Delphi to ax 24,000 out of 34,000 jobs

[Ktulu]

Originally posted by: shilala

Originally posted by: Ktulu

Originally posted by: meltdown75

Originally posted by: JLGatsby
If you work in a factory, you sure as hell do not deserve $26 per hour.

$26 an hour, is about $54,000 a year. Most of those people probably only have high school diplomas, some of them not even that. I find that to be insulting.

This is America, land of opportunity, the wealtheist nation that ever existed, and people want to work in a factory.

similarly, $12.50 an hour seems insulting to me.

also, believe it or not, some of these workers' first choice might not have been factory work. not everyone gets what they want out of a job / career.

...and to remain consistent with my postings in other union news articles: P&N.

How is $12.50 an hour insulting, what's insulting is all the college graduates who go out and are barely able to make that. $12.50 is a perfect base wage anything higher than that would be an insult to those of us who took the time to go to school and make something of ourselves.

Sheee-it.
I wasn't aware that those $26.00 factory jobs weren't available to college graduates.
I'm insulted that someone who goes to college thinks they are worth more than $26.00.
I'm insulted that people choose to go to college because a factory job is beneath them.

I think $12.50 is a perfect base wage for anyone who chooses to wiggle out of contributing to the productive work force by going to college for 4 to 6 years while I had to bust my ass scrubbing toliets and digging holes.

I suppose creating commerce, creating products, and doing a hard day's work to pay to put food on the table and put your children through college isn't nearly as meaningful as going to college and "making something of yourself".

[/Devil's Advocate]

Thank you for playing devil's advocate.

I'm not trying to say that the work these people do isn't important, but why do they believe they are worth more than the rest of the workforce. I'm sure alot of people here would LOVE to make the kind of money they were making and enjoy the same benefits, but sadly they don't. You get paid what you're worth and that's the way it should be. I don't make the rules.

And how is going to college wiggling out of contributing to the productive work force. You better believe i was working fulltime when i was in college and never complained about the money i made because i knew i was getting a fair wage.

 

[shilala]

Originally posted by: Ktulu

Originally posted by: shilala

Originally posted by: Ktulu

Originally posted by: meltdown75

Originally posted by: JLGatsby
If you work in a factory, you sure as hell do not deserve $26 per hour.

$26 an hour, is about $54,000 a year. Most of those people probably only have high school diplomas, some of them not even that. I find that to be insulting.

This is America, land of opportunity, the wealtheist nation that ever existed, and people want to work in a factory.

similarly, $12.50 an hour seems insulting to me.

also, believe it or not, some of these workers' first choice might not have been factory work. not everyone gets what they want out of a job / career.

...and to remain consistent with my postings in other union news articles: P&N.

How is $12.50 an hour insulting, what's insulting is all the college graduates who go out and are barely able to make that. $12.50 is a perfect base wage anything higher than that would be an insult to those of us who took the time to go to school and make something of ourselves.

Sheee-it.
I wasn't aware that those $26.00 factory jobs weren't available to college graduates.
I'm insulted that someone who goes to college thinks they are worth more than $26.00.
I'm insulted that people choose to go to college because a factory job is beneath them.

I think $12.50 is a perfect base wage for anyone who chooses to wiggle out of contributing to the productive work force by going to college for 4 to 6 years while I had to bust my ass scrubbing toliets and digging holes.

I suppose creating commerce, creating products, and doing a hard day's work to pay to put food on the table and put your children through college isn't nearly as meaningful as going to college and "making something of yourself".

[/Devil's Advocate]

Thank you for playing devil's advocate.

I'm not trying to say that the work these people do isn't important, but why do they believe they are worth more than the rest of the workforce. I'm sure alot of people here would LOVE to make the kind of money they were making and enjoy the same benefits, but sadly they don't. You get paid what you're worth and that's the way it should be. I don't make the rules.

You're right. The folks at Delphi are being paid what they are worth, and that's the way it should be.

This bullshit of "I went to college and I don't make that much so they shouldn't" is about the most childish self-centered crap I've ever heard.
It's about the 1,000th time I've seen it expressed in one of these threads.
You'd think it would have been covered by second grade with the "Fox and the Grapes" story, but it appears a good many of the gentlemen here must have been sick that day.

Because a person is formally educated, it does not entitle them to anything.
It sure as hell doesn't make their labor any more valid, and it certainly doesn't make them better than those people at Delphi.
Those people have busted their asses to build that company. They've given their lives, health, time and labor.
They certainly deserve better than to have their wages cut so that the executives can get richer.

 

[Ktulu]

Originally posted by: shilala

Originally posted by: Ktulu

Originally posted by: shilala

Originally posted by: Ktulu

Originally posted by: meltdown75

Originally posted by: JLGatsby
If you work in a factory, you sure as hell do not deserve $26 per hour.

$26 an hour, is about $54,000 a year. Most of those people probably only have high school diplomas, some of them not even that. I find that to be insulting.

This is America, land of opportunity, the wealtheist nation that ever existed, and people want to work in a factory.

similarly, $12.50 an hour seems insulting to me.

also, believe it or not, some of these workers' first choice might not have been factory work. not everyone gets what they want out of a job / career.

...and to remain consistent with my postings in other union news articles: P&N.

How is $12.50 an hour insulting, what's insulting is all the college graduates who go out and are barely able to make that. $12.50 is a perfect base wage anything higher than that would be an insult to those of us who took the time to go to school and make something of ourselves.

