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MrSquished said:
It's pretty funny that people can't accept that controlling the narrative is a plus it's a bonus it's the way to go, It's a big advant, It's a huge get for your team, whatever you want to call it. It really can't get simpler than that.

People are arguing with me about wasting the chance to control a narrative for a very serious situation. Which would also set the stage for what has to be done in a much better more methodical way. That is only good for the world economy and ours.
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The GOP (House majority) is the driver in the car, speeding down the road to destruction. Dems/Biden are in the passenger seat, which they have virtually no control of the direction of the Car (the Narrative). your belief is for the Dems/Biden to stay firm that they will pull the 14th amendment emergency brake, if the Republican's don't agree to stop. As in a real car, what would happen if you pulled the emergency brake at the wrong time? What if the emergency break doesn't work? As a passenger, wouldn't you try to get the driver to slow down, and/or change their mind before attempting to pull the emergency brake that may not actually work?

I think Biden/Dems has a better pulse on what's happening, and more control of the Narrative (direction of the car) than you realize.
 
MrSquished said:
Where the fuck did I imply the messaging is needed to talk to MAGA fascist horrible people? Can you keep up please?
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I can keep up just fine, you seem to lack a deeper understanding of things.

If you want to control a narrative you have to have a way of getting that narrative out to the mass of people.

Do you know how many Conservative radio shows are broadcast daily? Do you have any idea how you are going to get this message out to people that will never listen to, or even be broadcast this message?

You keep up instead of spouting off emotional distress, please.
 
MrSquished said:
Where the fuck did I imply the messaging is needed to talk to MAGA fascist horrible people? Can you keep up please?
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HUH? isn't controlling the narrative all about the messaging? That's what a narrative is, a story or message of what is happening.

What the fuck is wrong with you? for the past two months, you have not been yourself.. have you fallen off the deep end?
 
MrSquished said:
You are a fucking moron. How do you think end results happen and go over better and more successfully?

How the fuck do you think political power is won and exercised in this country? Any of it have to do with a message and consistent and correct messaging? How do great big decisions and great big events happen, no messaging? Every single fucking thing progressives have fought for the last century has been partially done through excellent messaging.

Dude. You are clueless to how the world works. Like fucking oblivious.

As I have stated a million times, the republicans are evil horrific people. But the Dems in power are fumbling around like morons and don't know how to deal with it.
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Uh, there is only one Moron here, and it isn't me. You keep thinking this situation is about votes and campaigning to get, or maintain power. It's not. This situation is about doing the right thing, not about power or maintaining power or worrying about votes. Maybe you don't understand leadership. A true leader does not worry about their image or popularity in such situations. Which is all your argument has to do with.
 
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MrSquished said:
You are a fucking moron. How do you think end results happen and go over better and more successfully?

How the fuck do you think political power is won and exercised in this country? Any of it have to do with a message and consistent and correct messaging? How do great big decisions and great big events happen, no messaging? Every single fucking thing progressives have fought for the last century has been partially done through excellent messaging.

Dude. You are clueless to how the world works. Like fucking oblivious.

As I have stated a million times, the republicans are evil horrific people. But the Dems in power are fumbling around like morons and don't know how to deal with it.
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Disagree.

What have progressives done in the last 100 years? Since 1923...

Given women the right to vote? Nope that happened before

Given women the right to abortion? Nope that was a progressive SCOTUS

Given people the right to marry interracially? Nope that was a progressive SCOTUS

Given people the right to marry same gender? Nope that was lucky SCOTUS.

100 years and we still haven't gotten anywhere forward really on legislation or constitutional change.

So who's really the moron here? The moron or the moron who follows him?

And you are right.. Obama could have done so much with his 9 month supermajority but he did so much for Republicans really..
 
eelw said:
As Michelle Obama says, When they go low, we go high. As much as Biden wants to stick to his guns, he has to do the responsible thing and make concessions to avoid the default.

As for Squishy bitching about the message, how much more can he say? He’s repeated ad nauseam congress has always lifted the debt ceiling without conditions. It’s about existing debt not future spending. He’s blunt how much the debt went up under the orange monkey while how much he’s been able to reduce it. It doesn’t help to have Sinechin and progressives stepping all over Biden’s message.

I’m wondering if Biden already has 5 R house members willing to join the Dems to force through a clean debt ceiling bill?
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I’ve evolved my thinking since then. When they go low you step on their necks and force their heads into the dirt until they decide they don’t want to go low again.

But maybe that’s just me.
 
eelw said:
As much as Biden wants to stick to his guns, he has to do the responsible thing and make concessions to avoid the default.
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Nonsense. The GOP will do anything to prop the stock market and McCarthy sending us into default would crush the stock market and cost the ruling class that funds them huge amounts of money. He's a yapping dog but eventually he'll have to pass a bill on the debt ceiling that will get Democrat votes.
 
