Deeko's powerlifting thread

[Koing]

Whats wrong with your back?

Koing

 

[Deeko]

Whats wrong with your back?

Koing

Not entirely sure. I got over the sciatica I had last year. Starting ~4-5 months ago, I started having a dull pain in the lower right side (opposite of the sciatica side) that intensifies when I do any exercise involving the lower back - so naturally squats & deadlifts. When I'm not lifting, I get the pain when I'm sitting, but rarely when I'm standing. It comes and goes...some weeks I feel nothing, some weeks its pretty bad.

 

[Deeko]

2010.07.19
Ran 2.31 miles - 18:06 (http://sportypal.com/Workouts/Details/480748?key=8945ab37babe61be5062cdc6ccdfbd51cbb909b0&ms=1)

2010.07.20
Ran 3.01 miles - 24:53 (http://sportypal.com/Workouts/Details/484082?key=f7e9c00132f39c74b21c4b929d22aedbd9579338&ms=1)

2010.07.21
Ran 3.33 miles - 26:55 (http://sportypal.com/Workouts/Details/487070?key=638a679ac7d5f3927c3203c2f039120ca8526c95&ms=1)

2010.07.23
Ran 2.48 miles - 20:34 (http://sportypal.com/Workouts/Details/492458?key=b3ab236cdfc742cefcaeed75a8905a876348f137&ms=1)

Was on vacation last week with nothing better to do other than run on the boardwalk. The good news is I'm starting to get into moderately better cardio shape. The bad news is that living in the cold, dry air of Seattle has ruined my conditioning for east coast weather. Running in humid, 90 degree temps with heat indexes over 100 + hot sun murdered my body.

 

[Deeko]

2010.07.27

Front Squats
95x5
135x5
155x5
175x5
185x5x5

Pullups
BWx5x3

Rows
95x6
135x5
155x5x3

On one hand, I do enjoy doing squats that don't feel like a knife is being inserted into my back. On the other hand, doing work sets of 185 is ridiculously vaginal.

 

[VulgarDisplay]

Crying like a baby because you overdid it with your iffy back is more vaginal than working back up to higher weights for the sake of your body.

Either way congrats on some pain free squats.

 

[Deeko]

hrm...thanks?

 

[VulgarDisplay]

lol I'm just experience at ruining my back is all. I've been a carpenter for 8 years now. Not good for your body at all.

 

[Deeko]

2010.07.30

Power Cleans
95x3
135x3
155x3
175x1
165x3
165x2

Bench
135x3
175x3
205x3
225x3x2

Deadlifts
135x3
205x3
245x3x2

Pullups
BWx3
BW+25x3
BW+50x3x3

Very poor day of powercleans. They came off the floor fast, but I had no explosion at all.

For deadlifts...I kept it light, for two reasons. 1) because my back still sucks and 2) because my deadlift has always sucked, so now that I've got no competitions for some time, its a good time to work on some form changes. So that's what I did.

First set of 245 - I went with a wider foot stance than I normally do. I also tried keeping my back straight all the way down on my approach rather than trying to set up while I'm down at the bar. It both felt and looked very awkward. Watching the video, I noticed that I was starting with my hips pretty high, so on the second set I tried lowering them. The result was my hips moved out of sync with the rest of me and it felt heavier, so maybe the high hip approach is better. Also, on both sets, my back wasn't really rounded, but it wasn't really arched either. It was kinda straight.

Anyway, this is the video. If anyone has any comments or suggestions, nows the time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_tSxGHoU04

 

[VulgarDisplay]

On some of them it didn't look like your arms were directly above the bar. Also, when you put it down you're riding the bar on your quads which reduces the work you're doing to control the descent.

 

[brikis98]

First set of 245 - I went with a wider foot stance than I normally do. I also tried keeping my back straight all the way down on my approach rather than trying to set up while I'm down at the bar. It both felt and looked very awkward.

In my experience, this doesn't work well at all. The order that works best for a proper deadlift setup is:

1. Feet: use the stance width you use for a two foot jump. Setup with the bar over the middle of the foot, some ~2" from the shins for most people.
2. Grip: bend at the hips (not the knees) and take hold of the bar
3. Shins: now bend the knees forward until the shins touch the bar
4. Chest: suck in a bunch of air and tighten up the entire back into an arch by "lifting your chest" (think of doing supermans on the floor)
5. Pull

Here is a good video of Rippetoe teaching the deadlift setup.