Sheee-it.
I wasn't aware that those $26.00 factory jobs weren't available to college graduates.
I'm insulted that someone who goes to college thinks they are worth more than $26.00.
I'm insulted that people choose to go to college because a factory job is beneath them.

I think $12.50 is a perfect base wage for anyone who chooses to wiggle out of contributing to the productive work force by going to college for 4 to 6 years while I had to bust my ass scrubbing toliets and digging holes.

I suppose creating commerce, creating products, and doing a hard day's work to pay to put food on the table and put your children through college isn't nearly as meaningful as going to college and "making something of yourself".

[/Devil's Advocate]

Thank you for playing devil's advocate.

I'm not trying to say that the work these people do isn't important, but why do they believe they are worth more than the rest of the workforce. I'm sure alot of people here would LOVE to make the kind of money they were making and enjoy the same benefits, but sadly they don't. You get paid what you're worth and that's the way it should be. I don't make the rules.

You're right. The folks at Delphi are being paid what they are worth, and that's the way it should be.

This bullshit of "I went to college and I don't make that much so they shouldn't" is about the most childish self-centered crap I've ever heard.
It's about the 1,000th time I've seen it expressed in one of these threads.
You'd think it would have been covered by second grade with the "Fox and the Grapes" story, but it appears a good many of the gentlemen here must have been sick that day.

Because a person is formally educated, it does not entitle them to anything.
It sure as hell doesn't make their labor any more valid, and it certainly doesn't make them better than those people at Delphi.
Those people have busted their asses to build that company. They've given their lives, health, time and labor.
They certainly deserve better than to have their wages cut so that the executives can get richer.

I agree with you here, it's absurd to offer a paycuts and turn around and give yourself bonuses.

I guess an employee's worth is a matter of opinion. So i'll let the market handle what should be considered a fair wage and leave it at that, as should the unions.

There are millions of other people doing very similar jobs to what the Delphi employees do with out being offered such a handsome wage and benefits, do you consider this fair?

 

[Cattlegod]

How many of you people have worked on the line?

Well I can say that I have (at ford). The job is worth about 8-10 bucks an hour.

The lazy asses get to sit around all day on chairs while they put on parts, get relief every 15 mins to have a cig or whatever they want. If they don't feel like doing a job they just say "I'm not gonna do that" and that is that.

Oh and by the way, you can come in as you please, because most of the people there make way more than they need, so they might not come in Friday or Monday because the money isn't needed and then you are left scrambing to find someone else to do the job.


The above words are coming from me, someone who has worked on the line and someone who has supervised the UAW.

Thanks.

 

[JS80]

If they don't get wage concessions from the unions exactly how they want, Delphi is no more. What is better - don't agree to $12.50/hour base and 34,000 lose their jobs or agree to $12.50/hour base and most people get to keep their job?

As for the management bonuses, those incentives are put into place so everyone doesn't start jumping ship. Imagine if half the management just left because they have better offers elsewhere - where would Delphi be? Factory workers cannot run a large corporation. It is much easier (=cheaper) to find a non-skilled worker than an executive.

There is way too much sense of entitlement. Wages should be set by the market, not by Unions who threaten to strike.

 

[Cattlegod]

What you people fail to understand about the pay raise of management is this:

Right now if you are salaried at Delphi, you have 0 incentive to actually stay at the company. And if you are someone who is an outstanding performer, you will look for another job because you know you are good and have the assets needed by other companies.

So if they did not give pay increases to management to stay, all the good people would leave and you would be left with a company full of scraps and very poor management. They may only have a handfull of very good people, but they need to keep what they can get. It would be suicide otherwise.

People fail to understand that.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: Cattlegod
What you people fail to understand about the pay raise of management is this:

Right now if you are salaried at Delphi, you have 0 incentive to actually stay at the company. And if you are someone who is an outstanding performer, you will look for another job because you know you are good and have the assets needed by other companies.

So if they did not give pay increases to management to stay, all the good people would leave and you would be left with a company full of scraps and very poor management. They may only have a handfull of very good people, but they need to keep what they can get. It would be suicide otherwise.

People fail to understand that.

It seems like there are a lot of socialists on this board that fail to understand basic economics and finance too.

 

[Cattlegod]

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: Cattlegod

It seems like there are a lot of socialists on this board that fail to understand basic economics and finance too.

edit: nm, thought you were attacking me

 

[shilala]

Originally posted by: Ktulu

Originally posted by: shilala

Originally posted by: Ktulu

Originally posted by: shilala

Originally posted by: Ktulu

Originally posted by: meltdown75

Originally posted by: JLGatsby
If you work in a factory, you sure as hell do not deserve $26 per hour.

$26 an hour, is about $54,000 a year. Most of those people probably only have high school diplomas, some of them not even that. I find that to be insulting.

This is America, land of opportunity, the wealtheist nation that ever existed, and people want to work in a factory.

similarly, $12.50 an hour seems insulting to me.

also, believe it or not, some of these workers' first choice might not have been factory work. not everyone gets what they want out of a job / career.

...and to remain consistent with my postings in other union news articles: P&N.

How is $12.50 an hour insulting, what's insulting is all the college graduates who go out and are barely able to make that. $12.50 is a perfect base wage anything higher than that would be an insult to those of us who took the time to go to school and make something of ourselves.

Sheee-it.
I wasn't aware that those $26.00 factory jobs weren't available to college graduates.
I'm insulted that someone who goes to college thinks they are worth more than $26.00.
I'm insulted that people choose to go to college because a factory job is beneath them.