Paratus said:
I’ve evolved my thinking since then. When they go low you step on their necks and force their heads into the dirt until they decide they don’t want to go low again.

But maybe that’s just me.
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Agreed. I said this a couple weeks ago.
Enough of that " they go low we go high" nonsense.
We beat them down and if they try to get up,
we beat them down again.
Lather, rinse repeat.
 
sportage said:
You want to see MTGreene squeal like a pig when she realizes what she has done, and what they the McCarthy maga mob has done. You want to see a broken MTG up there crying "I never thought THIS would happen". You want to see McCarthy brought to his knees and Greene chased thru the streets by her outraged constituents.
And you know what? I'd like to see that too.
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What?
There is no planet where MAGA will not justify their actions and blame Biden. For anything and everything.
Blame... themselves? Wow... I need what you are smoking.
 
SteveGrabowski said:
Nonsense. The GOP will do anything to prop the stock market and McCarthy sending us into default would crush the stock market and cost the ruling class that funds them huge amounts of money. He's a yapping dog but eventually he'll have to pass a bill on the debt ceiling that will get Democrat votes.
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Honestly, it's just as likely that the Biden administration will have to mint a platinum coin.

I'm not saying a final minute deal can't be struck, but what you're suggesting isn't very realistic. The problem is McCarthy sold his own ass to the "Freedom" Caucus to get elected Speaker by the narrowest of margins, and that's all he fucken cares about. They do not care if the economy tanks, because they mostly don't care about the middle class and many are fixated on the dream of "starving the beast" (the federal government, except the military of course).

I guess there's a universe where if Sen. McConnell leans hard enough, you could find a handful of moderate House members to cross the aisle and pass a compromise bill. But there are almost no moderate House GOP members left; and outside of obstruction, Mitch doesn't really have powers of persuasion. You can make the case that if push came to shove, McCarthy cares more about being Speaker than averting a completely manufactured economic crisis. If he even tries to pass a reasonable bill (let's say Dems offer up some minor concessions), he knows Freedumb will kick his ass to the curb.

You might be right that the GQP may ultimately cave days or weeks after a damaging default has already occurred, but in light of the looming June 1st deadline, their list of wants is completely unreasonable when compared to prior clean debt limit increases. FFS look at the U.S. Chamber of Commerce claiming that the executive branch invoking the 14th Amendment is as bad as an actual default:

 
Heres a crazy idea, lets repay some of the national debt. Aren't debts meant to be repaid, not accumulated? Yet old man Biden wants to pile on even more because of reckless spending.
 
So, why doesn't the Senate ammend the House bill into a simple keep the government running bill and send it back to the House? Each time the Republican put forth a hostage bill, gut it into a reasonable legislation and send it back.
 
Oof the conservative takes I am reading that think Biden using the 14th/coin is going to be politically devastating for him are pretty out there. Same people thought the Rs would pay no political price for SCOTUS overturning Roe. More convinced than ever that the public at large is not going to give a fuck how a default is avoided just that it is.
 
Yeah. Joe Biden has his pulse on the debt ceiling. He admits there isn't even enough time to utilize a unilateral action

"Pressed by CNN's Phil Mattingly to clarify whether he thought he could invoke the 14th Amendment as a serious and tangible option, the president made clear that maneuver would not be successful given the short window remaining.

"We have not come up with unilateral action that could succeed in a matter of two weeks or three weeks. That's the issue. So it's up to lawmakers. But my hope and intention is to resolve this problem," he said."

From the horses mouth.

This administration flunked this huge test. They have no idea what they're doing.

They not only didn't spend this time framing the narrative, they were clueless about how to message the 14th amendment/coin options because they hadn't even been planning properly. What a joke.
 
MrSquished said:
Yeah. Joe Biden has his pulse on the debt ceiling. He admits there isn't even enough time to utilize a unilateral action

"Pressed by CNN's Phil Mattingly to clarify whether he thought he could invoke the 14th Amendment as a serious and tangible option, the president made clear that maneuver would not be successful given the short window remaining.

"We have not come up with unilateral action that could succeed in a matter of two weeks or three weeks. That's the issue. So it's up to lawmakers. But my hope and intention is to resolve this problem," he said."

From the horses mouth.

This administration flunked this huge test. They have no idea what they're doing.

They not only didn't spend this time framing the narrative, they were clueless about how to message the 14th amendment/coin options because they hadn't even been planning properly. What a joke.
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If they are truly in dire straits they can strike the coin at West Point and chopper it down for deposit at the Federal Reserve Bank in NYC probably in the space of a day. The Fed should have break the glass plans in place by now or could have them ready to go soon if required. Powell refused to rule out accepting the coin so faced with default he certainly will accept its deposit and pass the buck to SCOTUS.
 
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