Watching the video, I noticed that I was starting with my hips pretty high, so on the second set I tried lowering them. The result was my hips moved out of sync with the rest of me and it felt heavier, so maybe the high hip approach is better.

It's a deadlift, not a squat. The hips should be fairly high. If you start too low, they'll just shoot up anyway, which is exactly what happened on your second set.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_tSxGHoU04

The first rep of the first set was actually decent, although using the setup above may make it even better. However, the problems start after the first rep: you don't lower the bar down correctly (you bend your knees too early), so it ends up too far forward. As a result, your knees come forward more, and as you do the second rep, you are fighting to get the bar around them. The bar is further from your body, your hips shoot up, your back rounds a bit and you are forced to do the whole pull with your hamstrings. I think three things will help:

1. Lowering the bar is done in the exact opposite order of pulling the bar: you push your hips back first and only as the bar is clearing the knees do you start bending them. It should slide down your thighs and shins on the way down just like it does on the way up.

2. Even though the deadlift is called a "pull", it's better to think of it as two pushes. The first push is you driving your heels hard into the ground and the second push, done once the bar is clearing the knees, is to push your hips/ass forward. Most people screw up the first part: they start pulling immediately with the hamstrings, which causes their hips to shoot up, and the knees to unbend, taking the quads out of the picture without the bar having moved an inch.

3. You are craning your neck a lot to look forward. The neck should always be in neutral alignment with the rest of the spine; since the deadlift starts with the torso fairly horizontal, looking straight ahead is not a safe or natural position for the neck. Instead, look a bit more down at a spot on the floor several feet in front of you.

 

[Deeko]

On some of them it didn't look like your arms were directly above the bar. Also, when you put it down you're riding the bar on your quads which reduces the work you're doing to control the descent.

Yea that whole awkawrd descent thing is a side effect of the back injury. Because I'm paranoid of my back rounding, weird things like that happen. I know they're not supposed to.

In my experience, this doesn't work well at all. The order that works best for a proper deadlift setup is:

1. Feet: use the stance width you use for a two foot jump. Setup with the bar over the middle of the foot, some ~2" from the shins for most people.
2. Grip: bend at the hips (not the knees) and take hold of the bar
3. Shins: now bend the knees forward until the shins touch the bar
4. Chest: suck in a bunch of air and tighten up the entire back into an arch by "lifting your chest" (think of doing supermans on the floor)
5. Pull

Here is a good video of Rippetoe teaching the deadlift setup.

What you described is more like my normal setup (with the caveat that I've been lifting in gear so much that the whole breathing thing has to happen at the top, not the bottom). It feels more natural, but I've also felt like I don't get into a good enough arch doing that. As far as feet placement goes...I've always pulled better with a very narrow stance, I'm trying to widen it back out to see if that's still the case or not.

It's a deadlift, not a squat. The hips should be fairly high. If you start too low, they'll just shoot up anyway, which is exactly what happened on your second set.

I'm always stronger with higher hips. I have terrible hamstring flexibility which hampers me at the higher starting point, though. I'm working on that.

The first rep of the first set was actually decent, although using the setup above may make it even better. However, the problems start after the first rep: you don't lower the bar down correctly (you bend your knees too early), so it ends up too far forward. As a result, your knees come forward more, and as you do the second rep, you are fighting to get the bar around them. The bar is further from your body, your hips shoot up, your back rounds a bit and you are forced to do the whole pull with your hamstrings. I think three things will help:

1. Lowering the bar is done in the exact opposite order of pulling the bar: you push your hips back first and only as the bar is clearing the knees do you start bending them. It should slide down your thighs and shins on the way down just like it does on the way up.

2. Even though the deadlift is called a "pull", it's better to think of it as two pushes. The first push is you driving your heels hard into the ground and the second push, done once the bar is clearing the knees, is to push your hips/ass forward. Most people screw up the first part: they start pulling immediately with the hamstrings, which causes their hips to shoot up, and the knees to unbend, taking the quads out of the picture without the bar having moved an inch.

3. You are craning your neck a lot to look forward. The neck should always be in neutral alignment with the rest of the spine; since the deadlift starts with the torso fairly horizontal, looking straight ahead is not a safe or natural position for the neck. Instead, look a bit more down at a spot on the floor several feet in front of you.

