool dropout.

Living on 24K a year out of highschool is barely a struggle.

 

[meltdown75]

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: meltdown75
how is $12.50/hr an insult...

hmm, perhaps we should ask someone trying to survive on such a wage.

btw, I still say P&N.

My stepbro has a college degree in biology and works in a govt lab making 14 bucks an hour. He's not starving to death.

I "try to survive" on such wage (12.50) every summer.... my parents don't pay any of my bills when im working full time. It's a hell of a lot easier than handling two majors to graduate in 4 years and 15-20hrs of part time work. So don't tell me that 12.50 is low for a highschool dropout.

do you own a home? do you have children?

i cannot believe people think $12.50 is a decent wage.

:beer: cheers to devil's advocates.

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: meltdown75

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: meltdown75
how is $12.50/hr an insult...

hmm, perhaps we should ask someone trying to survive on such a wage.

btw, I still say P&N.

My stepbro has a college degree in biology and works in a govt lab making 14 bucks an hour. He's not starving to death.

I "try to survive" on such wage (12.50) every summer.... my parents don't pay any of my bills when im working full time. It's a hell of a lot easier than handling two majors to graduate in 4 years and 15-20hrs of part time work. So don't tell me that 12.50 is low for a highschool dropout.

do you own a home? do you have children?

i cannot believe people think $12.50 is a decent wage.

:beer: cheers to devil's advocates.

It's a BASE STARTING wage. As in you know absolutely nothing and have no skills.

Regardless, Employers are not responsible for poor financial decision, unplanned parenthood or anything else. If you have kids, own a house and work on the line, the STATE should help you, not your employer.

It's analogous to family living in poverty (2 kids, 2 adults, household income under 22K), asking their employers for a raise because they're living in poverty. It's simply not the employers responsibility to do that.

 

[PingSpike]

Should McDonalds fry cooks expect a wage they can buy a house, raise kids and save for retirement on?

 

[meltdown75]

oh, i must be in the wrong thread.

(unless McDonald's somehow worked it's way into the auto sector...)

 

[Shyatic]

The problem is on both sides... greedy executives, but then again... look at the Japanese car companies. They pay their employees LESS, have HIGHER employee satisfaction, and have faster turnaround time on building cars in AMERICAN plants. For example, the Accord and Civic are made in America -- in NON-union states. Honda pays them a decent wage for decent work, nothing like 56k/year for working at a FACTORY (with little to no education). I apologise if there are some geniouses in factories or whatever, but the fact is that if you paid for a decent education, that's how you make a return, when you get a job. If you have no education, you get rich by playing the lottery or owning/starting your own business.

It's the unions that push automakers to turn around such sh*t products -- and then the executives who run off with whatever money the company makes.

Damn... I want to be an executive.

 

[spidey07]

um, honda and toyota do infact pay their factory workers 60K and higher per year.

Group leaders are in the 150K range - with high school diploma.

 

[HeroOfPellinor]

Originally posted by: meltdown75

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: meltdown75
how is $12.50/hr an insult...

hmm, perhaps we should ask someone trying to survive on such a wage.

btw, I still say P&N.

My stepbro has a college degree in biology and works in a govt lab making 14 bucks an hour. He's not starving to death.

I "try to survive" on such wage (12.50) every summer.... my parents don't pay any of my bills when im working full time. It's a hell of a lot easier than handling two majors to graduate in 4 years and 15-20hrs of part time work. So don't tell me that 12.50 is low for a highschool dropout.

do you own a home? do you have children?

Actually, 6 years after I took that job, I'm at the same job, still living in California, have two kids, and have owned my own house for 3 1/2 years and my wife still doesn't work.

 

[meltdown75]

perhaps our base wages here in Canada are generally higher for that line of work (no pun intended) . I don't know, seems low to me but I don't live there, so I guess I will just can it for now.

 

[HeroOfPellinor]

Originally posted by: meltdown75
perhaps our base wages here in Canada are generally higher for that line of work.

They were at Delphi too....but look what's happening now.

 

[shilala]

Originally posted by: Ktulu

Originally posted by: meltdown75

Originally posted by: JLGatsby
If you work in a factory, you sure as hell do not deserve $26 per hour.

$26 an hour, is about $54,000 a year. Most of those people probably only have high school diplomas, some of them not even that. I find that to be insulting.

This is America, land of opportunity, the wealtheist nation that ever existed, and people want to work in a factory.

similarly, $12.50 an hour seems insulting to me.

also, believe it or not, some of these workers' first choice might not have been factory work. not everyone gets what they want out of a job / career.

...and to remain consistent with my postings in other union news articles: P&N.

How is $12.50 an hour insulting, what's insulting is all the college graduates who go out and are barely able to make that. $12.50 is a perfect base wage anything higher than that would be an insult to those of us who took the time to go to school and make something of ourselves.

Sheee-it.
I wasn't aware that those $26.00 factory jobs weren't available to college graduates.
I'm insulted that someone who goes to college thinks they are worth more than $26.00.
I'm insulted that people choose to go to college because a factory job is beneath them.

I think $12.50 is a perfect base wage for anyone who chooses to wiggle out of contributing to the productive work force by going to college for 4 to 6 years while I had to bust my ass scrubbing toliets and digging holes.

I suppose creating commerce, creating products, and doing a hard day's work to pay to put food on the table and put your children through college isn't nearly as meaningful as going to college and "making something of yourself".

[/Devil's Advocate]

 

[Pocahontas]

My father graduated from hs, went to the service did a few credits at a community college and began working for General Motors. They have always paid for his tuition but he never wanted to go back. Did he like his job at a factory nope, never. But he was home everyday when my brother & I came home from school while my Mom was out selling real estate. The last time I new, he made a little over 29.00..when we needed for anything he worked overtime to ensure we had everything that he never had and he never ever ever complained. His plant was bought by Delphi several years ago, but since hes at retirement time, he took it instead of risking further rapings by the UAW. No one wants to work in a foctory anymore and due to costs most people hes worked with over the years jobs have been outsourced, hes lucky and I'm thankful.

 

[Pocatello]

$12.50 is about right if all you have is a high school diploma. If you don't like it, get a better education, or be your own boss.

 

[JLGatsby]

Originally posted by: meltdown75

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: meltdown75
how is $12.50/hr an insult...

hmm, perhaps we should ask someone trying to survive on such a wage.

btw, I still say P&N.

My stepbro has a college degree in biology and works in a govt lab making 14 bucks an hour. He's not starving to death.

I "try to survive" on such wage (12.50) every summer.... my parents don't pay any of my bills when im working full time. It's a hell of a lot easier than handling two majors to graduate in 4 years and 15-20hrs of part time work. So don't tell me that 12.50 is low for a highschool dropout.

do you own a home? do you have children?

i cannot believe people think $12.50 is a decent wage.

:beer: cheers to devil's advocates.

If you only make $12/hour you should not be having kids.