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debating to get radeon 9800 pro vs. Geforce FX5900 Ultra

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Yah, you see according to ATI users, the 9700 blows away any 5800/5900nu easily. So I figured I'd test that theory by offering my 9700 for a 5900nu. 🙂 Like I said, not one bite and I dont expect to get one... LOL... It may not be faster of course, but they say the AA and IQ is vastly superior
rolleye.gif


Who knows, maybe someone will trade me for it. I would probably even take a 5700Ultra in exchange.
 
this is the FIRST flamefest ive ever started before. anyway, debate is over. ive decided to wait for the enxt gen cards. thanks for the help though, if i hadnt gotten answers i probably would have gotten the 9800 pro.
 
The only way to cheat, then, is to have application detection pre-written code, meaning that it isn't happening in real-time anymore.
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That isn't the only way to cheat. The two main cheats are prior knowledge and purposefully altered output.
 
Yah, you see according to ATI users, the 9700 blows away any 5800/5900nu easily. So I figured I'd test that theory by offering my 9700 for a 5900nu.
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I tried to do this last year, trade my 9700Pro for a 5800U. No takers, no interest.
 
lol, that is because just about the only ones who bought the 5800u's were diehard nvidia fanboys who wouldn't use an ati card no matter what they were missing. i think this goes for the 5900's too although not as much.
 
After the first 3DMark fiasco Unwinder analayzed nVidia's drivers and found no less than forty game-specific checks in them. He then implemented anti-cheat scripts that defeated them and also lowered performance considerably in a wide variety of games as a result (DigitLife did some tests and found this indeed to be the case). Then nVidia responded by encrypting their drivers to defeat his anti-cheating routines.
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One of the app detections was for Splinter Cell. In Splinter Cell those horrible cheating b@stards disable MSAA because it doesn't work with the game, the audacity! Your comments continue to get more and more comical BFG, particularly when you are talking about ATi having unprepared drivers for DooM3 which explicitly states you expect them to cheat by your standards. Prior knowledge means that they would have to know the game existed and furthermore that they would have had to build optimizations based on said knowledge around how the title works. Try and spin it however you like, you blast nV for cheating and complain that ATi isn't given enough time to cheat.
 
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After the first 3DMark fiasco Unwinder analayzed nVidia's drivers and found no less than forty game-specific checks in them. He then implemented anti-cheat scripts that defeated them and also lowered performance considerably in a wide variety of games as a result (DigitLife did some tests and found this indeed to be the case). Then nVidia responded by encrypting their drivers to defeat his anti-cheating routines.
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One of the app detections was for Splinter Cell. In Splinter Cell those horrible cheating b@stards disable MSAA because it doesn't work with the game, the audacity! Your comments continue to get more and more comical BFG, particularly when you are talking about ATi having unprepared drivers for DooM3 which explicitly states you expect them to cheat by your standards. Prior knowledge means that they would have to know the game existed and furthermore that they would have had to build optimizations based on said knowledge around how the title works. Try and spin it however you like, you blast nV for cheating and complain that ATi isn't given enough time to cheat.
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nice.
 
If you ?re going to get a high end card I would think AA/AF are a consideration and in that case I would take the 9800pro over a 5900U, particularly if you want to use AF. If you don?t use the AA/AF then the difference between the cards is going to be minor except in DX9 games which could still really favor the 9800. THG (VGA charts part III) used either a custom demo and/or fraps in his 3 quality gaming charts. The performance hit that the 5900U takes using just AF is huge compared to the ATI cards ? ?

1024x768 ? no AF ? 8AF

UT3

5900U??105.4 ? 66.4
9800p ? ?107.6 ? 87.5
9600XT ? 70.4 ? 57.2

Call of Duty

5900U??121.9 ? 54.1
9800p ? ?132.7?79.9
9600XT ? 95.3 ? 55.1

Nascar Thunder

5900U??62.6 ? 47.2
9800p? ?63.7 ?63.2
9600XT ? 63.5 ? 50.5


In 2 of those cases with 8AF the midrange 9600XT is beating the 5900U -- and the 9800pro is much faster. And I?ve seen this repeated numerous times in other games at a couple of other reviews. As soon as you get away from the built in demos and games that hardware sites usually use and use fraps on a newer game or one without a built in benchmark, the ATI cards are much faster with AF. AA seems to produce about the same performance drop with ATI and NV but the the extra speed gained with the 9800pro using 8AF lets you use 4AA much more.
 
Ok guys just to kick of the flamming off again as it was quite funny reading all your posts thx for the info so far.

Is it worth the upgrade from a gf4 ti4600 128mb to a 5900XT 128mb for £135 or the Leadtek WinFast A350TDH LX GeForce FX 5900 128mb £164, or any other recommendations i have always been a nvidia fan have thought seriously about going to ati a couple of times but all my friends have ati cards and not one has ever had 100% reliability and not all games work for them, 3 of which I share a house with, I'm not saying that I have never had a problem because I have with a few games but the drivers soon ironed them out.