My powerlifting coach generally advocates looking straight forward on deadlifts (although in gear he's had me look straight down and then adjust). Perhaps it works for most of his lifters, I don't know.

Anyway, thanks for the advice, I'll make some additional adjustments and try again next week.

 

[brikis98]

I have terrible hamstring flexibility which hampers me at the higher starting point, though. I'm working on that.

Poor flexibility could definitely be contributing to your back pain. Tight hamstrings and glutes pull the pelvis (and consequently the back) into weird positions both during weight lifting and day to day life. Invest some serious time in PNF stretching for your glutes and hamstrings and I bet it'll reduce your back pain in and of itself, as well as help you use better form (especially maintain the back arch) on your lifts.

 

[Deeko]

2010.08.02

Standing Overhead Press
95x5
115x3
135x3
140x3
140x1

Close Grip Bench Press
95x5
135x3
165x5
175x5
185x5

Rope Pushdowns
80x5
100x5
110x5x2

 

[Deeko]

2010.08.03

Front Squats
95x5
135x5
185x1
205x1
225x3xF (failed 3rd rep)
225xF

Overhead Squats
45x5
65x5
85x5
105x3

Good Mornings
95x5x5

Front squats are improving, but not quite where I'd hoped to be today. Overhead squats are awkward.

 

[Deeko]

2010.08.07

Deadlifts
135x5
185x1
225x1x25

Bench
95x5
135x1
175x1
205x1
225x2x3

Chinups
BWx3
BW+25x3
BW+50x1
BW+70x3x3

Tried something new with the deadlifts today. Bench was weaker than I expected.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

One set of 25 or 25 sets of one for the deadlift? Lol, I wish my weak bench included two plates on each side.

 

[Deeko]

25 singles on 1 minute intervals. I actually got the idea from crt's journal - although he was more like 80% 1RM, I was under 60%. But hey...workin back up...

 

[Deeko]

Oh, and if anyone was wondering, I made a few more changes to my deadlift and recorded a couple of the sets yesterday:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06XoETv5-DY

 

[brikis98]

Oh, and if anyone was wondering, I made a few more changes to my deadlift and recorded a couple of the sets yesterday:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06XoETv5-DY

Definitely looking better. Setup looks more natural/comfortable for you and your back stays flatter. It still seems like you start to pull with the hamstrings a bit early, so really try to focus on driving the heels into the ground at the start of the lift so you get maximum engagement from the quads.

 

[Deeko]

2010.08.10

Front Squats
135x5
165x5
185x5x3

Incline Bench
135x5
155x5x3

Cable Rows
120x5
140x5
160x5

Hammer Curls
35x5
40x3
35x5

Dragged my girlfriend to the gym tonight (which meant we had to go to her crappy 24 hr fitness, gross). Let me tell you, trying to teach someone how to squat that insists she can't go to parallel without any weight at all is annoying.

 

[Deeko]

2010.08.12

Bench
135x3
175x1
195x1
225x3x3

Power Clean
95x3
115x1
135x2
155x2
175xF

Bench felt better than it did last week. Power cleans started off good - the 155 was pretty easy, thought I'd nail the 175. No dice though.

 

[Deeko]

2010.08.18

Front Squat
95x5
135x3
175x1
205x3x3

Seated Dumbbell Press
50x5
55x5x3

Hammer Curl
35x5
37.5x5
40x5

(I had a deadlift/pullup workout on Saturday 8/14 that I failed to post)

 

[Deeko]

2010.08.21

Deadlift
135x5
185x3
225x1
235x1x10

Chinups
BWx3
BW+25x3
BW+50x3
BW+70x3x3

Overhead Press
95x3
135x3x3

I was supposed to lift both yesterday and today. Mazda decided that a 30 minute appointment should really take three hours. Hence...only two workouts this week. Displeased.

 

[Deeko]

2010.08.23

Bench Press
135x3
175x1
205x1 (paused)
225x1 (paused)
235x1x3 (paused)

Seated dumbbell press
55x5
65x3x3

Rope pushdowns
90x5
110x5
120x5x3

 

[Deeko]

2010.08.25

Front Squat
135x3
175x1
205x3
215x3
225x3

Good Mornings
45x10
95x6
115x5

Farmers Walk (roughly 100' each way)
135
185
205
235
235

Back has felt good the last two squat workouts. Next week I'm going to try switching to back squats (albeit light). See how it goes.