And just to be clear, repealing the Inflation Reduction Act would increase the federal deficit/debt.
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Debt Limitapalooza 2023!
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Paratus
Lifer
I think it’s more they don’t know how even if they wanted to. They exist to get attention on Fox News.
MrSquished
Lifer
You missed a big part of their existence. Like a really big important part. To make people suffer that they want to suffer. This is not just about attention, this is about being oppressive and only having the interests of the wealthy and white at hand. That is why they exist, to make life easiest for the few while fucking over many. If attention on Fox News is part of it, they will do it. You just think it's all performative, as you have stated before about some of the worst GQP people like DeSantis. You kind of forget it's not just performative at all. There is a material goal to all of this.
Well you know me, I’m a naive non-politics-knower.
MrSquished
Lifer
Since you refuse to answer questions about simple things like has great evil happened in the past due to similar political movements as what we have here, so can it happen here now, or if you still feel that frontrunners in the GQP primary race as of now would respect democracy and also you say stuff like - he doesn't believe this, it's just for attention and to trigger you, aka it's performative, and now that their existence is just to be on fox news, you are also only acknowledging a performative part, so feel free to let us lower IQ politically ignorant people know what you think is at stake here, besides performative things.
The material goal is too get elected and stay in power. Then distract, distract and distract while passing laws to keep moving money from the middle class and working poor up to the wealthy and large corporations. Just throw a $200 tax cut their way once and a while to wash some of the blood of their hands.
Democratic politicians do the same (get elected stay on power) - except their wealthy donors expect their party to actually do some good for the middle class and poor. Just not too much - they like money too.
There is a reason wealth inequality is a major problem in America, and it can’t all be dumped at the feet of the republicans just because democratic leaders had 'other priorities' at the time. / OT Rant
MrSquished
Lifer
Of course a goal is to have or get and obtain power. But there are also other intentions. You can get and maintain power by being better than those people, just look at how it is in some other first world countries.
These folks, like many in the present and many in recent history, have other goals behind the want for power, they want to oppress. They literally want to oppress - whether it is women, or by ethnicity/minority/race, class, sexuality, whatever.
Until we recognize the enemy for what they are, we can't win.
That is an impressively long sentence.
MrSquished
Lifer
That was an impressively short deflection. Some of your others have been a bit longer.
I genuinely have no interest in engaging with you. You’re going to have to accept that and no amount of subtweeting me or whatever is going to change that.
MrSquished
Lifer
Oh I totally understand. A very common phrase used when the case is people can't answer straightforward and simple questions. Because they don't want to look wrong. All good, I get you.
You got me, lol.
GodisanAtheist
Diamond Member
Not gonna read 27 pages of this shit, but two questions in the event that I missed something of value:
- Why not mint one singly coin of immense value? Why 1 Trillion? Why not 50 Trillion, or 100 Trillion? Why not just make it a non-issue for a long, long time? Don't just kick the can down the road, punt that shit into orbit.
- Why don't Dems, knowing this is an issue year after year after year make it a point to pass legislation that removes the cap or or auto-raises the cap when they have control? I know the cynical answer is "debt ceiling fights hurt Republicans" but is there some other more technical reason at play?
- Why not mint one singly coin of immense value? Why 1 Trillion? Why not 50 Trillion, or 100 Trillion? Why not just make it a non-issue for a long, long time? Don't just kick the can down the road, punt that shit into orbit.
- Why don't Dems, knowing this is an issue year after year after year make it a point to pass legislation that removes the cap or or auto-raises the cap when they have control? I know the cynical answer is "debt ceiling fights hurt Republicans" but is there some other more technical reason at play?
1) yes if they mint the coin they should mint it for essentially an unlimited amount.
2) people like to demagogue.
j powell said that the coin might not be accepted.
Trillion-dollar coin: Fed Chair Jerome Powell calls it an unrealistic way to battle the debt ceiling
Under the theory, the government could mint a $1 trillion coin, deposit it with the Federal Reserve and draw on this injection of value to pay bills.
K1052
Elite Member
j powell said that the coin might not be accepted.
