Debunking the myth, BMWs maintenance are expensive.

[KIAman]

BMW's are expensive to maintain because of parts cost assuming I do all labor myself. I'm just glad I got the 100k mile maintenance plan for my 330i. Covers everything except the tires.

Set of 4 OEM tires = $1,286 at tirerack. Ouch. My next set will be non-rfts.

Set of 4 OEM tires for civic = $360 rack, mount, install.

 

[SSSnail]

Just a question, how many miles did your bmw have on it? 4 years time-wise I wouldn't expect issues with the cooling system.

As of yesterday, it has precisely 74,246 miles; yes I drive a lot. And, the only thing that went wrong with it was the cracked hose.

To be fair, I maintain it better than the recommended service interval. Thinks like oil are changed out at 7500, transmission fluid changed at 60K, new set of plugs at 60K, changed out VANOS O-rings at 64K, belts also changed at 60K (I think the two belts cost me $40)... I'm gonna change out the diff oil when I get the car back. Like I said, the only thing that went wrong with it was the lower radiator hose. Lucky me huh? My cousin has a 325, same story, and his does not have anywhere near the level of care that I put into my car, and runs fine without problems.

You know something that these cars have in common? They're taken care of.

I'm an enthusiast, I take care of my car.

Dr. Nick, for the prices that your friend got quoted for, he should have gotten the upgraded all metal components.

For my truck:
Thermostat: $20
Thermostat gasket: $2
Water pump: $52
Water pump gasket: $11
Lower hose: $9
Upper hose: $11
Heater hoses: $28 ($14/ea)
Fan electric fan controller: $25
Radiator cap: $4
Housing: $25

$176, $163 if the gaskets are included with the housing and pump. So yeah, I'd still call $315 on the expensive side

I don't see an expansion tank. Which truck? What year?

 

[Knavish]

As of yesterday, it has precisely 74,246 miles; yes I drive a lot. And, the only thing that went wrong with it was the cracked hose.

To be fair, I maintain it better than the recommended service interval. Thinks like oil are changed out at 7500, transmission fluid changed at 60K, new set of plugs at 60K, changed out VANOS O-rings at 64K, belts also changed at 60K (I think the two belts cost me $40)... I'm gonna change out the diff oil when I get the car back. Like I said, the only thing that went wrong with it was the lower radiator hose. Lucky me huh? My cousin has a 325, same story, and his does not have anywhere near the level of care that I put into my car, and runs fine without problems.

You know something that these cars have in common? They're taken care of.

I'm an enthusiast, I take care of my car.

Dr. Nick, for the prices that your friend got quoted for, he should have gotten the upgraded all metal components.


I don't see an expansion tank. Which truck? What year?

Would you expect a plastic expansion tank to degrade in less than 15 yrs? I don't think they're making them out of that biodegradable corn-based plastic substitute yet.

 

[SSSnail]

Would you expect a plastic expansion tank to degrade in less than 15 yrs? I don't think they're making them out of that biodegradable corn-based plastic substitute yet.

I don't expect it, but I have a wild conspiracy about it; I think they're engineered to fail.

 

[Pacfanweb]

So $315 and an afternoon would give me a brand new cooling system for a 4 yrs old 330Ci - the only thing that went wrong with it so far (pretty impressive considering how many people are harping on how atrocious BMWs are).

I think needing a hose for a 4 year old car, or even considering replacing all the other hoses is not too impressive.

I'd hate to know I needed all my hoses replaced that quickly. Hell, I have a 12 year old Tahoe and a 6 year old Suburban, both with well over 100k and they have all the original hoses. I'd also hate to know I had to spend that much for all the hoses if I DID need to replace them.

Yes, BMW's are more expensive to maintain. Period, end of story. Not a myth. Even if you do the labor yourself (most people cannot), the parts are still expensive.

 

[Demon-Xanth]

I don't see an expansion tank. Which truck? What year?

