Death penalty for pedophiles?

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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,055
48,054
136
Originally posted by: steppinthrax
What do you think the likely hood is for people who are released from prison. Someone who is parolled or eventually leaves the system does little for the world after they leave. In that fact they either commit another crime or they end up on the streets. Most people who are institutionalized for that long have a hard time going back to normal. I also don't feel it's worth it for those who have life in prison without the possibility for parol. What are you actually teaching a person when you put them in prison for ever. The idea is they will eventually rot in prison. They can't do anything productive for themselves (what they want to do) in prison either.

I don't feel comfortable paying my tax dollars (let alone if it's coming from somwhere else) for someone to sit in an A/C comfortable cell, get fed every day and entertain themselves. What exactly is someone putting into the system who killed someone, gets life and sits in prision leaching off the system. Is it worth rehabilitating someone who has life.

Well, it costs less money to keep someone in jail for life then it does to execute them. It also creates the possibility that if the state was wrong, they can in some way correct that mistake. Considering all of the innocent people that keep popping up on death row I believe it would be difficult to argue that our appeals system for them should be scaled back.

I also believe your argument about the overall crappiness of our prison system is a far better argument for reform of the prison system then it is for an expansion of the death penalty.
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,195
126
They should call it the "Pay for the molestation, get murder free" bill, since there is not going to be any additional punishment for a molester killing his victim.
 

ayabe

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2005
7,449
0
0
Originally posted by: Genx87
Castration does nothing. Talk about a waste of taxpayers money. Pedophilia(sp) and rape are pyschological issues, not sexual.

Sure it's a disincentive that's less severe than death, that's better than what we currently have - which amounts to talking to a shrink and promising not to be bad. Therapy actually enables sociopaths in my opinion.

It's also cheaper than locking them up or killing them and it might help suppress their 'urges'.
 

RightIsWrong

Diamond Member
Apr 29, 2005
5,649
0
0
Can anyone link me to a study that shows that capital punishment is a deterrent? I'm not able to find anything that supports this argument. What I did find was.....



Much of the current recent research suggests that the death penalty does not have a significant deterrent effect. One study by Sorenson and Wrinkle (1999) in Texas speculated that, if a deterrent effect did exist, it would be found in Texas because of the extreme numbers of death sentences and executions within the state. They not only found that there was no deterrent effect but that number of executions was unrelated to murder rates and felony rates as well. Another study by William Bailey (1998) in Oklahoma also found no deterrent effect; however, he did find that there was a significant increase in stranger killings and non-felony killings after Oklahoma resumed executions.

Moreover, Bailey conducted studies of several states, including Ohio, Oregon, North Carolina, and California and found no deterrent effect (Bailey, 1978, 1979, 1979, 1979). A study by Decker and Kohfeld (1990) used a 50-year time series from 1930-1980 to assess the effect of executions on murder rates in North Carolina, California, Texas, New York, and Georgia. Essentially, they found no deterrent effect in their analysis.

Most recently, according to a survey by the New York Times, states without the death penalty have lower homicides rates than states with the death penalty. Comparisons show that the average murder rate per 10,000 population in 1999 was 5.5 among death penalty states versus 3.6 among non-death penalty states (DPIC, 2001).

In California, instead of finding support evidence of a deterrent effect, Robert Harris found support for the brutalization effect (Harris, 1999). The brutalization effect suggests that executions increase crime rather than act as a deterrent. Harris found slight increases in homicides during the eight months following the execution. Another study, entitled The Capital Punishment Quagmire in America, examined differences in homicides and violent crime in 293 pairs of counties. They found no deterrent effect and higher violent crime rates in death penalty counties (Harries & Cheatwood, 1997).

A study by Radelet and Akers (1996) surveyed America's criminologists and discovered that most (87.5%) believe that the death penalty does, and can do, very little to reduce rates of criminal violence. In addition, they cited a survey by Peter D. Hart Associates, which found little support (26%) for the deterrence argument out of a random sample of police chiefs and county sheriffs throughout the Unites States.