I think $12.50 is a perfect base wage for anyone who chooses to wiggle out of contributing to the productive work force by going to college for 4 to 6 years while I had to bust my ass scrubbing toliets and digging holes.

I suppose creating commerce, creating products, and doing a hard day's work to pay to put food on the table and put your children through college isn't nearly as meaningful as going to college and "making something of yourself".

[/Devil's Advocate]

Thank you for playing devil's advocate.

I'm not trying to say that the work these people do isn't important, but why do they believe they are worth more than the rest of the workforce. I'm sure alot of people here would LOVE to make the kind of money they were making and enjoy the same benefits, but sadly they don't. You get paid what you're worth and that's the way it should be. I don't make the rules.

You're right. The folks at Delphi are being paid what they are worth, and that's the way it should be.

This bullshit of "I went to college and I don't make that much so they shouldn't" is about the most childish self-centered crap I've ever heard.
It's about the 1,000th time I've seen it expressed in one of these threads.
You'd think it would have been covered by second grade with the "Fox and the Grapes" story, but it appears a good many of the gentlemen here must have been sick that day.

Because a person is formally educated, it does not entitle them to anything.
It sure as hell doesn't make their labor any more valid, and it certainly doesn't make them better than those people at Delphi.
Those people have busted their asses to build that company. They've given their lives, health, time and labor.
They certainly deserve better than to have their wages cut so that the executives can get richer.

I agree with you here, it's absurd to offer a paycuts and turn around and give yourself bonuses.

I guess an employee's worth is a matter of opinion. So i'll let the market handle what should be considered a fair wage and leave it at that, as should the unions.

There are millions of other people doing very similar jobs to what the Delphi employees do with out being offered such a handsome wage and benefits, do you consider this fair?

A Union is a group of people who bargain for their wage.
They band together at the risk of losing their livelihood in order to command a fair wage through collective bargaining.
The wages that union employees command are what DRIVES what the market sets as a fair wage.
"If the UAW worker's can fetch $26.00 an hour for this job, we wish to also be fairly compensated for our work" sort of thing.
Prevailing wages are also set by calculating the highest wages in the area. Those are generally Union worker's wages.

Yes, I think it's very fair. So do the Union employers until their management has driven them into the ground. (I'll concede that comment, because it's just the asshole in me coming out. I'm full aware that it's a multi-part process that causes a company to get into financial difficulty, and that the blame rests on both sides.)

So far as "There are millions of other people doing very similar jobs to what the Delphi employees do with out being offered such a handsome wage and benefits, do you consider this fair?"
No, I don't.
There are people being paid a bowl of rice for doing similar jobs.
I don't think that's right, either.

 

[PingSpike]

Yeah, in the end they will be paid what the market will bear. It just seems like they are in for an adjustment. You can't blame the union members for taking all they can get...I mean who doesn't want more money? But there are other people that will do the work for less, some here and some in other countries.

A lot of the animosity for unions is based on jealousy. I'd be lying if I weren't jealous of their position (before now at least). I wish I had an opportunity to make that much money right out of high school without spending 4 years in college essentially not making any financial progress at all. (and indeed, most in college come out with a load of debt that has to be paid off...we start out behind them at first) But I didn't. I wasn't born in that area or that era.

Things are looking rough for them right now, but they're looking rough for young people right now too. You do what they say, you go to college and take on all this debt with the promise of the big money on the other side. Only it isn't always there. The market changes, your field isn't worth as much anymore. Your degree isn't worth that much anymore. The school costs even more. When we hear these people complaining...we think what are they complaining about? They've been making good money, had great benefits for years. They probably have a house and some other assets, if they're smart they have savings for their kids college....maybe even a setup for retirement. We have none of that. They're established, and we feel left behind...and we don't see an easy path to catch up anymore. The rug is being pulled out from under them, yes...but its like "Hey...I'm sorry your ride didn't last as long as you'd hoped...but you know they didn't even offer me a ticket."

 

[JS80]

Union wages are inherintly not market wage. The word "Fair" can be interpreted differently. Because unions have the power to threaten to shut down business if not received a certain demand, and management cannot legally hire someone else outside the union, it is inherintly NOT market wage, hence unfair.

 

[Slew Foot]

SH!t, I went to f'n med school and I still make what comes out to $10/hr.

 

[JLGatsby]

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: Cattlegod
What you people fail to understand about the pay raise of management is this:

Right now if you are salaried at Delphi, you have 0 incentive to actually stay at the company. And if you are someone who is an outstanding performer, you will look for another job because you know you are good and have the assets needed by other companies.

So if they did not give pay increases to management to stay, all the good people would leave and you would be left with a company full of scraps and very poor management. They may only have a handfull of very good people, but they need to keep what they can get. It would be suicide otherwise.

People fail to understand that.

It seems like there are a lot of socialists on this board that fail to understand basic economics and finance too.

:thumbsup:

"Take from them, give to me." Is the left's solution to every problem.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: shilala

Originally posted by: Ktulu

Originally posted by: shilala

Originally posted by: Ktulu

Originally posted by: shilala

Originally posted by: Ktulu

Originally posted by: meltdown75

Originally posted by: JLGatsby
If you work in a factory, you sure as hell do not deserve $26 per hour.

$26 an hour, is about $54,000 a year. Most of those people probably only have high school diplomas, some of them not even that. I find that to be insulting.