The reason for sersiously doing this, is to be able to play X-2, Star Wars Galaxies and Deus Ex Invisible wars at a descent resolution with the options on and run at a playable speeds. (Pretty)

Thanks guys & girls(nice to see some here) play nice.
Inferno
 
Sorry forgot to add one more thing I have been sifting through benchmarks comparisons etc etc.

But none of these benchmarks I have found so far use the latest nvidia drivers, the only one I found was a half life 2 comparison with the new 53.xx det and the margin is now only a few frames between the 2 cards on the majority of the results + half life 2 being delayed till september allows for allot of changes that could happen between now and then like 2 new generations of gpu's and driver updates.

I'm not interested in the fact of cheating i.e because nvidia have turned this and that off in there drivers all manufacturers do this, just want the results it a shame there are no ti4600 vs the 5900 vs radeon 9600+ over a range of games.

Inferno
 
I could not find the original website I found through a forumn could well have been fake but came accross this site with tests against the 53.03 drivers which leads me to beleive the one's I saw before were fake.

Infernohttp://www.digital-daily.com/video/nvidia-forceware-5216/index05.htm

Another thing I found nvidia have really dropped the quality of the image in order for half-life 2 to perform in the lastest drivers, and I have got to be honest it is very noticable and not to hot very dissapointed being a long time nvidia fan well upto the point when 3dFX died out anyway.

So looks like I may have to take the 50/50 chance and hope I have not probs with a ati card, see if I can be converted.

Thanks for the link btw will have a good read when I get out of work.

Inferno
 
after just getting this 9800 pro, all i can say is " wow. " the card is plain awesome. after seeing its performance, it really was worth buying it. the only reason id get an nvidia card now, would be to get a 5900 XT/SE, because its cheaper, faster then 9800 non pro, and can be easily overclocked to 5900 ultra speeds. basically, it all depends on the funds if i chose nvidia. but i wanted the best video card, and quite frankly, a 9800 pro series is the best imho. for $200 you can get a 5900 XT/SE, another $100 or so and you got a 5900 ultra. if yoo go with nvidia, i suggest a 5900 XT/SE for $200, if your gonna pay over $200, get a 9800 pro series, they overclock easily to XT speeds.
 
My next card will be an Nvidia, probably a 59xx when it comes down more. I'm constantly seeing websites explaining how to fix problem with game X when using ATI cards, and reading about new ATI drivers coming out so often, trying to fix a compatibility problem with this and that. The 59xx could be faster, or the 9800 could be faster, I don't know, and I could care less about a few FPS difference.
 
If I ever upgrade soon, it will be the Radeon 9800xt because it's the fastest thing that will fit in my Shuttl XPC mini computer and have proper cooling. ATI is BETTER! 😛
 
One of the app detections was for Splinter Cell. In Splinter Cell those horrible cheating b@stards disable MSAA because it doesn't work with the game, the audacity!
Click to expand...
Is it app detection? So if one renames the executable then we can expect MSAA to work again?

I think not.

Your comments continue to get more and more comical BFG,
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No what's comical is your "nVidia can do no wrong" attitude and your "anyone who exposes nVidia's cheats is on ATi's payroll". You must be the only person in the world who thinks XGI isn't cheating and because of this there's little surprise that you don't think nVidia are cheating since their actions are more covert and less blatant than XGI's.

What about Unwinder's findings?
FutureMark's?
Gabe's?
The websites that used Unwinder's detection and noticed a dramatic performance loss on most apps?
The websites that used custom benchmarks and showed nVidia taking a nose-dive in games which they had previously dominated?
The websites that exposed nVidia's "UT2003.exe" and similar detection?
The BS "optimization guidelines" that nVidia produced which were broken by the very next set of drivers?
Or the comments from Perez basically confirming everything FutureMark had been saying?

Nope, there's no evidence of nVidia's cheating anywhere. It's all just one big conspiracy, eh Ben? Or is it just one big hack?
rolleye.gif


particularly when you are talking about ATi having unprepared drivers for DooM3 which explicitly states you expect them to cheat by your standards.
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Not really, no.
 
Originally posted by: dejacky
If I ever upgrade soon, it will be the Radeon 9800xt because it's the fastest thing that will fit in my Shuttl XPC mini computer and have proper cooling. ATI is BETTER! 😛
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friend of mine has a athlon 64 3000+ in his shuttle with a 9800 XT, along with a sata wd raptor drive. let me just say, its the fastest machnie ive ever personally witnessed. hes planning on getting the 3400+, i cant wait to see it then. ati rules.
 
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No he's not, I don't think they cheated.
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So what would you call it?
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A tradeoff, of IQ for Speed. Sometimes we do it too, lower that AA so we can get those extra fps.
 
Originally posted by: Pete
An Athlon 64 and a 9800 XT in a Shuttle cube?! And people say 350W isn't burly enough....
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Yah, shuttles use "enhanced" PSU's and low power consumption Flex ATX mainboards. Thats how they get away with 200W PSU's in their cubes.

 
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