An earlier study by Issac Ehrlich (1975) has played an important role in the public debate on the death penalty. Before this, most of the work on death penalty and deterrence was conducted by Thomas Sellin. In one particular study, Sellin examined groups of contiguous states, each group containing one state with capital punsishment ("retentionist") and one state without ("abolitionist"). His conclusion was that executions have no discernible effect on homicide death rates (McGahey, 1996). However, using an econometric technique to examine murder and execution rates in the U.S. from 1933-1969, Ehrlich found that capital punishment did in fact have a deterrent effect. He concluded that for each execution there was a deterrence of 7 to 8 murders (McGahey, 1996). This study received immediately criticisms from other criminologists. Passell and Taylor replicated the study and found when the period from 1963-1969 was excluded, the deterrent effect was statistically insignificant (McGahey, 1996). Bowers and Pierce found similar results and also questioned Erhlich's use of FBI rather than Vital Statistics data (McGahey, 1996). In 1985, Layson repeated Erhlich's study, making several improvements, including the use of Vital Statistics data, and confirmed findings of a deterrent effect (Layson, 1985). Finally, work by Brian Forst (1983) suggests that on balance the death penalty does not have a perceptible influence on the homicide rate.

Despite the ambiguity found amongst these studies, some proponents still argue that a swifter death penalty would be an effective deterrent, but, to achieve this, the criminal justice system must eliminate abuses of the use of writ of habeus corpus, which can delay death sentences. They also argue that by executing these dangerous criminals countless lives are being saved.

Edit: Source
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,095
513
126
Originally posted by: ayabe
Originally posted by: Genx87
Castration does nothing. Talk about a waste of taxpayers money. Pedophilia(sp) and rape are pyschological issues, not sexual.

Sure it's a disincentive that's less severe than death, that's better than what we currently have - which amounts to talking to a shrink and promising not to be bad. Therapy actually enables sociopaths in my opinion.

It's also cheaper than locking them up or killing them and it might help suppress their 'urges'.

Well i think it would be cheaper yet if we simply tossed the jerk behind bars until he died. Toss him into general and chances are what our judicial system cant do, the prison population will.

As for castration, you might as well threaten to lop off a finger or leg. You will get the same disincentive value to one of these sickos.

 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,055
48,054
136
Originally posted by: senseamp
Well, since executing killers did so much to reduce Texas murder rates, why not try it with other crimes.

You're kidding, right?
 

Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
20,736
1,377
126
Originally posted by: eskimospy
Originally posted by: senseamp
Well, since executing killers did so much to reduce Texas murder rates, why not try it with other crimes.

You're kidding, right?

I believe that's the sweet sound of sarcasm there, buddy :)
 

manowar821

Diamond Member
Mar 1, 2007
6,063
0
0
Originally posted by: Ryan
Originally posted by: steppinthrax
Originally posted by: eskimospy
Originally posted by: steppinthrax
Originally posted by: BoberFett
Death penalty for pedophiles

Apparently we're going to keep moving the bar lower for capital punishment. As horrific a crime as child rape is, does is really require the death penalty? Is raping a child really that much worse than raping an adult? Will a 17 year old with a 15 year old girlfriend in a state where minors can face the death penalty find themselves strapped to a gurney?

On top of the death penalty being an irreversible punishment, and all too frequently found to have been sentenced upon innocent people, this seems like we're going the wrong direction.

I'm very for the death penalty. I believe a lot of things should be punishable with death. That is the problem in this country right now. Everybody gets a good attorney and gets off or does good behavior in prison and gets time reduction. Does a plea bargin for information and gets off. In China for example if your caught with drugs it's the death penalty. China dosen't pussyfy their death penalty like the U.S. does. They use a firing range execution style in public display. That will teach people not to break the law.