This is America, land of opportunity, the wealtheist nation that ever existed, and people want to work in a factory.

similarly, $12.50 an hour seems insulting to me.

also, believe it or not, some of these workers' first choice might not have been factory work. not everyone gets what they want out of a job / career.

...and to remain consistent with my postings in other union news articles: P&N.

How is $12.50 an hour insulting, what's insulting is all the college graduates who go out and are barely able to make that. $12.50 is a perfect base wage anything higher than that would be an insult to those of us who took the time to go to school and make something of ourselves.

Sheee-it.
I wasn't aware that those $26.00 factory jobs weren't available to college graduates.
I'm insulted that someone who goes to college thinks they are worth more than $26.00.
I'm insulted that people choose to go to college because a factory job is beneath them.

I think $12.50 is a perfect base wage for anyone who chooses to wiggle out of contributing to the productive work force by going to college for 4 to 6 years while I had to bust my ass scrubbing toliets and digging holes.

I suppose creating commerce, creating products, and doing a hard day's work to pay to put food on the table and put your children through college isn't nearly as meaningful as going to college and "making something of yourself".

[/Devil's Advocate]

Thank you for playing devil's advocate.

I'm not trying to say that the work these people do isn't important, but why do they believe they are worth more than the rest of the workforce. I'm sure alot of people here would LOVE to make the kind of money they were making and enjoy the same benefits, but sadly they don't. You get paid what you're worth and that's the way it should be. I don't make the rules.

You're right. The folks at Delphi are being paid what they are worth, and that's the way it should be.

This bullshit of "I went to college and I don't make that much so they shouldn't" is about the most childish self-centered crap I've ever heard.
It's about the 1,000th time I've seen it expressed in one of these threads.
You'd think it would have been covered by second grade with the "Fox and the Grapes" story, but it appears a good many of the gentlemen here must have been sick that day.

Because a person is formally educated, it does not entitle them to anything.
It sure as hell doesn't make their labor any more valid, and it certainly doesn't make them better than those people at Delphi.
Those people have busted their asses to build that company. They've given their lives, health, time and labor.
They certainly deserve better than to have their wages cut so that the executives can get richer.

I agree with you here, it's absurd to offer a paycuts and turn around and give yourself bonuses.

I guess an employee's worth is a matter of opinion. So i'll let the market handle what should be considered a fair wage and leave it at that, as should the unions.

There are millions of other people doing very similar jobs to what the Delphi employees do with out being offered such a handsome wage and benefits, do you consider this fair?

A Union is a group of people who bargain for their wage.
They band together at the risk of losing their livelihood in order to command a fair wage through collective bargaining.
The wages that union employees command are what DRIVES what the market sets as a fair wage.
"If the UAW worker's can fetch $26.00 an hour for this job, we wish to also be fairly compensated for our work" sort of thing.
Prevailing wages are also set by calculating the highest wages in the area. Those are generally Union worker's wages.

Yes, I think it's very fair. So do the Union employers until their management has driven them into the ground. (I'll concede that comment, because it's just the asshole in me coming out. I'm full aware that it's a multi-part process that causes a company to get into financial difficulty, and that the blame rests on both sides.)

So far as "There are millions of other people doing very similar jobs to what the Delphi employees do with out being offered such a handsome wage and benefits, do you consider this fair?"
No, I don't.
There are people being paid a bowl of rice for doing similar jobs.
I don't think that's right, either.

And if delphi continues to pay them what UAW thinks they are worth, delphi will so no longer exist. 35,000 jobs gone, this is reality.

 

[Sureshot324]

Originally posted by: shilala

Originally posted by: Ktulu

Originally posted by: shilala

Originally posted by: Ktulu

Originally posted by: meltdown75

Originally posted by: JLGatsby
If you work in a factory, you sure as hell do not deserve $26 per hour.

$26 an hour, is about $54,000 a year. Most of those people probably only have high school diplomas, some of them not even that. I find that to be insulting.

This is America, land of opportunity, the wealtheist nation that ever existed, and people want to work in a factory.

similarly, $12.50 an hour seems insulting to me.

also, believe it or not, some of these workers' first choice might not have been factory work. not everyone gets what they want out of a job / career.

...and to remain consistent with my postings in other union news articles: P&N.

How is $12.50 an hour insulting, what's insulting is all the college graduates who go out and are barely able to make that. $12.50 is a perfect base wage anything higher than that would be an insult to those of us who took the time to go to school and make something of ourselves.

Sheee-it.
I wasn't aware that those $26.00 factory jobs weren't available to college graduates.
I'm insulted that someone who goes to college thinks they are worth more than $26.00.
I'm insulted that people choose to go to college because a factory job is beneath them.

I think $12.50 is a perfect base wage for anyone who chooses to wiggle out of contributing to the productive work force by going to college for 4 to 6 years while I had to bust my ass scrubbing toliets and digging holes.

I suppose creating commerce, creating products, and doing a hard day's work to pay to put food on the table and put your children through college isn't nearly as meaningful as going to college and "making something of yourself".

[/Devil's Advocate]

Thank you for playing devil's advocate.

I'm not trying to say that the work these people do isn't important, but why do they believe they are worth more than the rest of the workforce. I'm sure alot of people here would LOVE to make the kind of money they were making and enjoy the same benefits, but sadly they don't. You get paid what you're worth and that's the way it should be. I don't make the rules.

You're right. The folks at Delphi are being paid what they are worth, and that's the way it should be.