2002 Dodge Dakota. Hit 100,000 miles back in August. Only thing I've done to the cooling system was to replace the fluid at 100,000 miles as maintenance. All the hoses are still where the guy in Warren put them eight and a half years ago.

 

[SSSnail]

I think needing a hose for a 4 year old car, or even considering replacing all the other hoses is not too impressive.

I'd hate to know I needed all my hoses replaced that quickly. Hell, I have a 12 year old Tahoe and a 6 year old Suburban, both with well over 100k and they have all the original hoses. I'd also hate to know I had to spend that much for all the hoses if I DID need to replace them.

Yes, BMW's are more expensive to maintain. Period, end of story. Not a myth. Even if you do the labor yourself (most people cannot), the parts are still expensive.

Well, just to replace that hose myself it would cost $27.70 in parts and 15 minutes of my time. The cost I gave you was to overhaul my entire cooling system minus the radiator. And $315 is not just for hoses, read the OP again.

I'm not saying that a hose going out at ~75K miles is acceptable, but it's not outrageous, considering that's the ONLY thing that went wrong in those ~75K miles.

 

[halik]

No one paid me to do this, just throwing it out there for you DIYers.

Often people will tell you that maintaining a BMW is expensive, which is in part true, but it's not as expensive as some people would lead you to believe.

If you do everything at the dealer, then regardless of your vehicle, it will be expensive. Now that is out of the way, and since this is ATOT garage, I trust that most of us know how to turn a wrench, right?

Recently, my car has a booboo, coolant leak. It turns out to be a lower radiator hose that needs to be replaced and along with it a sensor. But before I brought it to the dealer, I thought about overhauling my cooling system as well (I'm a big preventative guy). Which brings me to the point of this post, I priced out the entire cooling system components, minus the radiator and it comes out to a whopping $315 (you read that right). That includes upper and lower radiator hoses, sensor, thermostat and housing, water pump, expansion tank and accessories. So $315 and an afternoon would give me a brand new cooling system for a 4 yrs old 330Ci - the only thing that went wrong with it so far (pretty impressive considering how many people are harping on how atrocious BMWs are). But the dealer will fix all that crap plus a few other things concerning TSB and stuffs so they can have it for a day.

Just for shits and giggles, I asked an acquaintance that runs the shop at Pacific Audis how much that would cost me in part and he laughed. The horror stories he told me regarding maintenance on an Audi would turn me away forever. But let's get back to the main point of this story is that, maintaining a BMW is not expensive, if you're not a complete moron. Oh, and Audis suck.

My daily driver is a biturbo Audi with 135K miles...

The only thing that has crapped out unexpectedly in the last 30K miles was the clockspring on the steering column.

As far as maintenance goes, I've replaced upper control arms, 2 cv boots, 1 cv joint, 2 secondary air vales, valve cover gaskets and resealed the oil pan. Probably in the neighborhood of $400 in parts.

 

[JulesMaximus]

You ever replace a transmission in a BMW? How about a power steering pump? And if you need to replace a DSG gearbox out of warranty you might as well just sell the whole car for scrap metal.

 

[RichUK]

My N/S front brake calliper seized, which meant the pads were always rubbing on the N/S front disk causing the steering wheel to judder.

BMW dealership recommended replacing both front callipers plus new brake fluid = a lot of money…

Friend, BMW Technician, replaced the dust seals around the pistons and bled the brakes all for £70 – job done!

2004 M3

I was quite happy with that result...

 

[hiromizu]

: )

Yes they are a bit more expensive but they are certainly not out of reach unless you are poor.

 

[SSSnail]

You ever replace a transmission in a BMW? How about a power steering pump? And if you need to replace a DSG gearbox out of warranty you might as well just sell the whole car for scrap metal.

Why would you replace a transmission? Most of the failures are due to the no reverse issues. In my car particularly, if it ever fails it's just a solenoid that I can easily replace, and I drive my car like it's meant to be driven. Power steering pump, most of the failures are due to people neglected to change the fluid in it, which I have right around the time I changed the transmission fluid.