I do also suggest persons who show psychologically that they are true pedophiles should be medically casterated. In some situations it dosen't have to be proven but if at least they perform the criminal act of pedophilia they should be chemically casterated or physically. I also believe in branded people like you would do cattle so everyone knows you were a pedophilia.

It has been said dozens if not hundreds of times on here, but it will not teach people not to break the law. There is NO correlation between the death penalty and a decrease in crime. Increasing the severity of punishments is the WORST possible way to control crime. Studies have clearly... clearly shown that if you reduce prison sentences, but put that money into more law enforcement that you will have a far better effect on crime rates then simply more draconian laws.

I'm not sure if you guys know this, but rape used to be an executable offense in the US until Coker v. Georgia. The supreme court concluded that the punishment was far in excess of the crime committed, and so it ran afoul of the cruel and unusual punishment clause of the constitution. (that, and that close to ninety percent of the people sentenced to death for rape were black, so it was racist too) As the article mentions, this law may very well run into problems when it reaches the supreme court.

What do you think the likely hood is for people who are released from prison. Someone who is parolled or eventually leaves the system does little for the world after they leave. In that fact they either commit another crime or they end up on the streets. Most people who are institutionalized for that long have a hard time going back to normal. I also don't feel it's worth it for those who have life in prison without the possibility for parol. What are you actually teaching a person when you put them in prison for ever. The idea is they will eventually rot in prison. They can't do anything productive for themselves (what they want to do) in prison either.

I don't feel comfortable paying my tax dollars (let alone if it's coming from somwhere else) for someone to sit in an A/C comfortable cell, get fed every day and entertain themselves. What exactly is someone putting into the system who killed someone, gets life and sits in prision leaching off the system. Is it worth rehabilitating someone who has life.

Who are you to decide the worthiness of life? I could tell you myself, that if I were ever faced with the choice, I'd choose to spend the rest of my life in prison, rather than death.

Also - it costs more to put a person to death in thsi country than it would cost to keep them in prison for life - this is a FACT: http://www.google.com/search?q=death+penalty+expense

You're right, who does get to decide how a violent sex crime gets punished?

I know if someone raped, or tried to rape my girlfriend, she wouldn't hesitate to stab him in the throat. That's the way it should be, as well.

If someone wants to hurt, rape or kill another human being for their own personal enjoyment or gain, they are putting themselves in the position to be killed or seriously maimed/injured.

I have no sympathy for rapists, or murderers. Self defense or protection of a loved one is the only time hurting someone is acceptable in my eyes.

I'd like the death penalty to be unnecessary... I'd REALLY like to see women stand up and beat their attackers to within an inch of their life, spit on them, and then end it. Rapists deserve no mercy.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,055
48,054
136
Originally posted by: Arkaign
Originally posted by: eskimospy
Originally posted by: senseamp
Well, since executing killers did so much to reduce Texas murder rates, why not try it with other crimes.

You're kidding, right?

I believe that's the sweet sound of sarcasm there, buddy :)

Just making sure. My head was about to explode.
 

CycloWizard

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
12,348
1
81
Yet another shortcoming of our nation in 'treating' those with mental disorders. It's too expensive to treat/institutionalize them, so just fry 'em. :(
 

steppinthrax

Diamond Member
Jul 17, 2006
3,990
6
81
Originally posted by: Ryan
Originally posted by: steppinthrax
Originally posted by: eskimospy
Originally posted by: steppinthrax
Originally posted by: BoberFett
Death penalty for pedophiles

Apparently we're going to keep moving the bar lower for capital punishment. As horrific a crime as child rape is, does is really require the death penalty? Is raping a child really that much worse than raping an adult? Will a 17 year old with a 15 year old girlfriend in a state where minors can face the death penalty find themselves strapped to a gurney?

On top of the death penalty being an irreversible punishment, and all too frequently found to have been sentenced upon innocent people, this seems like we're going the wrong direction.