This bullshit of "I went to college and I don't make that much so they shouldn't" is about the most childish self-centered crap I've ever heard.
It's about the 1,000th time I've seen it expressed in one of these threads.
You'd think it would have been covered by second grade with the "Fox and the Grapes" story, but it appears a good many of the gentlemen here must have been sick that day.

Because a person is formally educated, it does not entitle them to anything.
It sure as hell doesn't make their labor any more valid, and it certainly doesn't make them better than those people at Delphi.
Those people have busted their asses to build that company. They've given their lives, health, time and labor.
They certainly deserve better than to have their wages cut so that the executives can get richer.

The auto worker's salaries are rediculously high and it's nothing to do with the fact that they don't have college diplomas. It's because the unions have made the prices artificially high. When the union threatens to strike, the company has no choice to give in because it would be too difficult to replace the entire workforce.

If there was no union, these workers would only be making $12-$13/hour, because there are plenty of people capable of that job willing to do it for that wage. That is the wage the market dictates, and that is what they should be paid. If you overpay your workers, your competitors will be able to make the same product for less money, and you won't be able to compete.

 

[shilala]

Originally posted by: Sureshot324

Originally posted by: shilala

Originally posted by: Ktulu

Originally posted by: shilala

Originally posted by: Ktulu

Originally posted by: meltdown75

Originally posted by: JLGatsby
If you work in a factory, you sure as hell do not deserve $26 per hour.

$26 an hour, is about $54,000 a year. Most of those people probably only have high school diplomas, some of them not even that. I find that to be insulting.

This is America, land of opportunity, the wealtheist nation that ever existed, and people want to work in a factory.

similarly, $12.50 an hour seems insulting to me.

also, believe it or not, some of these workers' first choice might not have been factory work. not everyone gets what they want out of a job / career.

...and to remain consistent with my postings in other union news articles: P&N.

How is $12.50 an hour insulting, what's insulting is all the college graduates who go out and are barely able to make that. $12.50 is a perfect base wage anything higher than that would be an insult to those of us who took the time to go to school and make something of ourselves.

Sheee-it.
I wasn't aware that those $26.00 factory jobs weren't available to college graduates.
I'm insulted that someone who goes to college thinks they are worth more than $26.00.
I'm insulted that people choose to go to college because a factory job is beneath them.

I think $12.50 is a perfect base wage for anyone who chooses to wiggle out of contributing to the productive work force by going to college for 4 to 6 years while I had to bust my ass scrubbing toliets and digging holes.

I suppose creating commerce, creating products, and doing a hard day's work to pay to put food on the table and put your children through college isn't nearly as meaningful as going to college and "making something of yourself".

[/Devil's Advocate]

Thank you for playing devil's advocate.

I'm not trying to say that the work these people do isn't important, but why do they believe they are worth more than the rest of the workforce. I'm sure alot of people here would LOVE to make the kind of money they were making and enjoy the same benefits, but sadly they don't. You get paid what you're worth and that's the way it should be. I don't make the rules.

You're right. The folks at Delphi are being paid what they are worth, and that's the way it should be.

This bullshit of "I went to college and I don't make that much so they shouldn't" is about the most childish self-centered crap I've ever heard.
It's about the 1,000th time I've seen it expressed in one of these threads.
You'd think it would have been covered by second grade with the "Fox and the Grapes" story, but it appears a good many of the gentlemen here must have been sick that day.

Because a person is formally educated, it does not entitle them to anything.
It sure as hell doesn't make their labor any more valid, and it certainly doesn't make them better than those people at Delphi.
Those people have busted their asses to build that company. They've given their lives, health, time and labor.
They certainly deserve better than to have their wages cut so that the executives can get richer.

The auto worker's salaries are rediculously high and it's nothing to do with the fact that they don't have college diplomas. It's because the unions have made the prices artificially high. When the union threatens to strike, the company has no choice to give in because it would be too difficult to replace the entire workforce.

If there was no union, these workers would only be making $12-$13/hour, because there are plenty of people capable of that job willing to do it for that wage. That is the wage the market dictates, and that is what they should be paid. If you overpay your workers, your competitors will be able to make the same product for less money, and you won't be able to compete.

You're obviously a business major, right?

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: shilala

Originally posted by: Sureshot324

Originally posted by: shilala

Originally posted by: Ktulu

Originally posted by: shilala

Originally posted by: Ktulu

Originally posted by: meltdown75

Originally posted by: JLGatsby
If you work in a factory, you sure as hell do not deserve $26 per hour.

$26 an hour, is about $54,000 a year. Most of those people probably only have high school diplomas, some of them not even that. I find that to be insulting.

This is America, land of opportunity, the wealtheist nation that ever existed, and people want to work in a factory.

similarly, $12.50 an hour seems insulting to me.

also, believe it or not, some of these workers' first choice might not have been factory work. not everyone gets what they want out of a job / career.

...and to remain consistent with my postings in other union news articles: P&N.

How is $12.50 an hour insulting, what's insulting is all the college graduates who go out and are barely able to make that. $12.50 is a perfect base wage anything higher than that would be an insult to those of us who took the time to go to school and make something of ourselves.

Sheee-it.
I wasn't aware that those $26.00 factory jobs weren't available to college graduates.
I'm insulted that someone who goes to college thinks they are worth more than $26.00.
I'm insulted that people choose to go to college because a factory job is beneath them.

I think $12.50 is a perfect base wage for anyone who chooses to wiggle out of contributing to the productive work force by going to college for 4 to 6 years while I had to bust my ass scrubbing toliets and digging holes.