You're talking about catastrophic failures, which could happen on any cars. I'm just saying that maintenance is not expensive, relative to the driving experience and price compare to just about everything else.

 

[Zenmervolt]

It's not only the parts, due to the engineering behind them (and like Porsches) as well sometimes a 2 hour job on a chevy is like 4-5 on the german car.

I know the 944 Turbo has an insane time for a clutch replacement.

Jalopnik on a Jaguar V12 E-type clutch replacement:

Long story short: I once helped a friend do a clutch on a '74 V-12 roadster. By the time we were half done, I wanted to drink a bottle of 90-weight and go die in a corner. The engine is the size of Wyoming (and weighs twice as much), and it has to come out to replace the clutch. The transmission is crammed into a hole approximately one millimeter larger than its exterior dimensions. There are twenty — yes, twenty — radiator hoses. Half the wiring harness is shoved into the engine's vee, which means that it bakes itself silly during operation and often disintegrates when you try to disconnect it. Yecch.

Fittingly, a V-12 E-Type is nowhere near as entertaining or attractive as a six-cylinder one, which means that when you are done with said clutch job, you spend the rest of the afternoon drinking beer and trying to figure out why you bothered with the damn gig in the first place. If there is a hell, it is populated with too-short jack stands, leaking engine hoists, and twelve-cylinder E-Types. God save the queen. God no save this.

Shop time listed for the 944 Turbo clutch is 26 hours. An experienced shop can typically do it in less, but it's difficult to find an experienced shop.

Peter Egan once wrote up a quiz to determine whether or not one's car had character. Two of the items follow:

15. If replacing the clutch requires that the entire engine and transmission be pulled, give yourself 50 points.

16. If you would rather commit suicide than do another clutch job, give
yourself an added 50 points and call E-Type Owners' Hotline.

 

[Demon-Xanth]

Power steering pump for a 2005 325i: $175+45 core at rock auto. (picked because it was a common non-exotic BMW)
Power steering pump for my Dakota: $69+$11 core at rock auto.
Both reman.

yep, that's a difference.

 

[Demon-Xanth]

Shop time listed for the 944 Turbo clutch is 26 hours. An experienced shop can typically do it in less, but it's difficult to find an experienced shop.

Holy hell!

"What are you working on this week?"
"Porsche clutch."
"What else?"
"Don't have time for anything else."

26 hours*$80/hr shop rate (potentially a lowball)=$2060+parts. I wouldn't be surprised if you went through a Porsche autotrader and every 944 said "perfect car, just needs a new clutch!"

 

[SSSnail]

Power steering pump for a 2005 325i: $175+45 core at rock auto. (picked because it was a common non-exotic BMW)
Power steering pump for my Dakota: $69+$11 core at rock auto.
Both reman.

yep, that's a difference.

You keep comparing it to a domestic truck, you're not getting the point. Now compare it to anything else in its class, or imports and see what the price difference would be? Heck, compare that to a Honda and the price is almost the same.

As for design and easy of playing around in an engine bay, I'd much rather work on any BMW than Audis, or MBs, etc...

 

[Demon-Xanth]

You keep comparing it to a domestic truck, you're not getting the point. Now compare it to anything else in its class, or imports and see what the price difference would be? Heck, compare that to a Honda and the price is almost the same.

As for design and easy of playing around in an engine bay, I'd much rather work on any BMW than Audis, or MBs, etc...

That is the point. Audis, MBs, and etc are also referred to as expensive. The entire class of cars can be found reasonably cheap, but the maintenance costs are much higher than a similar sized non-luxury car. Heck, you can find a Rolls for $7k. But that'll be how much it'll cost you each year.

Just because you can buy a Rolls on a Rondo budget, doesn't mean you can drive one for that price.