I'm very for the death penalty. I believe a lot of things should be punishable with death. That is the problem in this country right now. Everybody gets a good attorney and gets off or does good behavior in prison and gets time reduction. Does a plea bargin for information and gets off. In China for example if your caught with drugs it's the death penalty. China dosen't pussyfy their death penalty like the U.S. does. They use a firing range execution style in public display. That will teach people not to break the law.

I do also suggest persons who show psychologically that they are true pedophiles should be medically casterated. In some situations it dosen't have to be proven but if at least they perform the criminal act of pedophilia they should be chemically casterated or physically. I also believe in branded people like you would do cattle so everyone knows you were a pedophilia.

It has been said dozens if not hundreds of times on here, but it will not teach people not to break the law. There is NO correlation between the death penalty and a decrease in crime. Increasing the severity of punishments is the WORST possible way to control crime. Studies have clearly... clearly shown that if you reduce prison sentences, but put that money into more law enforcement that you will have a far better effect on crime rates then simply more draconian laws.

I'm not sure if you guys know this, but rape used to be an executable offense in the US until Coker v. Georgia. The supreme court concluded that the punishment was far in excess of the crime committed, and so it ran afoul of the cruel and unusual punishment clause of the constitution. (that, and that close to ninety percent of the people sentenced to death for rape were black, so it was racist too) As the article mentions, this law may very well run into problems when it reaches the supreme court.

What do you think the likely hood is for people who are released from prison. Someone who is parolled or eventually leaves the system does little for the world after they leave. In that fact they either commit another crime or they end up on the streets. Most people who are institutionalized for that long have a hard time going back to normal. I also don't feel it's worth it for those who have life in prison without the possibility for parol. What are you actually teaching a person when you put them in prison for ever. The idea is they will eventually rot in prison. They can't do anything productive for themselves (what they want to do) in prison either.

I don't feel comfortable paying my tax dollars (let alone if it's coming from somwhere else) for someone to sit in an A/C comfortable cell, get fed every day and entertain themselves. What exactly is someone putting into the system who killed someone, gets life and sits in prision leaching off the system. Is it worth rehabilitating someone who has life.

Who are you to decide the worthiness of life? I could tell you myself, that if I were ever faced with the choice, I'd choose to spend the rest of my life in prison, rather than death.

Also - it costs more to put a person to death in thsi country than it would cost to keep them in prison for life - this is a FACT: http://www.google.com/search?q=death+penalty+expense

That is because of the way it's done. You are put on death row and sit there forever waiting to be killed. Peterson is still alive for some reason and I don't understand it. There should be methods of accelearting this and ultimatley making this process very quick (2 to 3 days).
 

jlbenedict

Banned
Jul 10, 2005
3,724
0
0
Originally posted by: CycloWizard
Yet another shortcoming of our nation in 'treating' those with mental disorders. It's too expensive to treat/institutionalize them, so just fry 'em. :(


So, what is the problem with that?

:confused:
 

steppinthrax

Diamond Member
Jul 17, 2006
3,990
6
81
Originally posted by: CycloWizard
Yet another shortcoming of our nation in 'treating' those with mental disorders. It's too expensive to treat/institutionalize them, so just fry 'em. :(

We have plenty of people in the world. Why should we concentrate on a few. It's like if I baby one blade of grass on a one acre lawn.
 

Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
20,736
1,377
126
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: ayabe
Originally posted by: Genx87
Castration does nothing. Talk about a waste of taxpayers money. Pedophilia(sp) and rape are pyschological issues, not sexual.

Sure it's a disincentive that's less severe than death, that's better than what we currently have - which amounts to talking to a shrink and promising not to be bad. Therapy actually enables sociopaths in my opinion.

It's also cheaper than locking them up or killing them and it might help suppress their 'urges'.

Well i think it would be cheaper yet if we simply tossed the jerk behind bars until he died. Toss him into general and chances are what our judicial system cant do, the prison population will.