I suppose creating commerce, creating products, and doing a hard day's work to pay to put food on the table and put your children through college isn't nearly as meaningful as going to college and "making something of yourself".

[/Devil's Advocate]

Thank you for playing devil's advocate.

I'm not trying to say that the work these people do isn't important, but why do they believe they are worth more than the rest of the workforce. I'm sure alot of people here would LOVE to make the kind of money they were making and enjoy the same benefits, but sadly they don't. You get paid what you're worth and that's the way it should be. I don't make the rules.

You're right. The folks at Delphi are being paid what they are worth, and that's the way it should be.

This bullshit of "I went to college and I don't make that much so they shouldn't" is about the most childish self-centered crap I've ever heard.
It's about the 1,000th time I've seen it expressed in one of these threads.
You'd think it would have been covered by second grade with the "Fox and the Grapes" story, but it appears a good many of the gentlemen here must have been sick that day.

Because a person is formally educated, it does not entitle them to anything.
It sure as hell doesn't make their labor any more valid, and it certainly doesn't make them better than those people at Delphi.
Those people have busted their asses to build that company. They've given their lives, health, time and labor.
They certainly deserve better than to have their wages cut so that the executives can get richer.

The auto worker's salaries are rediculously high and it's nothing to do with the fact that they don't have college diplomas. It's because the unions have made the prices artificially high. When the union threatens to strike, the company has no choice to give in because it would be too difficult to replace the entire workforce.

If there was no union, these workers would only be making $12-$13/hour, because there are plenty of people capable of that job willing to do it for that wage. That is the wage the market dictates, and that is what they should be paid. If you overpay your workers, your competitors will be able to make the same product for less money, and you won't be able to compete.

You're obviously a business major, right?

It sounds like common sense to me. Regardless of what major he is, it is simply reality.

 

[Eli]

Apparently 0$/hr is better than $12.50.

 

[shilala]

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: shilala

Originally posted by: Sureshot324

Originally posted by: shilala

Originally posted by: Ktulu

Originally posted by: shilala

Originally posted by: Ktulu

Originally posted by: meltdown75

Originally posted by: JLGatsby
If you work in a factory, you sure as hell do not deserve $26 per hour.

$26 an hour, is about $54,000 a year. Most of those people probably only have high school diplomas, some of them not even that. I find that to be insulting.

This is America, land of opportunity, the wealtheist nation that ever existed, and people want to work in a factory.

similarly, $12.50 an hour seems insulting to me.

also, believe it or not, some of these workers' first choice might not have been factory work. not everyone gets what they want out of a job / career.

...and to remain consistent with my postings in other union news articles: P&N.

How is $12.50 an hour insulting, what's insulting is all the college graduates who go out and are barely able to make that. $12.50 is a perfect base wage anything higher than that would be an insult to those of us who took the time to go to school and make something of ourselves.

Sheee-it.
I wasn't aware that those $26.00 factory jobs weren't available to college graduates.
I'm insulted that someone who goes to college thinks they are worth more than $26.00.
I'm insulted that people choose to go to college because a factory job is beneath them.

I think $12.50 is a perfect base wage for anyone who chooses to wiggle out of contributing to the productive work force by going to college for 4 to 6 years while I had to bust my ass scrubbing toliets and digging holes.

I suppose creating commerce, creating products, and doing a hard day's work to pay to put food on the table and put your children through college isn't nearly as meaningful as going to college and "making something of yourself".

[/Devil's Advocate]

Thank you for playing devil's advocate.

I'm not trying to say that the work these people do isn't important, but why do they believe they are worth more than the rest of the workforce. I'm sure alot of people here would LOVE to make the kind of money they were making and enjoy the same benefits, but sadly they don't. You get paid what you're worth and that's the way it should be. I don't make the rules.

You're right. The folks at Delphi are being paid what they are worth, and that's the way it should be.

This bullshit of "I went to college and I don't make that much so they shouldn't" is about the most childish self-centered crap I've ever heard.
It's about the 1,000th time I've seen it expressed in one of these threads.
You'd think it would have been covered by second grade with the "Fox and the Grapes" story, but it appears a good many of the gentlemen here must have been sick that day.

Because a person is formally educated, it does not entitle them to anything.
It sure as hell doesn't make their labor any more valid, and it certainly doesn't make them better than those people at Delphi.
Those people have busted their asses to build that company. They've given their lives, health, time and labor.
They certainly deserve better than to have their wages cut so that the executives can get richer.

The auto worker's salaries are rediculously high and it's nothing to do with the fact that they don't have college diplomas. It's because the unions have made the prices artificially high. When the union threatens to strike, the company has no choice to give in because it would be too difficult to replace the entire workforce.

If there was no union, these workers would only be making $12-$13/hour, because there are plenty of people capable of that job willing to do it for that wage. That is the wage the market dictates, and that is what they should be paid. If you overpay your workers, your competitors will be able to make the same product for less money, and you won't be able to compete.

You're obviously a business major, right?

It sounds like common sense to me. Regardless of what major he is, it is simply reality.

Same classes, eh???

 

[Sureshot324]

Originally posted by: shilala

Originally posted by: Sureshot324

Originally posted by: shilala

Originally posted by: Ktulu

Originally posted by: shilala

Originally posted by: Ktulu

Originally posted by: meltdown75

Originally posted by: JLGatsby
If you work in a factory, you sure as hell do not deserve $26 per hour.