 

[SSSnail]

That is the point. Audis, MBs, and etc are also referred to as expensive. The entire class of cars can be found reasonably cheap, but the maintenance costs are much higher than a similar sized non-luxury car. Heck, you can find a Rolls for $7k. But that'll be how much it'll cost you each year.

Just because you can buy a Rolls on a Rondo budget, doesn't mean you can drive one for that price.

What I'm saying is, it is expensive, but relative to much everything else it's not. A HONDA in my example was one of them. The perception is that a Honda or Toyota will cost less in maintenance is not entirely true.

 

[Zargon]

You keep comparing it to a domestic truck, you're not getting the point. Now compare it to anything else in its class, or imports and see what the price difference would be? Heck, compare that to a Honda and the price is almost the same.

As for design and easy of playing around in an engine bay, I'd much rather work on any BMW than Audis, or MBs, etc...

odd. a buddy of mine that moved here from Germany was a BMW mechanic for about 5 years.

he will never touch another one he says, and swears his loyalty to MB, which he has owned a few of now.

I have been under the hood of a e43 and I did not find it easy to work on.

then again, almost all cars made since about 1995 are a giant PITA to work on anyways though.

the thing that sucks about buying euro cars, is that you generally cant go to napa/vatozone/advanced\oreilly for most of your parts needs.

I have a euro built Saturn(Opel) Astra and I have no choice but to go to the dealer for parts and wait.

It sucks. I can fill a week of work on my Jeep with one trip to autozone with whats in stock, you cannot do that same thing with a BMW generally. or an audi, MB, Jag etc etc etc

Also, to the guy who asked about audi's.

Stay away! maintenance nightmare.

 

[marincounty]

Of course BMW maintenance is expensive, that's why they went to the 100k mile warranty. A very smart marketing move IMHO, takes away the major worry people have with a BMW.

 

[alkemyst]

no offense but a mechanic owning MB's and BMW's is probably not owning very good examples.

If a BMW is maintained it's not so bad, it they are not it's a disaster...same with MB.

 

[SSSnail]

Well, at least you can figure out most problems with BMWs. With MBs, a lot of phantom problems can't even be figured out or fixed by factory trained technicians (and I said that with a grin).

 

[marincounty]

Well, at least you can figure out most problems with BMWs. With MBs, a lot of phantom problems can't even be figured out or fixed by factory trained technicians (and I said that with a grin).

I know a couple of BMW mechanics, and they shudder at the thought of working on a MB.

 

[Zargon]

Well, at least you can figure out most problems with BMWs. With MBs, a lot of phantom problems can't even be figured out or fixed by factory trained technicians (and I said that with a grin).

are you ever going to say anything good about a BMW or bad about another car company that contains a shred of actual evidence or fact?

"That doesnt count, its a dakota, a honda would cost more to do that to:

OK? what honda? I have worked on tons of civics, parts are usually a dime a dozen, accords too!

what phantom problems with MB's?

what things on a BMW are easier to do than what domestic?

the innaccurate shitty generalization BS is getting knee deep??

I could stand in between the engine and radiator on my dodge ram

I couldnt find someone willing to change the water pump in my 2.4L quad4 HO because its such a HUGE PITA.

I could replace a head on my 99 3100 malibu in an afternoon.

Everything was easy to work on on my 85 Nissan 200SX Turbo

You are having 'good luck' with your BMW because, as you said, you take care of it!

A taken care of car will almost always(some parts are just bad from the factory, I had an AC Compressor go bad in 2 months before) be reliable compared to one thats not.

GM's from the 90's are notorious for bad alternators, sometimes you get lucky, I owned 7 different GMs from the 90's and had to replace one alternator.

 

[BW86]

I just changed the cooling system on my '99 a4 a few weeks ago and it honestly wasn't that bad.

waterpump ($50)
thermostat($15)
upper/lower radiator hoses($80)
coolant temp sensor($10)
$155+gaskets

Also while I was in there I changed the timing belt.

My brother has had his a4 for a few years with really no horror stories and thats what made me buy one. I love it.