As for castration, you might as well threaten to lop off a finger or leg. You will get the same disincentive value to one of these sickos.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co...R2006070400960_3.html?nav=rss_metro/va

"Dennis Carpenter, a clinical psychologist called by the defense, disagreed. Studies have shown, he said, that castration sharply reduces the risk of repeat offenses. One Danish study suggested the rate of repeat offenses dropped from 80 percent to 2.3 percent after surgical castration.

"I think it can be helpful," said Berlin, who testified for Jenkins in 2004. "I wouldn't want to say it's a guarantee or a panacea, but there's no doubt that in sex offenders, sexual interest is greatly diminished by castration."

I don't think that Castration is a perfect fix, there's nothing perfect in this world anyway, but I think it would be a big step forward. I think that in cases where small children were targeted, it should be Castration + removal of the penis. Leave the bastard with a little catheter, and let him buy diapers for the rest of his miserable existence.

Of course, if execution is to be the standard, we should at least harvest some organs out of the deal.
 

ayabe

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2005
7,449
0
0
Originally posted by: palehorse74
Originally posted by: ayabe
Therapy actually enables sociopaths in my opinion.
you got that from The Sopranos, didnt ya? lol.. ;)

No, was that in a recent episode? I haven't watched any of the new ones yet, been on the road too much. **NO SPOILERS PLEASE** I've been doing pretty well avoiding hearing about what has happened. TIVO FTW.

I'm basing my opinion on sociopaths that I know, who have been in therapy for years, aren't getting any better and/or have perfected their craft to a very high degree while in therapy.

None of these people are child molesters mind you, but I think the proof is in the pudding as far as the recidivism rate goes for pedo's.
 

babylon5

Golden Member
Dec 11, 2000
1,363
1
0
Why just pedophiles? Thieves, School Bullies, Corporate corruption, scam artist . Kill them all!
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,095
513
126
I'd have to see the study. In every psych class they talked about sexual abuse, sexual assault, and rape. Studies show it isnt a sexual gratification but a power and abuse issue.

Take away their dink or ability to be aroused and they will use a weapon. One thing that was noted was forcing these guys to take hormone suppression drugs didnt curve their ambitions. This is the same affect you get from castration.
 

Ryan

Lifer
Oct 31, 2000
27,519
2
81
Originally posted by: steppinthrax
Originally posted by: CycloWizard
Yet another shortcoming of our nation in 'treating' those with mental disorders. It's too expensive to treat/institutionalize them, so just fry 'em. :(

We have plenty of people in the world. Why should we concentrate on a few. It's like if I baby one blade of grass on a one acre lawn.

Wow - talk about little value for life. What if you were one of those blades?
 

ayabe

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2005
7,449
0
0
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: ayabe
Originally posted by: Genx87
Castration does nothing. Talk about a waste of taxpayers money. Pedophilia(sp) and rape are pyschological issues, not sexual.

Sure it's a disincentive that's less severe than death, that's better than what we currently have - which amounts to talking to a shrink and promising not to be bad. Therapy actually enables sociopaths in my opinion.

It's also cheaper than locking them up or killing them and it might help suppress their 'urges'.

Well i think it would be cheaper yet if we simply tossed the jerk behind bars until he died. Toss him into general and chances are what our judicial system cant do, the prison population will.

As for castration, you might as well threaten to lop off a finger or leg. You will get the same disincentive value to one of these sickos.

But in a lot of prisons they don't toss them into general population, they are separated for their 'protection'.

That's crap.

As an aside - I don't think anyone should receive special protection, Paris Hilton for example, she's going to be into an isolation wing. If anyone ever needed a good shanking it's her.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,055
48,054
136
Originally posted by: steppinthrax
Originally posted by: CycloWizard
Yet another shortcoming of our nation in 'treating' those with mental disorders. It's too expensive to treat/institutionalize them, so just fry 'em. :(

We have plenty of people in the world. Why should we concentrate on a few. It's like if I baby one blade of grass on a one acre lawn.