$26 an hour, is about $54,000 a year. Most of those people probably only have high school diplomas, some of them not even that. I find that to be insulting.

This is America, land of opportunity, the wealtheist nation that ever existed, and people want to work in a factory.

similarly, $12.50 an hour seems insulting to me.

also, believe it or not, some of these workers' first choice might not have been factory work. not everyone gets what they want out of a job / career.

...and to remain consistent with my postings in other union news articles: P&N.

How is $12.50 an hour insulting, what's insulting is all the college graduates who go out and are barely able to make that. $12.50 is a perfect base wage anything higher than that would be an insult to those of us who took the time to go to school and make something of ourselves.

Sheee-it.
I wasn't aware that those $26.00 factory jobs weren't available to college graduates.
I'm insulted that someone who goes to college thinks they are worth more than $26.00.
I'm insulted that people choose to go to college because a factory job is beneath them.

I think $12.50 is a perfect base wage for anyone who chooses to wiggle out of contributing to the productive work force by going to college for 4 to 6 years while I had to bust my ass scrubbing toliets and digging holes.

I suppose creating commerce, creating products, and doing a hard day's work to pay to put food on the table and put your children through college isn't nearly as meaningful as going to college and "making something of yourself".

[/Devil's Advocate]

Thank you for playing devil's advocate.

I'm not trying to say that the work these people do isn't important, but why do they believe they are worth more than the rest of the workforce. I'm sure alot of people here would LOVE to make the kind of money they were making and enjoy the same benefits, but sadly they don't. You get paid what you're worth and that's the way it should be. I don't make the rules.

You're right. The folks at Delphi are being paid what they are worth, and that's the way it should be.

This bullshit of "I went to college and I don't make that much so they shouldn't" is about the most childish self-centered crap I've ever heard.
It's about the 1,000th time I've seen it expressed in one of these threads.
You'd think it would have been covered by second grade with the "Fox and the Grapes" story, but it appears a good many of the gentlemen here must have been sick that day.

Because a person is formally educated, it does not entitle them to anything.
It sure as hell doesn't make their labor any more valid, and it certainly doesn't make them better than those people at Delphi.
Those people have busted their asses to build that company. They've given their lives, health, time and labor.
They certainly deserve better than to have their wages cut so that the executives can get richer.

The auto worker's salaries are rediculously high and it's nothing to do with the fact that they don't have college diplomas. It's because the unions have made the prices artificially high. When the union threatens to strike, the company has no choice to give in because it would be too difficult to replace the entire workforce.

If there was no union, these workers would only be making $12-$13/hour, because there are plenty of people capable of that job willing to do it for that wage. That is the wage the market dictates, and that is what they should be paid. If you overpay your workers, your competitors will be able to make the same product for less money, and you won't be able to compete.

You're obviously a business major, right?

Comp Sci major actually. Care to address what i actually said in my post?

 

[shilala]

Originally posted by: Sureshot324

Originally posted by: shilala

Originally posted by: Sureshot324

Originally posted by: shilala

Originally posted by: Ktulu

Originally posted by: shilala

Originally posted by: Ktulu

Originally posted by: meltdown75

Originally posted by: JLGatsby
If you work in a factory, you sure as hell do not deserve $26 per hour.

$26 an hour, is about $54,000 a year. Most of those people probably only have high school diplomas, some of them not even that. I find that to be insulting.

This is America, land of opportunity, the wealtheist nation that ever existed, and people want to work in a factory.

similarly, $12.50 an hour seems insulting to me.

also, believe it or not, some of these workers' first choice might not have been factory work. not everyone gets what they want out of a job / career.

...and to remain consistent with my postings in other union news articles: P&N.

How is $12.50 an hour insulting, what's insulting is all the college graduates who go out and are barely able to make that. $12.50 is a perfect base wage anything higher than that would be an insult to those of us who took the time to go to school and make something of ourselves.

Sheee-it.
I wasn't aware that those $26.00 factory jobs weren't available to college graduates.
I'm insulted that someone who goes to college thinks they are worth more than $26.00.
I'm insulted that people choose to go to college because a factory job is beneath them.

I think $12.50 is a perfect base wage for anyone who chooses to wiggle out of contributing to the productive work force by going to college for 4 to 6 years while I had to bust my ass scrubbing toliets and digging holes.

I suppose creating commerce, creating products, and doing a hard day's work to pay to put food on the table and put your children through college isn't nearly as meaningful as going to college and "making something of yourself".

[/Devil's Advocate]

Thank you for playing devil's advocate.

I'm not trying to say that the work these people do isn't important, but why do they believe they are worth more than the rest of the workforce. I'm sure alot of people here would LOVE to make the kind of money they were making and enjoy the same benefits, but sadly they don't. You get paid what you're worth and that's the way it should be. I don't make the rules.

You're right. The folks at Delphi are being paid what they are worth, and that's the way it should be.

This bullshit of "I went to college and I don't make that much so they shouldn't" is about the most childish self-centered crap I've ever heard.
It's about the 1,000th time I've seen it expressed in one of these threads.
You'd think it would have been covered by second grade with the "Fox and the Grapes" story, but it appears a good many of the gentlemen here must have been sick that day.

Because a person is formally educated, it does not entitle them to anything.
It sure as hell doesn't make their labor any more valid, and it certainly doesn't make them better than those people at Delphi.
Those people have busted their asses to build that company. They've given their lives, health, time and labor.
They certainly deserve better than to have their wages cut so that the executives can get richer.