Trillion-dollar coin: Fed Chair Jerome Powell calls it an unrealistic way to battle the debt ceiling
Under the theory, the government could mint a $1 trillion coin, deposit it with the Federal Reserve and draw on this injection of value to pay bills.news.yahoo.com
Not exactly an ironclad no.
^Powell deserves a punch in the nuts, IMHO. Curiously, my mum said that 'these companies' are just using inflation as an excuse to get rich. Now, I always take life advice from my 82 year old mother, but for stuff like this I say 'uh, sure mom' - and occasionally look it up. Looky see here:
I thought this was relevant, because these freaking tax dodging buggers at the top are part of the reason our debt is so high and also the reason US 'middle class' pay levels are around 1/3 lower than they should be assuming we had reaped the rewards of our massive gains in productivity over the past 30 years (rather than just the top 10%). So the middle class could have handled being taxed higher as well - and we wouldn't have a silent revolt on our hands. Honestly, these bastards should experience the business end of a cattle prod being shoved up their posteriors.
I thought this was relevant, because these freaking tax dodging buggers at the top are part of the reason our debt is so high and also the reason US 'middle class' pay levels are around 1/3 lower than they should be assuming we had reaped the rewards of our massive gains in productivity over the past 30 years (rather than just the top 10%). So the middle class could have handled being taxed higher as well - and we wouldn't have a silent revolt on our hands. Honestly, these bastards should experience the business end of a cattle prod being shoved up their posteriors.
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MrSquished
Lifer
Greedflation, not just inflation
SMOGZINN
Lifer
Because it increases the monetary base of the United States. Minting the coin is exactly the same as just printing the money to pay the debt. The more you print the less valuable it is. In this case the money is just virtual. It still acts the same way when you use it to get around debt. The Fed must offset the amount of the coin somehow or it will lead to inflation. If the number is small enough it can do so in a number of ways, but print too too much value (in the form of one or more coins) and it will not be able to offset the value and that will lead to uncontrolled hyperinflation. Print way too much and the value of the dollar will crash as everybody loses faith in it.
Because they can't. Congress must tell the Treasury how to pay the bills the Constitution directly says so. It probably would not be constitutional for them to just have it automatically increase. They could once again combine it with the budget (which is how it was for most of our countries history) so that when a new budget is made it includes a part where it details how to pay for that budget, but budget negotiations nearly impossible as is and they don't want to add that to the process.
This is how I know you don't understand what printing the coin means. Why not print a hundred gazillion dollar coin and pay off the national debt and buy the moon!
No, that's not how this works and I don't think you understand what printing the coin means.
When you mint the coin it's not going into circulation and therefore it has no impact on inflation regardless of the amount. When the feds draw on that coin based account to pay bills the money then WOULD go into circulation and be inflationary but this can be offset by the fed selling an identical dollar value worth of securities. It ends up being just a different way to 'borrow' money - no inflation impact different than current policy.
SMOGZINN
Lifer
Yes, you definitly do not know what you are talking about. Sure, the coin itself is not going into circulation, but the entire point of it is that is creates seigniorage, which magically creates value, and that value is being put into circulation as payment of debt. You seem to think this is about how we do the accounting, it is not, it is about how we pay and service debt.
Look the idea is if I mint a trillion dollar coin, I have created 1 trillion in off the book value, and that is no problem. It does not effect the economy in any way, it also does not get around the debt celling because it is not being put on the books, we can not spend it. So, Congress said that it is fine for the Treasury to do so with out any approval.
The loophole is that because it is a coin minted by the US Treasury it is actually legal tender, so if the Treasury should then deposit that coin into the national treasury it created seigniorage, or the difference between the value of the coin and the cost to produce the coin, in value which in another bill Congress said could be added to the books. So, the value of coin is not being entered into the books, but the difference between the cost of the coin and the value of the coin is being put into the books. That in essence creates money out of thin air. Money that the Treasury will then spend to service the debt. Otherwise it would not fix the debt celling problem.
You are repeating what I said back to me while saying I don't know what I'm talking about, haha.
To quote the post you are replying to:
This is why minting the coin has no greater impact on inflation than current policy. It is also why your 'buy the moon' argument was nonsensical.
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