You are either very young, or very ignorant.
 

Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
20,736
1,377
126
Originally posted by: ayabe
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: ayabe
Originally posted by: Genx87
Castration does nothing. Talk about a waste of taxpayers money. Pedophilia(sp) and rape are pyschological issues, not sexual.

Sure it's a disincentive that's less severe than death, that's better than what we currently have - which amounts to talking to a shrink and promising not to be bad. Therapy actually enables sociopaths in my opinion.

It's also cheaper than locking them up or killing them and it might help suppress their 'urges'.

Well i think it would be cheaper yet if we simply tossed the jerk behind bars until he died. Toss him into general and chances are what our judicial system cant do, the prison population will.

As for castration, you might as well threaten to lop off a finger or leg. You will get the same disincentive value to one of these sickos.

But in a lot of prisons they don't toss them into general population, they are separated for their 'protection'.

That's crap.

As an aside - I don't think anyone should receive special protection, Paris Hilton for example, she's going to be into an isolation wing. If anyone ever needed a good shanking it's her.

Don't you mean shagging? Or maybe that's been done before :confused:
 

tomywishbone

Golden Member
Oct 24, 2006
1,401
0
0
Originally posted by: steppinthrax
Originally posted by: BoberFett
Death penalty for pedophiles

Apparently we're going to keep moving the bar lower for capital punishment. As horrific a crime as child rape is, does is really require the death penalty? Is raping a child really that much worse than raping an adult? Will a 17 year old with a 15 year old girlfriend in a state where minors can face the death penalty find themselves strapped to a gurney?

On top of the death penalty being an irreversible punishment, and all too frequently found to have been sentenced upon innocent people, this seems like we're going the wrong direction.

I'm very for the death penalty. I believe a lot of things should be punishable with death. That is the problem in this country right now. Everybody gets a good attorney and gets off or does good behavior in prison and gets time reduction. Does a plea bargin for information and gets off. In China for example if your caught with drugs it's the death penalty. China dosen't pussyfy their death penalty like the U.S. does. They use a firing range execution style in public display. That will teach people not to break the law.

I do also suggest persons who show psychologically that they are true pedophiles should be medically casterated. In some situations it dosen't have to be proven but if at least they perform the criminal act of pedophilia they should be chemically casterated or physically. I also believe in branded people like you would do cattle so everyone knows you were a pedophilia.


:laugh: Good one.
 

ayabe

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2005
7,449
0
0
Originally posted by: Genx87
I'd have to see the study. In every psych class they talked about sexual abuse, sexual assault, and rape. Studies show it isnt a sexual gratification but a power and abuse issue.

Take away their dink or ability to be aroused and they will use a weapon. One thing that was noted was forcing these guys to take hormone suppression drugs didnt curve their ambitions. This is the same affect you get from castration.

But pedophilia isn't always about rape - I think we need to separate that in this instance. It's the attraction to young girls/boys that is driving this behavior. Like these To Catch a Predator shows, none of those guys were going there looking to physically rape.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,095
513
126
Originally posted by: ayabe
Originally posted by: Genx87
I'd have to see the study. In every psych class they talked about sexual abuse, sexual assault, and rape. Studies show it isnt a sexual gratification but a power and abuse issue.

Take away their dink or ability to be aroused and they will use a weapon. One thing that was noted was forcing these guys to take hormone suppression drugs didnt curve their ambitions. This is the same affect you get from castration.

But pedophilia isn't always about rape - I think we need to separate that in this instance. It's the attraction to young girls/boys that is driving this behavior. Like these To Catch a Predator shows, none of those guys were going there looking to physically rape.

It is still a power thing, while they may not physically beat the piss out of the kid, they are exerting power over them due to their age difference.