The auto worker's salaries are rediculously high and it's nothing to do with the fact that they don't have college diplomas. It's because the unions have made the prices artificially high. When the union threatens to strike, the company has no choice to give in because it would be too difficult to replace the entire workforce.

If there was no union, these workers would only be making $12-$13/hour, because there are plenty of people capable of that job willing to do it for that wage. That is the wage the market dictates, and that is what they should be paid. If you overpay your workers, your competitors will be able to make the same product for less money, and you won't be able to compete.

You're obviously a business major, right?

Comp Sci major actually. Care to address what i actually said in my post?

I really would love to, but I don't have the time.
I can ask "Why are people making so much more for doing that job if the market dictates it's a $12-13 an hour job?"

 

[Squisher]

This situation spells such doom for the rust belt.

Does anybody not think that GM didn't know what kind of doom was in Dephi's future when they split it off? Well, if Dephi goes on strike it'll shut down GM. GM could go into bankruptcy within a couple of months and if GM goes belly up it could kill Michigan.

 

[Squisher]

Originally posted by: shilala

Originally posted by: Sureshot324

Originally posted by: shilala

Originally posted by: Sureshot324

Originally posted by: shilala

Originally posted by: Ktulu

Originally posted by: shilala

Originally posted by: Ktulu

Originally posted by: meltdown75

Originally posted by: JLGatsby
If you work in a factory, you sure as hell do not deserve $26 per hour.

$26 an hour, is about $54,000 a year. Most of those people probably only have high school diplomas, some of them not even that. I find that to be insulting.

This is America, land of opportunity, the wealtheist nation that ever existed, and people want to work in a factory.

similarly, $12.50 an hour seems insulting to me.

also, believe it or not, some of these workers' first choice might not have been factory work. not everyone gets what they want out of a job / career.

...and to remain consistent with my postings in other union news articles: P&N.

How is $12.50 an hour insulting, what's insulting is all the college graduates who go out and are barely able to make that. $12.50 is a perfect base wage anything higher than that would be an insult to those of us who took the time to go to school and make something of ourselves.

Sheee-it.
I wasn't aware that those $26.00 factory jobs weren't available to college graduates.
I'm insulted that someone who goes to college thinks they are worth more than $26.00.
I'm insulted that people choose to go to college because a factory job is beneath them.

I think $12.50 is a perfect base wage for anyone who chooses to wiggle out of contributing to the productive work force by going to college for 4 to 6 years while I had to bust my ass scrubbing toliets and digging holes.

I suppose creating commerce, creating products, and doing a hard day's work to pay to put food on the table and put your children through college isn't nearly as meaningful as going to college and "making something of yourself".

[/Devil's Advocate]

Thank you for playing devil's advocate.

I'm not trying to say that the work these people do isn't important, but why do they believe they are worth more than the rest of the workforce. I'm sure alot of people here would LOVE to make the kind of money they were making and enjoy the same benefits, but sadly they don't. You get paid what you're worth and that's the way it should be. I don't make the rules.

You're right. The folks at Delphi are being paid what they are worth, and that's the way it should be.

This bullshit of "I went to college and I don't make that much so they shouldn't" is about the most childish self-centered crap I've ever heard.
It's about the 1,000th time I've seen it expressed in one of these threads.
You'd think it would have been covered by second grade with the "Fox and the Grapes" story, but it appears a good many of the gentlemen here must have been sick that day.

Because a person is formally educated, it does not entitle them to anything.
It sure as hell doesn't make their labor any more valid, and it certainly doesn't make them better than those people at Delphi.
Those people have busted their asses to build that company. They've given their lives, health, time and labor.
They certainly deserve better than to have their wages cut so that the executives can get richer.

The auto worker's salaries are rediculously high and it's nothing to do with the fact that they don't have college diplomas. It's because the unions have made the prices artificially high. When the union threatens to strike, the company has no choice to give in because it would be too difficult to replace the entire workforce.

If there was no union, these workers would only be making $12-$13/hour, because there are plenty of people capable of that job willing to do it for that wage. That is the wage the market dictates, and that is what they should be paid. If you overpay your workers, your competitors will be able to make the same product for less money, and you won't be able to compete.

You're obviously a business major, right?

Comp Sci major actually. Care to address what i actually said in my post?

I really would love to, but I don't have the time.
I can ask "Why are people making so much more for doing that job if the market dictates it's a $12-13 an hour job?"

A lot of parts plants which comprise Delphi have many jobs that require years before you learn them fully. $12-13 is not going to retain someone you've put years into train.

People see production lines and think that's all there is.

 

[Ornery]

"Why are people making so much more for doing that job if the market dictates it's a $12-13 an hour job?"

It's called EXTORTION courtesy of the UAW!

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: Sureshot324
The auto worker's salaries are rediculously high and it's nothing to do with the fact that they don't have college diplomas. It's because the unions have made the prices artificially high. When the union threatens to strike, the company has no choice to give in because it would be too difficult to replace the entire workforce.

If there was no union, these workers would only be making $12-$13/hour, because there are plenty of people capable of that job willing to do it for that wage. That is the wage the market dictates, and that is what they should be paid. If you overpay your workers, your competitors will be able to make the same product for less money, and you won't be able to compete.

Then why do other non-union shops pay the same wage?

Kinda blows your "should only be making 12-13/hr" point out of the water doesn't it?

American auto workers are NOT overpaid. That's what they are paid union or not, american company or not.